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Original poster

sex while asleep

734 replies

silver999 · 05/05/2012 22:18

my partner woke me up by having sex with me, I was really shocked at what was happening and not sure what to do or think about what has happened.
I told my friend but she just laughed about it, any advice? thanks.

OP posts:
nutellaontoast · 10/05/2012 16:18

So.... Jinx.

Basically, you don't believe women who say they are raped because other people play sex games? Can't you see the thoughless lack of logic, thought, or human empathy you are displaying?

You think one anecdote about a false allegation justifies your beliefs that the victim is responsible for their rape, that prior consent is the same thing as current consent, that (ffs) unconscious or shocked or coerced victims of rape somehow consented. I am actually sickened.

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 16:33

Jinx I don't know if you're still reading but the example you posted about the boy at the sports club has nothing to do with consent. The girl did consent and then lied about it. Consent and lying are two different things.

What you said about consent when you answered my question makes no sense. To quote you:
"But ... boundaries between couples in a relationship vary greatly and what is acceptable to one couple may not be acceptable to another. Depending on where the boundaries in a relationship are and in relationships where people play "games" it may not be rape, unless one party clearly says NO or makes it clear in a way their partner can understand that they are not happy with what is happening to them. I think this is where consent is not always straight forward. (ducks to avoid the handbags)."

Consent has nothing to do with what individual couples do or don't like. Consent is straightforward - either the person wants to do it and consents or doesn't want to do it and doesn't consent. That applies to every single thing a couple does. If the couple likes to tie each other up, then consent isn't an issue, they're just doing something they enjoy. If a couple has never discussed tying each other up and one ties the other up and the other person enjoys it and participates, consent isn't an issue, put the partner who did the tying took a massive risk. If a couple has never discussed tying each other up or one partner has said they don't like it, and the other partner goes ahead and does it anyway, then that's assault because consent hasn't been given. It's as straightforward as that. If one person doesn't want something to happen and the other person goes ahead and does it anyway, that's assault/rape. It's very very simple.

I didn't want to have sex that night with my boyfriend. He didn't know whether I wanted to have sex or not because he started when I was asleep. He didn't obtain consent. I could have enjoyed it and participated, in which case it wouldn't have been rape and the massive risk he took would have paid off. As it stood I didn't enjoy it and didn't participate in which case it was rape. If we had agreed in advance that he would wake me up with sex, then he would have had consent and there wouldn't have been a problem, unless I had withdrawn consent and he didn't listen. Remember that even if a person does give consent at one point they are still entitled to withdraw it at any time and if the other person persists regardless then it is rape/assault.

CatitaInaHatita · 10/05/2012 18:59

As a rape victim I am not hurt or offended by anything you have written Jinx. I am, however, incredibly sad that you think that your views are common and widespread. I think views like yours are the ones that frighten daughters from telling their parents about being raped; they make them frightened to go to the police; and they make them think it was somehow their fault. As the blog I linked to makes clear, it's views like yours that also protect and enable serial rapists to rape again and again with impunity.

As I said earlier. Only rape apologists think that consent is problematic. Only rape apologists think that he default setting for women is to want sex unless they say otherwise. I really can't think of any other situation in which you wanting something is so taken for granted that it is supposed you should say no to avoid having to do it. It's really quite basic manners.

Finally, only rape apologists are concerned with pointing out that sometimes women lie about being raped. So bloody what? More people lie about car crime than about sexual assault. People lie. And you know what? Rapists lie too in order to avoid being caught. The only reason to mention an example of someone who lied about sexual assault in the context of the present discussion is to imply that the incidence of false reporting is so high that it means that the accusor's word should routinely doubted. Which, as the evidence presented before shows, is not true. It is merely another rape myth used to minimise rape and denigrate victims.

For all this, i am of the opinion that all your posts have amounted to defence of rape and rapists. I don't understand why anyone could be happy with that.

CatitaInaHatita · 10/05/2012 18:59

"I am incredibly sad that views like yours are common and widespread."
Apologies.

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 19:02

Well said, Catita.

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:08

Very well said!

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 19:09

well said Catita.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/05/2012 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 10/05/2012 19:21

Not sure why I'm posting this, and probably should have name-changed, but anyway.... When I was 16, I was on a ferry with my parents, coming back from holiday. I went to explore the ferry on my own and saw a group of men (prob mid-20s) in the bar area. One kept smiling over at me and I smiled back. He came over and was very charming, very flirty and very complimentary. I'd never had a boyfriend and was pretty naive really. He suggested we went somewhere more private, which I agreed to, and next thing we were kissing in a cabin. I can honestly say, looking back at my 16 year old self, that I didn't know what to do or how to get myself out of the situation. He took my clothes off and had sex with me. I didn't shout or struggle, I just lay there, and really wasn't sure what was happening Blush. I bled a bit and he said (and I can remember this years after the event) "wow, were you a virgin?" I also remember that he never once asked if I wanted to have sex. Having read this thread, I'm now Confused. I don't know what happened to me - was it rape? IT's a horrible feeling, tha'ts for sure.

AnyFucker · 10/05/2012 19:30

< applauds cat and throws Thanks at her feet >

Avon, I am really sorry that happened to you. You were raped. Your vulnerability was taken advantage of. That man was a despicable person.

Puffinsaresmall · 10/05/2012 19:36

Avon - thank you for posting your story. I felt like you for a long time. I'm going to muddy the waters now of my story and I too should probably have namechanged, but I saw the 23 year old again. Voluntarily Sad

I wasn't really sure what had happened that night, was too drunk and naive to work it out unfortunately. When he asked me out on a date a few days later I agreed. Again lied to parents about where I was going. He parked up somewhere in broad daylight and did it again. I didn't scream or shout. I liked him and didn't want to embarrass myself or him by acting like that Hmm I had no idea how to diffuse the situation. He was 7 years older and I was totally immature and in awe of him. I did say no but he didn't listen and I just sort of 'let him' get on with it.

Did he take advantage of a young girl? YES. Did he rape me the first time? YES I was too drunk to consent, not that I had chance to anyway. Did he rape me the second time? I don't know. I said no but I was there voluntarily, I could have hit him or screamed or got out the car maybe, but I didn't. I've never really got my head round it all and I feel sick and ashamed now when I think about it Sad

Puffinsaresmall · 10/05/2012 19:38

Can feel tears coming now. Not sure why, maybe because I have two daughters and nearly every woman I know has a story similar to mine or Avons? And everyone struggles to call it rape, they call it taken advantage of or somesuch. But really its rape isn't it?

AvonCallingBarksdale · 10/05/2012 19:43

I am crying now. THank you, AnyFucker for writing it so clearly. And Puffinsaresmall, thank you for sharing and for making me think. For a long time I thought I'd been wrong to go to the cabin with him, but I could have gone there naked and he wouldn't have done anything if he'd been a decent man, would he?

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 19:43

these stories are so Sad and it makes me so cross for the young women we were, and that we blamed ourselves for making poor decisions. people think of rape as a man in a dark alley, a struggle, and extreme violence.

I hope that every poster who has had a Hmm moment reading this thread and defended the partner, or thinks that consent is a murky concept re-reads the stories on here.

its always a no, unless you know its a yes.

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:43

YES it is rape. I am so sorry Puffin and Avon. It was NOT your fault. I can remember being tipsy and going to the beach with someone I met. We fumbled but did not have sex, because I did not want to. That was it, because HE WAS NOT A RAPIST.

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 19:44

Avon, unfortunately, you are right. a decent man wouldnt have done that.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 10/05/2012 19:44

And Puffinsaresmall, I'm sorry for what happened to you and to all the other women who have posted on this thread.

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:45

And there is no reason to be ashamed. Why should you be ashamed because someone did something they should NOT have done?

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 19:47

Yes, puffin it is rape. And what happened to you was rape too Avon. I'm sorry that it happened to you both.

We live in a society where sex is something men get from women. In the eyes of a lot of people, such as Larry on this thread for instance and to some extent Jinx, any method by which they get it is fine as long as they don't use outright force. Manipulation, nagging, using a person's naivite against them, taking advantage of the fact that a girl is young and confused and doesn't know how to say no, taking advantage of someone being drugged or drunk, all that is seen as part of the "game." It's fucking awful.

How are you doing, Avon, and you puffin?

Puffinsaresmall · 10/05/2012 19:50

I don't know Porto, was nervous even clicking back on this thread because I thought everyone would be telling me that it wasn't 'proper' rape and how dare I try to align myself with women that had really been raped, rather than the truth that I was just a stupid, tarty, 16 year old who got what she deserved.

Sorry, I have no idea where this is coming from, it was 20 years ago. And quite why I've got all these terrible things in my head (tarty? wtf?) I don't know. Ingrained I think from years of media reports?

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 19:53

puffins, thats really sad.

Sad and Angry

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:53

(((hugs))) all round. No it was NOT your fault. You were not tarty. You did not deserve it. It was your misfortune to meet a rapist. That is all.

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:54

It is positively scary how many women have had similar experiences.

MarysBeard · 10/05/2012 19:54

When I was 17 I went out with an older man and was desperate to lose my virginity to him. Wanted someone who knew what they were doing, was not interested in boys my own age. He repeatedly asked me was I sure, was I ok, I was like "Yes Goddamn it, get on with it!" Anyway we did have sex, and again, he was like "Are you sure, is that ok?" It was great, and we went out for a couple of years.

You see, that's how it should be. It's not rocket science for men to exercise a bit of care and caution is it?

Portofino · 10/05/2012 19:54

At that was directed to Avon too.