"Daddy dropped me on the floor"

[gladiolus]

I have been having some problems with my dh - we're going to relationship counselling after he admitted he needed help. He can be verbally abusive and manipulative, twisting my words to mean something other. I can give as good as I get in return, but I would rather not have to, KWIM?

I've been on the verge of leaving him so many times, but this takes the biscuit.

My youngest dd is 4.5 and when I met my dh she was not quite 1, so she thinks of him as her daddy. She can be very willful and is testing her boundaries at the moment.

Last night she was being an absolute PITA, refusing to put her colouring pencils away at bedtime and basically having a tantrum. After we had given her repeated chances and warnings, my dh finally picked her up bodily and carried her upstairs, saying she was going to bed with no story and no song as punishment for her behaviour.

So far, no problem, she really was being a little madam and I had smacked her bottom. I know some people don't agree with smacking, but that's another discussion.

Anyway, when they got upstairs to her bedroom I heard a big thump and a cry from her. I am familiar with my dd's cries, this one was her "You hurt me cry" but her "I fell over and hurt myself" cry, which is totally different. I hear the "you hurt me" cry when I smack her bottom and when I accidentally pull her hair when I'm brushing it (she has very long curly hair and it gets knotty easily - I do try not to pull but now and again it happens).

The point is, this one was definitely the "you hurt me" cry, it had that undertone of accusatory aggrievedness in it.

My first thought was, "OMG, he's dropped her on the floor," as that is exactly what it sounded like. Then he started yelling at her to get undressed. She still needs a it of help getting undressed so I went upstairs to help her as it wasn't fair for him to yell at her to do something she can't do.

So, we got her to bed and she went quite docilely, no protests at all.

After, I asked him plainly what the noise was I had heard and he said she had thrown herself to the floor after he'd put her down.

But this morning when I was getting her ready for school, I didn't put words in her mouth at all, I simply asked her, "Last night, when Daddy took you upstairs, what happened?"

And she instantly replied, "Daddy dropped me on the floor."

I know sometimes children can be aggravating and she really was at her worst last night, but this is really too much, isn't it?

I haven't spoken to him yet. I took her to nursery this morning and went for a run and he's still in bed.

"People who say kids shouldn't be praised for doing what they are supposed to are ime authoritarian arseholes and need telling so."

Actually, there's evidence that praising children does them no more favours than shouting at them.

OP you sound like you could use a different approach than sticks and carrots. Try reading Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.

But I wouldn't want him (clearly abusive) around my child. Or you, the way you're behaving right now, but if you sort him out you should find it easier to get back on track.

www.amazon.co.uk/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486/ref=cm_rdp_product

There is always one that starts name calling, while trying to seem righteous. There is nothing smug about telling the op both her and her dh may need counselling, regardless of the state of their marriage. This isn't just an abusive man its an abusive marriage/ household. shall we praise the op to admitting she has a problem? perhaps. But she needs to a actually do something about it. It seems alot of people refuse to acknowledge that smacking the child is down to the op (as she admits herself), alot seem more comfortable to blame it on the dh even though the op doesn't. it also seems alot people are ignoring the fact that a man would be chewed up and spat put by mners if he came here saying he smacked his child as de had wound him up, but you are trying to give the op the same excuse.

I really don't think this man is "right". By that i mean right in the head. He has serious issues which it is awful to inflict on the children. I really think he has to go!

The posters on here saying others are going OTT, etc., should consider one thing: if we completely remove the 'did he drop her?' thing out of the equation, this is STILL a very toxic, dysfunctional and abusive household for the OP but moreover her daughters to be in.

PS sc2987 - that thing about praising concerns excessive praising, ie telling your child they are a genius every time they get their own socks on, etc. It doesn't concern normal, appropriate acknowledgement, ie telling them well done for getting an A at school.

Agree with everything mathanxiety says.

OP, you said, first thing, that you have been ready to leave before, but somehow haven't. Can you see how far into the pit you are falling? It will get harder and harder to go, so if you can do it now and get your children out of this abusive and horrible atmosphere it will be so much easier than if you wait until some other - and much worse - crisis occurs.

You need space to get your head together, your children desperately, desperately need to be elsewhere.

You know you can do it, you know you will OK. You don't even have to stop seeing him, not completely, but you do need to put distance between yourself and him. This way you will not be manipulated, you can parent sensibly, you can make your kids feel safe and loved and happy.

I'll say this once and once only and will carry on disregarding your posts: the other posters aren't unaware of the points the repetitive bunch are making over and over again.

However, contrary to your belief we're not a bunch of dimwits and we've disregarded your points as you don't seem to have anything else to say do you?

Expansive thinking is what's required in any discussion and you only seem capable of hammering away over one issue ffs. And then repeating it.

I've said it as nicely as I can but please don't think people are ignoring "your facts" etc we just choose not to engage with repetitive (did I mention repetitive?) comments that are of no use to anyone other than to make you feel good at your own outrage.

Honestly credit other people with some intelligence.

Agree with mathanxiety

gladiolus

I think you've been very brave and honest on this thread, but your children are also having to be very brave when they should be enjoying a loving, stable home without having to live with fear and anxiety. At your DD's age, most "tantrums" are caused by tiredness, hunger or anxiety.

Just like the "overnight success" which comes after years of hard work, a "Eureka moment" comes after a lot of thought.

You have obviously been giving the matter a lot of thought well before your "Eureka moment" when your child was dropped/thrown on the floor (it really doesn't matter which) and you came to this thread seeking affirmation that your instincts and suspicions are correct. Well, they are.

There doesn't have to be "one more time" before you make up your mind. It may be something you remember with unending regret for not having acted sooner.

mathanxiety your posts have bene right on the button so far, this especially.

"The OP is also caught up in trying to make the H approve of her. He has set the parenting bar at a place where she is forced to override her mothering instincts in order to keep him sweet and perhaps (best case scenario in the delusion) prevent the sort of violence towards the children she feels he is capable of -- hence the smacking. It was supposed to make the DD comply without the intervention of the H, and to keep the H off her back for her allegedly soft parenting."

And, to the person who said that much thought doesn't go into losing your temper, you're right too.

It's not actual thought at the time, but I do intervene and discipline dd when I know she is doing something dh doesn't approve of, even if it's something I wouldn't otherwise bother with, because if I don't, then he will. And my way is generally preferable.

-------

I told him I was leaving him this evening.

This morning we had an argument over a sweetie wrapper ffs. Apparently dd21 had put it in the wrong bin. I said she was probably emptying out her school bag, as there were other bits on there to. She had put the rubbish in the bin in her bedroom and he went on and on about she should have brought the bag downstairs and emptied it into the kitchen bin so he didn't have to go upstairs and empty her bin himself (bless him - it must be so much hard work!)

Apparently we're all selfish and lazy because we don't help him do the bins. Hello - does he offer to help me every morning when I get up at 7 to get two kids ready and off to school? No, he lies in bed till 11 and has the cheek to call ME selfish and lazy.

So, tbh, the bin incident was one straw on the groaning camel of our marriage, but the final one came later.

It was my dd1's 11th birthday today. Her party is on Saturday but we had her favourite dinner and I bought her a special gift cake and we had ice cream. We had a little candle ceremony while dh grumped in the kitchen doing the washing up and ignoring us (he later said he hadn't come in the join in the candle ceremony and singing of Happy Birthday as he hadn't been invited). I offered him cake and ice-cream after but he declined both with very bad grace.

She told me later that for her birthday wish when she blew the candles out, she wished we could move out.

So we are!

dd21 should have read dd1 - I don't have 21 children!

Good for you gladiolus. Have you got people around you to support you through this transition?

Hopefully it will be possible to stay here while I find us somewhere to live. If he makes it impossible, we can squeeze into my parents' house for a bit. They have inflatable beds the girls have stayed on before and I can sleep on the sofa if necessary.

Unfortunately my best friend's dad has just had a heart attack so she is obviously concerned with him right now, but my sister and my niece will help out if necessary I think.

I've lurked on this as I didn't like the way the thread turned but OP now that you know both your girls are deeply unhappy with their step father, you know that you're making the right decision, for them, but also for you.

You are doing absolutely the right thing. Whatever hardship it causes, it will not be as damaging as having to live with this man.

Take courage, you will put things right. Your children will respect that, and appreciate it all the more as they get older.

It may be a long haul - come back if you need help and advice.

May I recommend this for some preparatory reading:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Read everything you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and try to get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor. Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance)

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also find family law solicitors here:

www.lawsociety.org.uk/areasoflaw/view=areasoflawdetails.law?AREAOFLAW=Family%20law&AREAOFLAWID=36

Check your eligibility for Legal Aid here:

legalaidcalculator.justice.gov.uk/calculators/eligiCalc?execution=e1s1

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if any recommendations or feedback exists.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question. If you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

static.advicenow.org.uk/files/benefits-and-livingtogether-2010-11-1161.pdf

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you can, and take copies. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Child Maintenance Calculator:

www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Further advice and support

www.maypole.org.uk/

www.womensaid.org.uk/

www.gingerbread.org.uk/

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships
(Re Shelter, if you are not in England follow the link at the top)

You are doing the right thing, hope everything goes well on the road ahead.
What sort of dad misses out on their daughters bday candle celebrations to do the washing up?
Cant believe his stupidy over one sweetie wrapper either , he should have just put it in the bin & forgot about it instead of droning on about it.
You will one day find someone who is right for you & can treat you and your dcs right until then, take care of yourself and your dcs do not allow this man to continue his manipulative behaviour.
Never once look back x

Why is he in bed til 11 - does he work night shifts?

OP - I too am glad to hear that you have made a decision. What a sad life your DD1 is leading, what a thing to have to wish for when you are 11. You say you thought that you had failed at relationships - well her self-esteem about relationships is risking being at rock bottom before she even starts because of what she had been through. It's actually worrying what lengths this might make her go to when she starts having relationships to get a parter's attention.

I suspect that your DD2 may become a lot easier when stepfather is out of her life but if she doesn't, do seek parenting help. I don't say this to criticise you - as you say, you are at a loss at how to cope with her sometimes and there is no shame in seeking advice of others who have been through this themselves and learnt ways of making things work. She has spent most of her little life exposed to the strain of your relationship and this punishing man who needs to win (as came out in your counselling session) - once she gets to stop battling him she may settle.

I have been lurking on this thread and am so relieved (no other word for it) to read your recent posts. Make no mistake, you are doing the right thing. Your daughters will love you even more than they already do. :)

What an amazing, helpful post from Olgaga as well.

Gladiolus, I think you have made the right decision and commend your courage.

For the immediate future, be prepared for him to try to wheedle you back -- hopefully you will be able to tell him you regret things have turned out this way and that he will have a happy life (without you) and then put down the phone, or turn it off, or shut the door (you get the idea). The less chance he gets to talk with you the better for you. You will have moments when you doubt yourself, but please don't panic and stay strong.

You should also be prepared for some extra stroppiness from the DDs but you should not interpret this as unhappiness. They will be a bit like fish out of water for a bit as they adjust and they may test you to see where the new boundaries lie. I suggest doing a good deal of family things together, maybe curl up together on a couch and watch films together, read aloud, etc. Take every opportunity you can find to be 'silly' together -- put on some music and dance, etc. Take the time to do your DDs' nails. Count to ten when you are frazzled. If things are really getting to you, count backwards from 113 to 99.

-- Follow Olgaga's excellent advice.

olgaga that is a spectacularly helpful post

OP you are doing the right thing. Expect the begging, pleadin, wheedling and empty promises now. You will have to be resolute, or find yourself back here in a few months time with the same sorry refrain.

Oh thank god!

Olgaga, one of the best and most informative posts ever!

It ought to go on the relationships guide link!

Have you told DD yet?

You absolutely cannot go back on this if you have. She will be devestated if you pick him over her and she will never get over those feelings. I can tell you that from very very bitter experience.

Take care OP. Show your beautiful girls that no one has to settle for such a bad relationship.

Wow, Ive been reading too and to have an epiphany as quickly as you have is pure relief frankly. EXCELLENT!!!! All power to your elbow- my Mum moved out with us when younger for different reasons (we were around the same age as your children) and you don't realise the pressure a situation can put children under. Now's the chance to reverse the damage and it can be done.

Olgaga- what a star. Every woman should know these things and well done on a very helpful post.

Best of luck- the sun is shining on you!xx

Well done, OP. I agree with the poster who said make it clear to your DD that it is your decision, and you are the adult responsible for it.

Undoubtedly he will try and get you back, and probably say some very nasty things at some point. Ignore, ignore, ignore. And don't let him try and set you against your DDs, which he will also probably try. Your DDs may show very challenging behaviour through all this - it is a big upheaval for them, but don't let that make you think for a second that he was right about them.

You are doing a huge thing now which will transform life for you and your DDs, I am so pleased for all of you.

Oh well done Gladiolus! You know you will be so much happier.

"to have an epiphany as quickly as you have is pure relief frankly"

Tbh, this is not quickly, it's been coming for a long, long time. But this is the first time I've told him I'm leaving and felt nothing but relief. The other times I was sad and full of second thoughts.

I asked dd2 again this morning about the 'dropping' incident. I asked her if she thought he dropped her on purpose, or if she wriggled away from him, and she said on purpose, and I asked her to show me what he did with a dolly and it looked very much like dropping.

Then I asked her how that made her feel and she said, "Sad."

So either she is lying, or he did drop her.

And, no, there is no reason for him to lie in bed till 11. He doesn't work nights.