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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships number *8*

999 replies

foolonthehill · 12/04/2012 09:54

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change

I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
TodaysNotAGoodDay · 03/06/2012 21:03

Welcome IDeprive, sad that you should be here, but you're in the right place for support Smile
Some of us are out of the relationship, others aren't, so wherever you are we understand.
This is the place to cry, have a good rant, or tell us of success!
Anyway, Welcome.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 03/06/2012 21:08

Hi deprive, welcome and big hugs. I'll happily hold your hand if you want it :)

today - I don't get my NSDH with his dithering, when he's so aggressive everywhere else, at work, at home, especially with me. Was your NSDH the same? And did you ever figure out why he behaved like that?

fingers, agree with pink, I think your DD is handling it ok, and you're still there to support her. At least she knows what an arse your FW is!

Another day of struggling through but better than yesterday. I took a long hard look at myself today, I'm so utterly pathetic. Long story short, we went food shopping this morning and NSDH decided he wanted a roast for dinner. I love roast as long as we have it in a pub/restaurant or someone else's house, when he does roast at home it takes hours, he makes far too much food and the kitchen looks like a bombsite afterwards. So we ended up having a 'debate' in the supermarket aisle Sad Sad. I gave in on the promise that he'd cook it and clean up.

Since this roast took hours, I was starving so after I put DD to bed, I went looking for a snack. All I could find (my fault, it was my turn to pay for food shopping today & I didn't pick up any snacks) was DD's chocolate yoghurts. I'd deliberately told NSDH NOT to touch them as last time I bought them he kept eating them. I knew if I had one he'd (rightly) have a go. So I'm ashamed to say I took one of her yoghurts and ate it in the bathroom where I knew he wouldn't find me. Sad Sad Sad. Can you picture it?

I had to lol at NSDH in the last few minutes. Watching The Apprentice final and he says "I'd love to be paid to act like a tosser". I was Hmm Confused and Grin.

Amitolamummy · 03/06/2012 22:18

Just wondered how you all deal with emotionally abusive people in life or on here? I generally tend to say something but because thats not something people usually do, or the abusive person isn't used to being challenged they always react as if I have the problem.
I know i'm very sensitive to emotional abuse and particularly when people chose to completely ignore me. Is anyone else like this?

I don't mean severe abuse, just the little things like ignoring you, speaking down to you and never accepting they are at fault. Also those people who decide to help others before they have dealt with their own issues and end up causing people more damage.
I seem to encounter this quite a lot and i get very uncomfortable having people like that in my life. It feels as though I would have to avoid people altogether to be free from it though

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 03/06/2012 23:41

Nini Hi,

No, I never understood why he was like he was. He was so very direct and almost confrontational with other people, but dithery with anything I wanted.

You are not pathetic. I used to think that about myself all the time, but now I know I am not. It is all them. The bloody bastards destroy you bit by bit, I'm feeling it a bit now. I'm usually 'TodaysAGoodDay' but not at the moment. I wish I could just put it all behind me but I can't. I'm desperately hoping someone with some good advice will come along soon...

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 03/06/2012 23:45

Amitola my SIL is emotionally abusive. She says things in a certain way that you take them personally. Everything I say is taken personally, even if I'm trying so hard to be kind. It's always twisted and thrown back in my face. Families eh? Who'd have them? All I do is take a deep breath and keep going. It's hard, but try and stay strong. xx

LemonDrizzled · 03/06/2012 23:48

Today do you think the dithering is a passive aggressive thing? Rather than say out loud "I don't want to go to the cafe I don't want to spend money" he dawdles in, dithers about and misses his chance to get a table. You make the decision to leave and he gets what he wants but hasn't actually said, so he can avoid any responsibility for the decision.
This would work with anything that needs booking in advance "sorry we were too late to get tickets for X"
Someone who wanted to be with you and do fun things with you or for you would be decisive and make an effort. He is voting with his feet. It's the old saying "Action speaks louder than words".

Sorry you are having a bad day. Mumsnet truism applies "It will pass!"

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 04/06/2012 00:06

Yes, it is definately a passive aggressive thing. He doesn't do confrontation directly with me, just passively. It's irritating, he seems so wimpish with some thing, but can be so very cruel with others. I still don't understand him, even after 20 years.

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 04/06/2012 00:12

Oh my god, doing things in advance? Fucking, fucking man.

Him:'What would you like to do tomorrow?'
Me:'How about a walk?
Him:'Let's see what the weather's doing'.

Or even...

Him:'What would you like for dinner?'
Me:'Let's look in the freezer and get something out'
Him:'I'm not sure what I'll fancy for dinner tonight'

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

LemonDrizzled · 04/06/2012 00:13

That may be because you are trying to understand his behaviour using normal rules but if he is from Hissy's Planet Manipulo then there are special rules that apply and it is crazy making to try to work it out.

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 04/06/2012 00:14

I bloody hope this passes, it's fucking depressing!

Where's someone with something good to say? Lemon, you there?

TodaysNotAGoodDay · 04/06/2012 00:15

You're there!

Thank god. Someone with something sensible to say. Yes, he's from Planet Manipulo.

HerHissyness · 04/06/2012 09:08

Morning all.

sorry to have been off the board for so long,problem is that the thread is so large, it crashes my phone and the tablet is juddery, I need to be on the laptop, and sadly when I am on that, I REALLY have to be working....

There are sooo many ((((HUGS)))) that I need to give to so many of you, I am so terribly sorry that so many are suffering at the hands of those that should be treating you better.

What we all have to learn is to PLEASE OURSELVES.

They are asking questions that WE answer so technically they 'making the effort'

BUT

They are not ACTUALLY investing anything into the relationship/enjoyment/life. If we have the audacity to moan the reply would be 'Well I DID ask you, but you didn't come up with anything.... ' and often they will tack on an '..as usual'

SO. This is actually the case with ALL aspects of the relationship. TAKE BACK CONTROL.

Firstly we all here KNOW that this relationship is WRONG, don't we? If we establish this bit, the rest gets a little easier.

Once we understand that this is WRONG, or even 'NOT RIGHT', all we need to do is remind ourselves that others don't live like this, and WHEN we get out life WILL be easier.

Back this thinking up by understanding one thing: HOW could it possibly be any WORSE?

Somewhere to live can be sorted out, money too. Yes it may mean a change, but for the love of cheeses, change is demanded, it's essential. THIS can't go on. Police will back you, SS will back you, GPs will back you, HV will back you. Anyone with a brain will back you. You just need to believe this.

I got out, the first word I learnt was NO.

If something didn't work for me, then I refused to do it. It was SO liberating! I started refusing to put up with shit from the NowX before he left, it was bewildering for him the poor ickle lamb. It was hard to do, but I remained fixed and focussed on knowing that the future without him meant that I could go on a cheap bucket and spade holiday without stress, that I could work and have my own money without him spending it, that I could live without being badgered for sex.

I felt that I was standing on a shoreline, staring out at the sea that was my future, I could see a tidal wave approaching (HIM/Leaving) I knew that if I ran away, I'd never get to the calmer water on the other side, that the wave would always be there, ready to chase me further and further away from where I wanted to be.

All I had to do was stand my ground. Watch the tsunami of him leaving approach, stay rock solid in my foundations, maintain my position and let him and his departure from my life wash over me, taking the fear of separation with it.

When I left him at Heathrow, it followed a tortuous 1 hour journey with him in panic, using every manipulative trick in the book. When I wheelspun away left it took me 3/4 of the journey to realise where I was as I was in a traumatised fog until a junction away from my village.

Nowadays I don't put up with shit from anyone anymore, I don't speak to those that are rude, or who have insulted me, and make no superhuman efforts for anyone that has failed me in the past, I'm keeping those that are vaguely useful in my life, until they are no longer of use, those that aren't can jog on. If i take offence at something, I ask what soandso meant by that, as it sounded like a pop, and if I don't get a satisfactory explanation, that is enough for me.

I'm not about to sit there and wait for seconds.

There were a couple of people that were there for me, that listened, that sympathised, that bothered to ask how I was. That was all I needed at the end of the day, my own family couldn't send a text to ask, but others could. I honour those that were there for me, I tell them how much they mean to me, and they know what a HUGE role they played and continue to play in my life, that I love them and owe them so much.

Life's not perfect, but it has a WHOLE LOT OF HOPE. We'll get there.

SO... In the interim, how to get through this crappy pointless Q&A stuff as detailed by GoodDay?

Have a think about what YOU would like to do, what can be achieved without TF input ideally, cos even if you present the best activity in the world, the fact that YOU want to do it and it would make YOU/DC happy, will be enough for him to totally veto it, or worse fuck it up and make it look like YOU did it.

So if he asks about doing XYZ, you can take interest and say Yeah! let us know when you want to do that. But don't chase him.

He of course won't do a thing, so you then say, DC and I are going to do ABC, seeing as you seem to have changed your mind about XYZ. Go and do it, with the DC and leave him behind.

if he wants to come, OK, but be prepared for him to try to ruin it, call that out at every opportunity, leave him where he is if you need to and come home. Make sure you have your keys of course, or go to a family member/friends house.

Those from Manipulo are overgrown toddlers, they push every boundary and act up to get attention. Ignore it, and suit yourself.

Ultimately you show them that their tantrums will not work. Take the control, the moral high ground and the power back.

You are not going to let a toddler get the better of you now are you?

thebighouse · 04/06/2012 16:01

Sorry for those of you whose FWHs have been difficult this weekend.

This was the first weekend that I spent 48 hours with the children and the Nice Boy. I was so nervous! But everything was fine, absolutely fine, and I actually felt incredibly chilled out and relaxed. Nice boy doesn't get annoyed, doesn't get irritated with me, doesn't raise his voice, just talks nicely and quietly and laughs at my jokes and makes me giggle... I felt like I could be MYSELF without worrying about saying/doing the wrong thing, just like when I'm with my friends (!) .... and the family liked him, and the children didn't pay him very much attention at all, even when we ended up spontaneously sleeping over at a friend's house, and the little one ended up next to me in bed in the middle of the night and was just polite and happy and didn't seem bothered by any of it at all.

And Nice Boy just kept whispering, "It's all going to be okay" every time I looked worried, and held my hand all the time, and I just feel like the luckiest person in the world. Blush

Sorry for indulging.... but wanted to share another hopeful story on my journey, really... xxx

LemonDrizzled · 04/06/2012 16:12

That's lovely big you get to wear the Crown today!

I just had a visit from DD2 who came for a cup of tea then started to cry and said she hates being stuck "in between" me and FWH and misses how her family used to be. She doesn't dislike Very Nice Man but wants Mum Time without him or his DC. So we cycled to town and shopped and lunched and I think she feels better. It did unnerve me though I wonder if my other DC feel the same but don't say anything. We agreed it is OK to be upset and to be hurt by things and good to talk about it. But she does wear her heart on her sleeve.

IDepriveHim · 04/06/2012 17:31

Thanks everyone for your welcomes, sorry I couldnt post again sooner.

So today we have gone to my sisters holiday cottage for a night away. Me, H and the DCs. We often escape here for a change of four walls, but it's the same old stuff. Where is he now? Oh yes, at the pub.

All day, all I have been thinking about is being on my own going forward (well with DCs obviously). Watching crappy tv if we want to, going off on nice days out that we want to do, having a Chinese takeaway if we want one. I live my life on tenterhooks constantly. I can't communicate with him because I don't want to talk to him, I can't even bring myself to have eye contact with him, I'm aware I mumble, avoid him and just try and keep the peace. I shouldn't have to live my life like this. Sometimes he can be nice, he is generally a good dad.

It's like I know what I want, but is that fair on my DCs to take them away from their dad. Or is my thought that 2 happy households must be better than one miserable one?

arthriticfingers · 04/06/2012 18:56

Hi IDeprive
I really think there is nothing to stop your FW (as Lemon had aptly dubbed abusive partners on this thread) being 'generally a good dad' generally somewhere quite else.
I know I am one to talk - I only kicked FW out last week - and it took me 30 years and all the support this thread (Thanks again Lemon could offer)
If a wuss like me can do it, there is hope for all.
As I said, it has only been a week, but the fog is beginning to clear, and the sadness is a normal reaction to a shitty situation, not the pathological depression that felt like a prison sentence for a crime I did not know I had committed and had no idea what it was.
Yey us! We are all strong women!

arthriticfingers · 04/06/2012 19:01

On the heels of what I have just posted, here is a pathetic request for advice.
FW is still phoning DD1 to talk about his 'situation'.
He has, apparently, told her that he wants to phone me tomorrow.
I have no idea what he wants to say.
All the finances are in place - almost.
How can I tell him to contact me only my text and only with concrete arrangements for the few finances not sorted and for children and living arrangements without sounding petulant?
He can't email as is a dinosaur.
Any and all suggestions accepted

arthriticfingers · 04/06/2012 19:04

Big Envy Envy :)

HerHissyness · 04/06/2012 20:28

fingers, firstly... there is no such word as PATHETIC when used to describe ourselves here... only FW's. 'kay?

how old is DD1?

It is TOTALLY inappropriate for your FW to be texting your DD to discuss ANYTHING that is related to you. no matter how old she is. It is abusive, manipulative and designed to marginalise YOU, to gain sympathy and support for him.

who gives a FUCK how you sound if you are protecting your DD from an abusive man?

Tell him that he is not to involve the children in his mind games and that ALL direct comms will be cut off if he does so again. or do you need to remind him and therefore your entire family why he is NO longer in your life?

HerHissyness · 04/06/2012 20:30

I had a lovely outing yesterday too with promising new man and our DC. It went perfectly, couldn't have gone any better! His son is so loveable, and I know mine is! Grin

Seeing him tomorrow night again, though sans enfants so even happier Hissy!

HerHissyness · 04/06/2012 20:31

Envy at the sleepover though.... too soon for us for that, but .....

arthriticfingers · 04/06/2012 22:13

Thanks for stern words Hissy will get something sorted tomorrow
Fuck knows what the FW wants, though - nothing good, you can be sure.
Lets hear it for women on dates with nice men - a tonic of hope to the rest of us - Go, women, go :)

arthriticfingers · 05/06/2012 18:37

Anyone around?
Well FW phoned. I was at home with DD2.
I had planned to be in my office, but was just leaving.
He phoned on my mobile, and I turned it off. He phoned the landline, and DD2 chatted to him and said I was going in to work and to phone me later.
I then sent a text which said:
Don't call me. We have nothing to say to each other. If you want to come to your house (I signed everything over to him, so the house is his) text me - not the DCs - and I will make sure I am not there for as long as you want.
I have no idea what the text sounds like.
Got not a peep back.
FW went to pick DD1 up. I asked her if her father had been talking to her about 'us' and she said he hadn't, but she is very down again.
I went in to her school - at her request - to say that there were problems at home. They already know that she is sensitive.
Is anyone around to talk?

ThePinkPussycat · 05/06/2012 18:53

Hello, am here. And of course you are down because DD1 is down Sad

foolonthehill · 05/06/2012 21:10

big changes, big emotions. You can't just keep on like nothing has happened even though practically you may have to.

There is some grieving to come, some pain at the realisation of what you did not have, but wanted, some loneliness...not just now but all those years.

BUT do you know what, you will come through, you will rebuild a life, relationships, be there for your DCs and they will survive too. And you will all be stronger and wiser because of it. Happier too, though it may seem impossible now.

Big hug and lots of love Fingers.
The pain gets smaller the happiness bigger........................

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