Welcome to the Turning Tavern III

[Crushinghard]

A continuation of the TTII thread for women unexpectedly finding themselves attracted to other women.

I'm going to tell her. I can feel it bubbling up. I might even email her or tell her on Skype before she comes back, or wait until she returns. I just can't go on like this, in this weird limbo. I am willing to take the risk of losing the friendship, although I honestly don't think that would happen. Even if it does, a clean break would be easier in the long run than feeling like this for the foreseeable future.

I am slightly tipsy after a few vodka sodas, so I will sign off now and return tomorrow!

Cao I know you aer drunk but I did ask on previous page somewhere, did she not mention your emotional confession so far?? I did say i was amazed at that - I mean you already told her you loved her (and cried! and ran away) so do you really think she didn't understand what yo uwere saying? andshe knows you aer gay too! I think she got the message but it's strange that she is not responding and sort of ignoring it - a bit like my wiq my texts (though tey were nothing like as dramatic and direct as your 'I love you') - she must be thinking how to respond, but to tbh it means she is in a process of her own with her feelings (good) or doesn't feel the same (not great).
outmy I wish yo udidn't disappear regularly! any updates on your wiq (I mean small updates) or how you feel? I'm again going through the usual hell as I'm seeing wiq all weekend till minday. First day she's all smiley and inviting, next day - businesslike and avoiding even chat. Could she be annoyed that I'm not making brave steps? I will either tell her very very soon or I will have to forget it (been imagining this today and it's hell of a pain to push her out of my system). My male friend is saying now that he thinks she s not interested (i.e. can be curious or find it amusing but she had too many chances etc - I say to him that she could also be too cautious, but he's now dismissing it, n=mind you men aer like this they either act or they don;t).

Hi, LikeA. Apologies for the tipsy posts the other night. I was a little tired and emotional.

I was speaking to a mutual friend of mine and WIQ's last night. She is actually the one that originally introduced us, as they met a year ago when the friend (let's call her Sandy) moved to this city. I told Sandy how I feel about WIQ, and she said that she had suspected for a long time, due to all the time we spend together and the way I talk about her.

Sandy was great about it. She knows WIQ semi-well, and they are closer in age than me and WIQ. WIQ has talked to her a lot about her desire to find someone and have a relationship. Sandy told me that she thinks WIQ knows how I feel, but is finding it hard to accept that I am a woman, and she has never been with a woman before. She says I just need to give her time.

Sandy said that I should take solace from the fact that WIQ clearly knows the depth of my feelings, and hasn't freaked out or distanced herself. I have had so much contact with her over the past week, and it's been great. We exchanged really long emails yesterday, and she just sent me some photos of the places she's been visiting.

I'm really glad I talked to Sandy about it. The trouble is, I'm not sure if she has placed ideas in my head now, about how WIQ might feel about me. By all accounts, WIQ is swanning around in her home country without even an inkling of how I feel. She's said in the past that she always finds it impossible to tell when someone likes her, so maybe all these efforts I've been making to communicate with her have gone over her head.

I think "By all accounts" was the wrong turn of phrase there. I meant "For all I know"

Cao, er..have you read my thoughts on your situation in my last post to you? no need to say sorry for being emotional 0 I do the sam on here sometimes but have you read what i said - it's pretty much the same as SAndy said isn't it? I just don;t get it why do you think she didn't get the message, how could she not have? and her reaction I agree with Sandy, which I already mentioned, mainly the fact that she is trying to get her head round it but whether she'll succeed - has to be seen!
outmy, well I did say she was warm and inviting hte first day during I saw her this week - she had a nap on the sofa and when i walked past shewasn't trying to sit up and be more 'proper' whereas normally she is quite formal in comoany - she asked something so i stopime for this' ped andshe was smilling quite a lot during the short chat - she looked really inviting all cosy with the legs on show as she was in a skirt - as usual Ifelt a bit dry-mouthed - I offered her tea which she declined then i walked on, so hat's what i meant maybe she wanted something more and i didn't do it andthen she wa annoyed next day? It's so much like you and your wiq - I bet she thought yo uwre rude walking past and not looking and you thought the same about her (but you still felt things when apperaing to ignore her, didn't you) so it can be that. She's not like that with people generally - although I don't really see her with othres. What I do know she is always up to a longish chat with her children (grown up) on hte phne and the day she was off with me she had a warm happy chat with her child. Also she's like that with close female friends. But with people who aer not close she is not extra friendly or chatty. I'm definitely not in strangers camp, as she is warm to me at times, almost as warm as with closest people, but at other times she distances herself. todau she was nice again and even though I imposed a bit of ca=hat she was vey warm and responsive rather than 'have no this' like the other day. I think she is affected ny hormones she takes (I'm certainly affected at times) as these quite seroius tablets, but also her mood is always good after drinking, and without it it's very hit and miss - she does drink a glass everyday and more socially on some days, so maybe she's dependebnt a bit. She can be hermit like on some days but generally is social. The problem is i can't not get uoset when she is in cold mood.

outmy of course it's good she smiled. I mean it could either be interest (waiting till you move and preparing the ground) or it's just friendly but it ,eans she doersn't hate you obviously! I know friendship is not positive as such (I'm in the same boat!) but at least it;s not anything unpleasant.

outmy, no the drinks with the bloke was my last meeting with her just before we parted. The sofa was this time (I saw her few days in a row). The thing is yes, she could ve been waiting for more, but she could also be just sllepy and not fully in control of her positions on sofa . The htink is I did dither - the offer of tea was just something to say - she could ve said 'yes' couldn't she and prolonged the chat when i made it. She said don't worry instead and she 's about to leave. So what else could i have done? she could have also said she wanted a chat too. Last night i got quite upset as she was short with me after otherwise a very frimedly day (both ways). I really don't know - I think she doesn't like me sometimes, and at others that she is attracted - it's becoming like you and yours!

a piece of news - she is definitely going on dates. I had an opportunity today to find out (no, didn't ask direct even though I was jus tabouorthyt to - as it looks like she is always seeing him on mondays, dressed up again). He is definitely after her and sending 'dirty' messages even though not too bad more cringeworthy - saw something lying around and read a couple of them. I've no idea what her responses aer but it sounds like it hasn't happened yet (iykwim) but sounds like she could get involved at any time as she lets him send these. He's mentioning resistance but also he sounds confident that it won't be for long - oh God! I mean this in itself doesn't mean that she's in love or evenin huge lust, she might enjoy being chased, but I wouldn't know. still my instinct was spot on as i became worried only recently and there we are - I was right, a new bloke. What do you think? my first impulse wasw to let her know how i feel soon as I felt very jelous - but now i think maybe she shoulf try and and maybe not like it so that she comes to me if she ever wanted to? meanwhile tyo continue sending signals?

outmy - just got back home, thanks so much for being there with your responses as I was hoping to read something as my head is 'swimming' a bit with this new info. My first reaction was real panic - that's when i thought 'I must tell her' - now I'm calmer but I'm still not sure what to do best. Your post really helps as you make suggestions with a calm head but any support is nice atm! I'm sure it's a man sendign the messages - what did you mean whether I'm sure! it's far too explicit to be just social, and the fact there aer a few and that she talks to him on the phone and goes out is a fact. You wouldn't believe it but there was another secual message from another guy!! but it was v.brief. This one is obviously still pursuing her, I think it sound like with other things happened already - unless the same guy has two different numbers..I was a bit at how direct some of these were, they aer not too 'unplesant' but it's all very sexual rather than lovey dovey, although sort of respectful. I mean he may feel more than attraction but not ready to say more but hell he's ready to talk about sex! shit! you know the funny thing is I used to get exactly the same messages from guys when i dated - men aerso predictable, it's all about their hard-ons (sorry), you know my first reaction was cringe, but second was 'Boring!'. You know for me to get back to men now , someone has to be not like a typical man, but sensitive. Another thing I kind of imaging her reading this - I'm a bit surprised that she likes this sort of stuff, I think she doesn't like it that nuch, but does like the idea of feeling attractive/desiravle and men trying to get her. Also, men can offer what I can't - social ease (for her to be in a couple, not single) and I'm sure they aer quite well off. I can't offer her financial benefits or social (unless she had a mind to be different and talked about!!), but I can offer a hell of a lot more love and sensitivity. I don't know what's nore important to her though, do I? Also she may really be after hetero sex atm, as she's on some hormones and they can make you horny. With a woman she may not be sure how it goes oreven she htinks that she won't be satisfied (I have worries too but to me love would lead to passion anyway). The thing is I would tell her if she was even with me - i.e. always nice or sometimes neutral, /but she IS short sometimes, bordering on rude as you say. I don't know if it's me or she's like that generaly. I.e, she doesn't spend much time with any man, just going out, but with me she is sometimes hours in one day (but not together, just around) and possib;y she suuferss fronm uneven moods. I don't know why was sje short that eve - she just was. Maybe she feels nothing for me and the nice part is just friendliness but then she wants a break. I'm also worried now that she knows I read the messages as ther could be signs on the device that it's been handled - I'm scared that if she did she would hate me. I can see your friend doing this but the evidence was 'polite' I don't think she wanted me to read something sexual like that. I chatted to her after and she seemed to have less eye contact than usual - she nust wonder, I think she left this behind by mistake but still it was lyiong around. I wanted to ask again whether she's going on date (I don't know why now) but only managed to compliment her og her look as she was rushing out - she sort of said 'ah, htank you' but it wasn't said in any special way - though she was in a huge rush. There was some dithoering from her when i looked her up and down before that but I wonder whether she wanted to ask if i read her messages, or was she waiting for something. The problem is despite all the negative hopeless stuff we still have moments of eye contact (when she is in the nice mood) when I can swear tere is a lot of mutual affection bordering on love. Maybe platonic - you say 'so long' but yours was 3 yrs and you still fabcy her! so in 9 months (and i see her less than you see yours) she could fancy me still as I do her, the fact nothinghappened didn't stop me fancying her so far! I think it's te whole awkwardness of both havingno experience, if she did feel something. sorry for longest post ever.

and I am seriousy considering telling her, exactly. But as io said before what if she is in a first flush of excitememt with the bloke right now, then it's likely to be bad timing. In mmost cases once the sex starts it's not as great as the promise of it was! I can remeber a couple of examples when I wasn't disappointed quite soon evenb if something started as big attraction and even good for a while in bed. I don't know but with men there aer always 'issues' - it's really all about their needs and abilities first of all, isn't it? they can't help it because if things don't work they don't and the womanb has to make all the efforts to help him and be nice at that. It's all quite tiresome unless you aer erally in love with the man. Ands I'm talking of older men of course, I know for a fact her guy is her age or older.It's really not a bunch of roses. Plus women of her age can be also not so easily reaching heights ahem. I really think that inolder age two women work better - I really do, unless of course they aer very definitely straight no exceptions. But as i say maybe the sex is not main attraction for her with men but the social/chasing side is, then i couldn't compete. Sorry I'm emotional and I feel like evrything will be decided soon, and dreading it. I'm worried she will contact me tomorrow and tell me to piss of for reading her messages (or some other pretence but same reason).

you mentioned 'if the vibes are changing' - no I don't think so, they are strong sometimes, but not there at other times, but it's never been solid before. If anything I though she got warmer (I mentioned) - but of course I also said maybe she's just nicer as she's dating and happy? there are those moments still, but honestly it's so hard to decdeive yourself that there is no way to know whether i imagine it or not. I will have to say something, yes.

so easy to deceive , not 'hard'!

hi outmy - thank you for these thoughts. I think my post beat your latests one for length!
You aer right that she may not have had it in her to hint stronger, and that now she thinks that if I haven't been direct so far then mayne nothing will happen, she'll move on. But she did mildly date other men during previous months. I think the other message was from a man she already knew before this new one (also sexual but very brief) - can you imagine if she has two on the go! I don't think she's put off or thinks they are perverts (there is nothing kinky in there and not graphic either but it's still sex talk) - we don't know she may encourage and enjoy it. I think it's hte chase that she enjoys, but actually I now think something already happened because a)she recently lost weight (and it ALWAYS happens when in first flushes of sex with new partner) and b)she goes out to see him at least once a week and dresses up plus phone chats. I bet he doesn't know about the other guy - I'm pretty sure it's not the same one as different style of message. Maybe that one she saw before (but not gone into full r-ship) and the new one is still only about to start, I'd be surprised if she slept with two at the same time. But then she may have raging hormones. In which case she would probably sleep with a woman too iykwim. The thing is - you say I'd regret if anything happened with the guy (not just a fling nut proper involvement I'm sure you mean, as flings come and go) but I don't think I can stop it at this stage, they obviously got involved already, the question is to what extent does she like/want him, and can she fall for him. I don't know hte history but it COULD be a guy she knew a long time but he used to be abroad and maybe she was keen on him for a while? I don't know, I kind of thought the name was the same with the guy who stayed months ago - can it get more mid boggling?? if this is the case she may have feelings for him even and is now getting a chance to develop it properly as he seems to be around. If it's a new guy then maybe it is just a fling (i.e,. she wants 'fun' and nothing else). I've heard her on the phone with him and I must say she didn't sound hugely enarmoured, just like talking to a friend but ten maybe it's just her manner especially as she knew people could hear her, and she does text a lot instead. It really all deopends how hte sex goes - if it's good she may well fall for him properly, if so-so, then ok, she may get vored. I can't see how I can stop the train that's going on tracks already! I have a chance only if she doesn't fall for him but if this happens me saying anything wouldn't stop it. I could still say something if she knows already that it's just a fling/fun, then at least I have some chance. Oh I don' know, sje may feel nothing atall for me though, and it's still thatriask of her never wanting to see me at all. I don't want that.
I think if you ever had a chance with wiq it would be soon, after you leave.You wouldn't be on her territory as teacher/parent anymore, you ll be in a diff place, could be in differebt school at this rate! I mean of she met another woman she could also well be a mother of a schoolchild. Try to stay neutral in mood just for a while, you csan always get upset later iykwim! the point is that negative pessimistic vibes can transfer to her if she is perceptive, just give it a last chance, rather than bury it already. I still think that if you now smile at each other, and maybe will chat again soon (if she doesn't start you should!) then see how it's like at the very end of these weeks, and if it's still friendly I really think you should ask her whether she'd like to have your number (or just ask 'would you like to stay in touch?' in a neutral nice way). I think just giving her the number would be torture as you'd be checking it all the time. If you asked her that then she will either say yes (if she is stil linterested) and then suggest to exchnage emails or numbers, or she will say 'no' but at least then you will know FOR SURE and not wonder. Believe me that if there is something there she will want to exchange contact details. Obviously if she asks you to volunteer anyway there is no need for that, though you could still suggest it (so maybe you could contact her during holidays?). The point is she can well be with someone now, so if she says No you can assume this is the case (it's not just that she is not interested in you personally),

yes, she could definite;y notice that someone looked at her messages because the screen was different to start with - but only if remembers 100% she left it in particular way. So far no 'piss off' texts to me, so I'm hoping she's not sure (and if not sure , can't ask), I don;'t feel good about it, but it was lying around and I know what's happening now at least. I never had opportunity before, don't you think it's 'fate' just when I realy needed to know and was going to ask? I'll never do it again though, as i don't feel great about looking. Mind you in my slight defence - I still have love messages on my phone from ex of a year ago (not very sexual but still amourous and personal) and I woludn't mind at all if she saw them, if anything I'd beglad she could see someone felt so strongly about me! on the other hand that would shopw I'm into men, which is not good but still I wouldn't mind.

personally it wouldn't put me off at all (re dragging the child) as I'd be the same in your situation, when kids are being bratty I have no patience! If she likes you this wouldn't change it. I think she knows you aer a bit temperamental but to compare wityh her you are SANE! all these dagger looks she gave you were worse! not loookign on ht sly - yes, it would make me wonder, but how do you know she didn't look when you couldn't notice? bear in mind she's at work, so if it wopuld bpther me generally it wouldn't neccessarily if one person is at work and she can't be seen by others glancing at you all the time,plus she has to WATCH THE CHILDREn. And at the start she did look a lot when you looked - this matters more.
God I'm now plagued by images of this guy trying to have it off with my wiq! punishment for snooping - he was talking about positions in the message even though not graphic, and now i get the images. I ve been wondering all day how to tell her - face to face, on the phone or by text/letter? I'm really inmclined to say something now (not today but eitherwhen i see her next (soon) or to send letter or text. you knnow if she wasn't so hugely on and off I'd have had more courage already, but it's the mixed signals. I still think there is something there (I m usually perceptive and my intuition would have been way off the mark of i was wrong) but now I thought about it in the light of me vs men - she may have attraction to both BUT the men win by being more socially suitable and maybe also wealthy and this could play a part. As I say my worry is shje'd prefer to keep her bi- side secret and if say so,meone offered she might have tried it out but wouldn't want it out inthe open, anbd she knows me well enough by now to see that I'm a sensitive type and not just into sex as experimentation. But stragely after reading these messages I feel like I can be more bold with her asshe's definitely in touch with sexuality (before I really though she may be properly single and not much into sex and needed a very delicate approach but maybe she likes it more bold?).

I don't know - did she glance at you in the beginning more? if not, then she's just not a furtive glancer (as then she was obviously interested with giving more direct hints) - some people think it's a waste if they aer not seen looking, they'd rather be direct and see the reaction quickly. Plus definitel she is concsious of others observing.
Yes things could hve happened or about to happen but it's not a full blown affair yet! I didn't read all the messages here, only few recent ones but from these itwas obvious that they are comfotable discussing sex and possibly something already started but he was complaining he wasn't given much time or something (i.e. she limits the time of meetings). But there was as i sau anothe message also sounding as if something happened recently from another man - it's all a bit . Mind you she could be just teasing one of of them and not going to go further. It's not that relevant to be honest - it's obvious she's not gay as such (neither an I) and I knew even before than she socialised with men, and I wrote here how she was turning someone down few months ago as he was 'rushing too much' so maube he did work on it and now got somewhere. But I think the new guy is the main one now, lots of mesages from him and long ones. So obv she replies.
Text wouldn't have to be long if I'm just asking her or just telling that I'm attracted - I think it's best not to write too long. Face to face - yes, not sure whether i can do it, she efinitely has to be slightly drunk as then I'll get more honest response and she's warmer then, and waiting for the moment is hard, also so that no one else is around. I'm not going to see her for few days in a row for a while now, just one day at a time for a while. Whereas with letter/text it can be any time. Or I could phone but I don't like not seeing her expression and putting her on hte spot, also my vibes won;t be as good as face to face so prob not the phone. Yes I do mean i feel more bold, as in make it a little more suggestive sexually rather than extra gentle, though obv not as crude as these men sound. I'm just thinking is it best to ask her whether she is attracted to me (or 'likes me') or better to tell her what i feel?