"Daddy dropped me on the floor"

[gladiolus]

I have been having some problems with my dh - we're going to relationship counselling after he admitted he needed help. He can be verbally abusive and manipulative, twisting my words to mean something other. I can give as good as I get in return, but I would rather not have to, KWIM?

I've been on the verge of leaving him so many times, but this takes the biscuit.

My youngest dd is 4.5 and when I met my dh she was not quite 1, so she thinks of him as her daddy. She can be very willful and is testing her boundaries at the moment.

Last night she was being an absolute PITA, refusing to put her colouring pencils away at bedtime and basically having a tantrum. After we had given her repeated chances and warnings, my dh finally picked her up bodily and carried her upstairs, saying she was going to bed with no story and no song as punishment for her behaviour.

So far, no problem, she really was being a little madam and I had smacked her bottom. I know some people don't agree with smacking, but that's another discussion.

Anyway, when they got upstairs to her bedroom I heard a big thump and a cry from her. I am familiar with my dd's cries, this one was her "You hurt me cry" but her "I fell over and hurt myself" cry, which is totally different. I hear the "you hurt me" cry when I smack her bottom and when I accidentally pull her hair when I'm brushing it (she has very long curly hair and it gets knotty easily - I do try not to pull but now and again it happens).

The point is, this one was definitely the "you hurt me" cry, it had that undertone of accusatory aggrievedness in it.

My first thought was, "OMG, he's dropped her on the floor," as that is exactly what it sounded like. Then he started yelling at her to get undressed. She still needs a it of help getting undressed so I went upstairs to help her as it wasn't fair for him to yell at her to do something she can't do.

So, we got her to bed and she went quite docilely, no protests at all.

After, I asked him plainly what the noise was I had heard and he said she had thrown herself to the floor after he'd put her down.

But this morning when I was getting her ready for school, I didn't put words in her mouth at all, I simply asked her, "Last night, when Daddy took you upstairs, what happened?"

And she instantly replied, "Daddy dropped me on the floor."

I know sometimes children can be aggravating and she really was at her worst last night, but this is really too much, isn't it?

I haven't spoken to him yet. I took her to nursery this morning and went for a run and he's still in bed.

I agree that mistakes were made last night and I have wondered if the problems in our relationship are causing her to act up. We don't argue in front of the kids, but they pick up the vibe.

However, I don't think expecting a 4yo to pick her her toys at bedtime is unreasonable - she does it at nursery.

He has never been violent at all before, his temper comes out in sarcasm, rather than fists.

Your poor DD

No matter what any of my DC have done ( and your DD wasn't even that bad!)
I would always comfort them if scared/hurt.
I see it as unconditional love- all DC are entitled to it IMO.

Look, smacking didn't work and it caused more problems instead of solving them.
I can't urge you strongly enough to try a different aproch.

I do find it a worry that a little girl was dropped or thrown and neither of her parents saw fit to give her a cuddle all because of some bloody colouring pencils and a bit of a tantrum.

You can turn This around and we all make a mess of this parenting lark at times

Irrespective of what has happened you should never withhold affection from a child. DSS2 is 4 and I completely understand how utterly infuriating they can be at that age but love should be unconditional. Knowing that we can make mistakes but are still worthy of love it vital to good mental health as an adult.

I agree with the stay calm (I know it's difficult) and try to praise her whenever she is obedient, thoughtful, kind, make alot of her good behaviour.

You need to have a united front. You need to be uncompromising about bed time but I would not take away her story - give her a chance to build a good relationship with you, make her look forward to that time. Tell her you are really, really looking forward to reading with her.

As for smacking. I don't do it. I think smacking is more about the parent venting their feelings than about disciplining the child.

I did say that we both gave her a kiss and a hug once she was in bed :(

dontbeat yourselr up op.
today is another day and tonight's bedtime will be better.

do you ask her to Help you tidy up?

And so what if she doesn't pick up her toys. Do it with her. But the battle is getting her to go to bed calmly and for that you need a gentler approach. She's probably tired.

I have certainly picked up my eldest and plonked her on the bed when she was having a tantrum, she didn't have many, but when she did (til aged about 6/7 so quite late), she'd really be out of control and the best thing for all concerned would be to place her (as gently as possible) in her room and shut the door leaving her to calm down.

As she got older, I'd say 'go in another room and calm down' as carrying her wouldn't be an option, but I have carried a child out (probably only a few times in her life) and if she wriggled, she might well have fallen/fell off the bed/hit something. I think this is what may have happened, unless you have some reason to believe your husband would deliberately drop her (which I don't see from what you have written, unless there's something else you aren't mentioning).

However, it doesn't sound very calm and very nice in your house at the moment, obviously the smacking doesn't work or she would have gone to bed nicely. Is there a way to lower the emotional tone all round (e.g. you perhaps doing relaxation) so that everything is less fraught? I'd also delegate one parent to do the routine and try as be as calm as possible, so if she's rude or resistant, then just simply put her in the bed and say 'night night' without all the drama.

I don't agree with punishing by withdrawing bedtime stories etc if at all possible, because it's at the worst time of day, when everyone is tired and it just ends up in a big fight. I would get her to bed asap when she kicks off and be reassuring but not involved, once they are having a tantrum then reasoning is out of the window and I'd just give space for them to calm down.

I do praise her when she is good. Dh doesn't - he doesn't agree with praising children "for doing what they're supposed to anyway."

But I think he is quite harsh as a parent. Our disagreement on parenting is one of our problems, and one of the reasons we're going to counselling - I feel he is very hard on the girls a lot of the time and he feels I let them get away with too much.

Ach I know it's easy to give other people advice. I have three very close in age and am not above banging their tea down on the table and shouting occasionally. It's not easy, is it.

Relaxation? What's that? I would love to have time for some relaxation.

Normally it's always me who does the bedtime routine anyway.

It's not calm and nice in our house at the moment at all - I wish I weren't here :(

We have to make a game of tidying with DS2. "let's see who can get the most" or "how many are there? let's count them all" type things. It's easier if we're doing it together.

At 4.4, she is probably exhausted at night, I wouldn't worry too much about picking up toys (yes, in an ideal world this would happen, but she's tired and exhausted after a long day), start the bedtime routine really early, praise her for everything she does right (even a star chart with a star for 'get nightie on without fussing' or 'brush teeth' might help her) and if all else fails and she kicks off, get her in the bed asap so she can calm down!

I do know if I am stressed it affects the children, as I don't diffuse situations or walk away if I'm stressed, so a small incident will blow up. Getting your stress levels down will help, as will working on your relationship but don't beat yourself up if you are not perfect.

My dd has been known to lift her legs just as I am putting her down so she lands in the floor with a thump. It is then of course my fault for dropping her just like its my fault when in a temper she goes for
me and I happen to move

takes deep breath

Well, at least my whole "why did you drop dd on the floor" method of dealing with situation has had a rethink. It didn't occur to me that might have wriggled away.

I really didn't want to think that he might have deliberately dropped her, but honestly that's what it sounded like.

And of course if he had, I couldn't have stayed.

Dealing with the bedtime problems is something we have to sort out, but this was basically a question of "should I leave him and accuse him of child abuse" and that has drained away somewhat now.

Thank you.

Do you give DD a couple of warnings when there's a change in activity? So, for example telling her she has 10 minutes left until tidy up time, then another warning at 5 minutes and 2 minutes. Gives her chance to finish what she's doing and doesn't spring tidy up time on her. My 5 yo hates suddenly being told to change activity or to tidy up, giving plenty of warning avoids a lot of emotional meltdowns and tantrums.

Have you tried ignoring the bad and praising the good? There are loads of parenting books you could read through for ideas.

Last night sounds horrible, but you can move on from it- unless your H has flung your DD to the floor deliberately in which case he should be leaving. Sadly you might never know exactly what happened

Hi OP,

I too have a strong willed, spirited 4 yr old and have found the key is consistant calm, it takes the wind right out of her sails! I start the tidy up request about 15 minutes before I need to and then just nag her, the deal in our house is she tidies it away or it goes in the bin! We've only ever had to bin something once.

There are times when I could really lose the plot and scream blue murder at her but at the end of the day she is just a child and screaming/smacking whatever still doesn't get the job done imo.

Last night happened, treat today as a new day and if I were you I would be trying new tactics. You will eventually find one that works without the need for everyone getting so angry, it's not good for any of you on a regular basis, makes the evenings miserable for you all.

Oops sorry, Xposts.

Is the counselling helping at all? Your H doesn't sound very nice and you sound very stressed out which is understandable, but the kids will be feeding off this atmosphere and playing up more than usual.

If your parenting styles are very different then it could be causing the children to be confused.

Yes, we do do the 10 minute, 5 minute warnings.

I understand that she is just testing the boundaries, but she just keeps on testing - she hasn't figured out that they aren't going to move.

Last night was fraught but she was wonderful this morning.

I just heard dh get up - gtg :)

She fell on the floor and then he started yelling at her to get undressed? An you allowed that to happen?

Maybe, in 30 years time, you'll realize the damage this abusive dad has done to her, when she grows up and tells you (like I did to my mum). My mum now feels crap because she didn't stop my dad behaving like a twat in lots of occasions.

Your DH is the adult, tell him to control himself.

I do actually agree with Mmebovary that if the other parent has lost control, even if the fall was accidental, that you should step in and tell them to step away.

However, I think everyone had lost control last night, judging by the slapping/general shouting etc and so the issue is for everyone to react more calmly, making it easier to know when to step in (and I have done that very occasionally to my husband, and very occasionally he's told me to step back and he'll deal with something if steam is coming out of my ears).

My first thought was that she struggled and he dropped her accidentally. Which would still elicit a 'you hurt me' yell. It's interesting though that this didn't occur to you.

I hope the counselling goes well for the two of you OP because I'm not liking what you are saying about your DH. Personally, no matter what else happens between DH and I, we must be on the same page about parenting. Not being on the same page would be a dealbreaker for me because quite simply, we wouldn't be doing our best by our children if we weren't.

You need to impress on his mind how important this is to you, these are YOUR children and they are your first priority.

OP I too think he dropped her on purpose having read your subsequent posts .

People who say kids shouldn't be praised for doing what they are supposed to are ime authoritarian arseholes and need telling so .

He sounds thoroughly unpleasant and I wonder how your girls are going to deal with men and relationships when they are older having had this person as their male role model. You sound like you are on to it though to a certain extent. Think you need to explore this in counselling definitely.

I think you sound lovely OP. However it does sound like your husband is an extra child in the situation rather than an extra adult. You obviously know this and recognise it as a problem hence the counselling you mention.

Having to teach the other parent how to parent and explain that "she's a child" so cut her some slack must be exhausting for you. It also sounds as if your dd is picking up on this and feeling maybe bit insecure which is why she tests the boundaries.

Personally I'd have to take over the situation until the husband is capable of taking a child's point of view on board. He sounds slightly resentful that children take up his "thinking time" etc. not just the physical time.

That's the real reason children are exhausting not the physical stuff it's the responsibility and us being the lower priority etc.

I wouldn't want to expose my dd to this husband currently until he understands that his lack of praise is something his children will be physically craving from him. If they can't get it then naughty behaviour certainly gets attention doesn't it?

Not suggesting you leave him by the way. But I'd truly recognise maybe I'm the only adult in the situation. Spell it out to him what needs to change about his parenting style or believe me in a few years you won't even want to be with him - you'll just see a huge sulky kid standing there instead of a husband - that's what he's behaving like to me.