Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships number *8*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change

I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

And curtains!

Thanks Bejeezus and PillarBox

Bejeezus Good advice. I suspect I will need an occupation order to get the house and that is unlikely to be sorted by the weekend so solicitor next week. Read your posts, I had dc2 for same reasons as you had dc2 :) could have written that post myself. Nice to know I'm not the only one. Right or wrong I love my dc and want them to have access to dh too. And from the sounds of it your better off without xdh, sounds like a small baby with all the being sick etc!! He's meant to be a responsible adult.

poppy its so much easier to think about other peoples problems than focus on your own...

Have you read The Bible? As written by Lundy Bancroft rather than the one written by God 'Why Does He Do That?'?

My stbxh eventually gave up after I disengaged from him. But people say it is a really dangerous time, because alot can get aggressive and violent when you start to be less controllable

I have to go out for a while, but curtains you can apply at court for an occupation order or a non-molestation order yourself. It costs £70- you need to download form FL401 (I think, will check) If you are on Legal Aid, they would need to assess your eligibility again to apply for occupation order on your behalf- this can take some time (paperwork etc) SO to speed it up, if you have a spare £70 you might want to think about doing that?

I was trying to buy 'why does he do that' on kindle but it's not available so I got the Beverly Engels instead. I guess I'll have to order it to come in the post.
I've looked at a lot of the links in the OP, that is how I found out it was EA in the first place.
Has anybody on here had a partner who has completed a Respect course? Was it any use?

Thank you for the welcome.
I also should introduce myself I guess.
My situation is that two weeks ago i had a revelation (through reading the links on this OP) that dh has been emotionally abusing me for a very long time. We have been together 18 yrs, married for 12 yrs, have 2 dc (8&6).
I confronted him with this and after some attempts to manipulate himself out of it, he faced up to it. I actually showed him my original post on MN and he saw himself through other people's eyes I think.

So, lots of heartfelt discussions and tears on both sides. I asked him to get himself on a respect course which I knew would be something he would ordinarily absolutely refuse to do, but he rang them up and talked in depth to an advisor for an hour.

Unfortunately there are no places right now, but he is on a waiting list for the course. In the meantime he is reading the Beverly Engels book and working through the exercises.
He has not been abusive in the two weeks since the 'revelation' and i am looking for support in order to get me successfully through the challenges that lie ahead whether dh and I stay together or split.
I really hope that he can change, but I know I have to face facts and be realistic that the chances are slim. I want to do all I can to make myself strong, confident, self assured and clear headed to be able to make the best decisions for myself and my children from now on. How do i become that clear-headed person?

Hi Poppy and welcome. :( that you have to be here.
When you order 'Why does He do That', you order 'Should I Stay or Should I Go', also by Lundy.
Meantime, do everything you can to get yourself back: walking; swimming; reading; dancing; getting out ... the list can be endless if we want it to be :)

The problem I have been having is that I have felt very 'insular' for the last couple of weeks so it's been hard to get out a lot. i've just wanted to curl up in a corner, there has been an element of grieving for the relationship i thought we had, I think.
But, I am beginning to feel a bit better today. I know I do need to get myself back but atm I am not even sure where to start looking...

Oh! :( how good we all are at beating ourselves up (have a look back through these threads and you will see us listing our own faults
Of course, you do not have to do anything.
If you want to stay in, do nice things for yourself, like having tea and biscuits and putting the radio on loud. (sorry, probably just my idea of a good time:))
We are all still in the process of sending out search parties for ourselves.

How do i become that clear-headed person?

thats a million dollar question!

for me, I knew he had to go, for me to be a person again

Question for fingers (or anyone else who has had to "look after" a grown man's needs for so long they have lost sight of their own)

Why am I feeling so guilty when I see him struggling and sad? I was unhappy and angry and resentful in my marriage and leaving FWH to live on my own has brought me calmness and happiness (and a Very Nice Man)
I have understood (after two years therapy) most of the dynamics involved. I can see that FWH has an abusive DF and a narcissistic DM and is actually miraculously healthy in comparison to them. But he still expects me to solve his problems and is resentful when his life does not run smoothly. He still asks where things are (18 months after I left the house) and seems to expect reminders from me to do things like renew insurance.

Now I am sad at the break up of our family and deeply regret it had to happen. I know I am grieving a loss. But I would never return to that relationship or become that person again. I will never be so unselfish and put myself so far down the priority list again. He has a new DP and says he is happy with her. But there is string pulling going on. He says we must "sort things out" and proceed with the divorce and the house transfer, but then acts so hurt when I move things forward (and is mad I got a solicitor to deal with him).

Is he just jabbing the button that used to summon me, and because it isn't working he is jabbing it again and again and again? Or am I feeling bad because I destroyed our marriage and our family? NO you all say it takes two to do that IT WASN'T ALL MY FAULT!!!

Sorry for the stream of consciousness it helps to get it out!

Poppy wow! An abusive man who admits guilt at the first accusation? That's got to be a first. So sorry to hear about your revelation. I've also been in a very long term relationship, we are still together,it's very very hard to come to terms with.

Littlehouse, even though I have only just opened my eyes to the EA I was experiencing I can see that your FWH is just using manipulation here. He certainly is jabbing your buttons and wants you to feel guilty. But your guilt is absolutely misplaced- he is projecting his feelings onto you.

Horsetowater, admit it at the first accusation? Well, it did take quite a few days to get through to him but I managed to hammer it home in the end! There is still a lot more work to do. Just last night he wrote me a letter of apology which was very (not the right adjective but) good and acknowledged most of his main bad habits and recognised how I must have felt in many of the horrible situations he created. Afterwards, though we talked some more and I'm not sure quite how (as always) but he managed to manoeuvre himself into a position where I was supposed to feel sorry for him, give him comfort and reassure him. I explained what he was doing and he tried to deny it and defend himself. This morning though he apologised and said I had been quite right and that was yet another bad habit exposed to him, and yet another to break.

He has been researching more into 're-programming' (for want of a better word) his brain and set himself up with a daily affirmations app on his phone to address both his habit of abuse and his low self esteem, i.e. the symptoms and the cause. Also, he has had an email from the Respect course today and they will call him this week to make an appointment for initial assessment.

Hi LittleHouse
I will try and answer your question although the only qualification I have is having put up with a load of shit for years for fuck knows what reason. Do you think there is a diploma in that
You feel sad when someone tells you they are unhappy because you are normal. Fuckwits, on the other hand, live in a separate universe with a population of one.
I have drawn up two scenarios on the basis of my qualification:
Scenario One on planet Normal
One partner phones the other at work to ask her to pick up the dry-cleaning. Bad traffic and no parking means that it takes her an hour and she gets a parking ticket. When she gets home supper is on and the kids are ready for bed. Partner thanks her for getting the dry-cleaning and sympathizes about the parking ticket. They chat to the children and talk about their day at work.
Same scenario on Planet Manipolo
First part as above. Then ...
When she gets home the kids are in front of the television in their school clothes. She puts supper on. Fuckwit gets in an hour later because 'he got caught up at work'. He complains that the dry-cleaning has an invisible stain and goes apeshit about the parking ticket. He goes on about what a bad day he had at work. Then eats his supper (which has been put in front of him). He has had such a stressful day that he has to go bed early.
Scenario Two on planet Normal
Both partners do their tax returns. They realize that some small cutbacks need to be made. Some disappointment about not being able to go away for the weekend and a bit of a strop from the kids about the new Wii game they wanted, but all is soon forgotten.
Same scenario on planet Normal
She does her tax return quietly and works out what cutbacks need to be made.
Fuckwit takes a week to do his. Making everyone's life a misery by shouting about how complicated and stressful it all is. He then says that he has been unfairly targeted by the taxman and that partner and children are to STOP SPENDING ALL HIS MONEY.
What is missing from Fuckwits is even a rudimentary concept of reciprocity - the life-breath of relationships.
The reason you must stop doing thing for and feeling sorry for your FWH is that it is a one way street. He is sucking the life-breath out of you
I, of course think that planet Normal is LaLa Land, but maybe it isn't.

Spaceship anyone?
Meantime:

Hahaha fingers you must have installed a spycam! Mondays and wednesdays were always like scenario one as I worked late those days.
But scenario two would never have happened because I always did both the tax returns on time and without fuss. After I left FWH made such a mess of his he was late and fined "because of the appalling website" and the "unreasonable time-scale". Suddenly he realised quite how much I did for him!!

He doesn't tell me he is unhappy. He actually goes the other way, bravely tells me how well he is coping and how happy he is, but I know him pretty well and there are signs that reveal all is not as good as it seems. Maybe the New Woman is cooling off, or he is... but what is that to me?
I wish him well and want him to be happy for all our sakes. It would be worse for the DC if he was depressed and lonely. When I first left he did a lot of sobbing in front of them, and they hated it. But he has no real belief that he is responsible for his own happiness, or even for himself.

Thanks for your reply!

littlehouse I agree with fingers above: You feel bad because you are NORMAL. You empathise with other people and have a natural instinct to help. Actually you sound like a lovely and natural mother to me.

But this is HIS craziness and he needs to take responsibility for his life and his emotions, just like you've taken responsibility for yours. (And it's nice! And good! Because you're normal! And you don't need to leech off someone else...)

(BTW maybe the new lady is pressuring him to sort out the divorce etc.? These things can be a bit fraught in new relationships.)

Hi Big nice to see you.
My relationship with the DC is recovering quite well at the moment. One DC has a friend who lost her DM to cancer this week, and the other has a friend estranged from her parents whom I am helping. I think they have realised having me living down the road cheerful and supportive is not so bad!!

Actually the new lady is going through a very acrimonious divorce and makes me look rather reasonable in comparison!!

May have to delete this post as it gives rather a lot away about me!! But I do feel better for your comments. Thanks

Aaargh!

So mad with ex for still being here, and had a go at him. Then a friend came round, and thought she was mediating, she thinks I should 'compromise' - I already am. I shouted at ex, I wish he would go. Feel v v v pissed off. Hate him. Friend seems to think the fact he didn't work and lived off capital counts for nothing, that sols are just out for their own money. Did I mention that I am v v v pissed off?

Have a and some peanuts Pink and maybe drop the friend if she can't be totally biased on your behalf objective

The "friends" that don't help...somehow even more dissappointing than the Ex's...who at least we have decided are not worth the time of day.

Mind you, I think Hissy would remind us that to really blend in on planet Normal we have to ditch the unhelpful relationships with friends and family as well as the OH!

pink I can only liken your 'friends' attitude to my mothers. On that basis I would avoid friend at least for a while, even if you dont want to ditch her.

Being around my mum at the moment sets me back emotionally so much

You cant be around people who dont fully support you; or people who make you doubt yourself. Its such a hard strugle as it is. Please dont spend time with her

beej I second you on the mother front. Mine is gravely disappointed in me and misses FWH a lot. They are in contact and she says forlornly "He says he isn't a bad man..." as if somehow I would have wilfully broken up my family just on a whim.
Rather sweetly my DF has taken to the VeryNiceMan and chats away in a manner he never did with FWH. And when we were chatting the other day he was describing his early wartime childhood 70 years ago and I suddenly realised the similarity with FWH. I found someone with the same hangups as DF and DM is unable to see why it hurt me!!

Pennies go on dropping...

ahh...yes my mum says 'hes not a bad man' and says I am a 'fucking selfish cow' (totally out of character anger and swearing, so feels really bad). Ive taken a few days off work post stbxh finally moving out of the house on saturday. Mum came to collect dd2 yesterday, found me at home and says 'whats wrong with you then? why arent you at work?'

I am very very grateful for my dad-who has opened up and chats alot more than ever also!

yeah, pennies are cascading onto the floor and rolling away under the cupboards!!

horsetowater i meant to say earlier-thank you for the insight into how my dd is probably feeling and why

Its so hard to live with hurting the kids in this way--i find to hard to think rationally about it

littlehouse I know you were joking but am so full of doubt again that it kind of missed the mark

yes, she is a bit flakey as a friend anyway I'm afraid.