Just had the biggest fight with DH... he hit me, I hit him...

[namechangeforthis100]

I've spent the whole of yesterday at the hospital... quite a long time after a miscarriage it turns out (joy) I've got an infection. I'm in agony. I feel shit. All my friends are pregnant.. I'm just having a very shit time.

I decided to get stuff organised.. sort of nights out etc to keep us busy and tonight we went out with about 10 of our best friends for a meal (a lot are shift workers from our hey day hence the tuesday random night)...

I have been in quite a lot of pain and on painkillers... but was without and just slowly drinking wine this evening.. The night went great and we all agreed to meet again next week.

We got in the car (DH driving) and she started to go MAD. Apparently during a conversation I had dictated when he could go out and come back (with an old friend) and I hadn't! I know the conversation he's talking about. They were taking the piss saying I would and I was laughing... but I didn't say a word. And all the home he called me vile, drunk, a bitch etc.. (with our daughter in the back of the car who we just picked up from a sitter to bring home.)

We got in, put DD to bed and it escalated. He screamed at me, I proclaimed innocence, He pushed me, I tried to kick him. We ended up having a full out physical fight.

He left. I wrenched the keys out his hand and he stepped out the door.

I locked it.
Jesus christ.

What do I do now?? I'm already in pain. (now more. Have a perfect hand bruise on my chest.)

Of course it is up to her. Of course she wants to stay with him. She wants to stay with the man she thought he was. Not the man he is. There are so many red flags in this incident alone and that is what people are pointing out. If you think we are going to make someone leave a relationship who doesn't want to then you are overestimating our power. Similarly someone in a happy relationship will not leave because some people on the internet say she should.

Ultimately the OP does not deserve to be treated like this. And this man is dangerous. It would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise.

Yes it is of course up to the OP to decide what to do. Nothing any of us say can change that!

But it's being a decent human being to share your experiences if it can help another in a similar situation.

I wish people had been more direct with me when I was with my areshole exes. Politeness and leaving it up to me didn't help me one bit!

You are still feeling raw, and I expect he is too. Maybe there is more to this argument & fight than meets the eye, but please remember that people speculating on possible affairs or whatever are doing just that - speculating. Some of them have had bad experiences and are assuming that your situation is the same. We don't know you or your husband. I don't suppose it's very nice for you hearing him being called all the names under the sun. I hope you aren't getting more and more confused by all the different viewpoints of people who were't there and don't know you.

If you embarrass someone in the pub then they'll say so later. SAY being the operative word.

His friends embarrassed him in the pub, as it happens.

For that you get strongly verbally abused and then physically.

Then he buggers off somewhere, won't answer your calls or texts, and when he finally does it is merely to pick another fight.

What is he punishing you for?

Hi

I hope the conversation at lunch goes well.

Hopefully he left and has been out of contact because it dawned on him the enormity of what happened.

See what he says.

According to what you say, he verbally attacked you and pushed you first, so your actions were in self defence really. It's not a good idea to just take the "punches" as it means that you are scared and you allow it.

It seems to me that the problem might be his friends attitude and not yours, really.
They've got a running joke that he's not allowed to go out.
He needs to take responsibility about his family and tell them that it's his choice to spend time with his family and not be spending all nights away.

Instead of laughing and "agreeing" with their taunts, it might be better for you to make it very clear that it's his choice, not your imposition. (not saying it's your fault, BTW).

Do not bend backwards to have him back. Do tell him that this must never happen again if you allow him back.
If he is having problems of any sort, he should take action to fix them. Even have counselling.

Good luck with the conversation. I hope all goes well.

namechange these threads can quite heated because they tend to polarise into those who believe a relationship should stay together at all costs (usually the woman's) and those who believe that the only way to deal with abuse is to leave at the first sign of it. That's often a POV based on experience rather than empirical evidence, but the evidence does suggest that only about 5% of abusers ever change. That's worth keeping in the back of your mind regardless of whether you stay or you go.

But nothing is going to be gained by forcing you to jump before you're ready and I'm pretty sure that no one wants you to feel that you are stuck between a rock (your DH) and a hard place (those telling you to leave). All we want to do is present you with an alternative POV - one in which you are NOT to blame for your H's behaviour - so that you can start thinking about this with some objectivity.

Leaving an abusive relationship is a process. It can sometimes take years before the realisation that all those things you read about actually apply to your own relationship. Making a decision not to stand for it can take even longer, let alone the practicalities of leaving, which can sometimes seem like overwhelming obstacles. IMO it's worth it but you are not at that stage yet and may never be if you are sure your relationship is not abusive. However, even if this is a one-off (which is extremely rare) you have a lot to think about. All I want you to do is be aware of the patterns in abusive relationships so that you can recognise them if they occur in your own so that you don't end up becoming one of the women who never leave because they have internalise the message that it's all their own fault and that their H is actually usually really nice most of the time and a 'great dad', etc.

Regarding the friends in the pup I'd say that your DH's belief that he has to establish the upper hand is still the problem. In a marriage where the husband doesn't believe he should have the final say and not be under his wife's thumb, that sort of joke would have no impact whatsoever. It's only had an impact because he believes that a man should not have to answer to his wife and that by involving her in decisions he is somehow in danger of losing his masculinity. That's quite an alarming attitude.

I appreciate what you are saying everlong but the reality of this particular situation isn't actually fitting that description at all.

An 'out-of-character' mad flare-up is just that - I can certainly imagine that happening with a decent person for all sorts of reasons - terrible behaviour...

...followed by agonised remorse, horror at himself for being abusive in front of his tiny daughter and for attacking his ill wife. Endless apologies and everyone in shock.

That isn't what's happening. That's right, HAPPENING, now, continually. What is HAPPENING now in the cold light of day is this man continuing to act horribly, continuing to be abusive by text, putting all his energies into justifying his actions and continuing to attack her (for what, exactly?!!! She did NOTHING!!!! Bloody turned her head in the pub and laughed alongside his fuckwit friends!!). He's essentially walked out and left her, ill, caring for the daughter he claims to be such a great dad to, without making sure in any way that she is ok to do so. Total abdication of parenting responsibiliy because he's angry etc.

All his behaviour, not just his actual flare -up, is horrible, despicable, scary.

And the other massive red flag here is, as sunshine said, if he's so pathetically affected by his 'mates' ribbing him for being 'under the thumb', that is alarming. A normal reasonable man who doesn't at some level believe that yes, he should be the one in charge wouldn't have taken a blind bit of notice of it.

I find it almost impossible to believe that a normal decent man would have reacted like this to this situation. That's one main reason why I am so alarmed by OP's response to this - almost blaming herself for the attack, wanting nothing more than the 'amazing dad' and 'wonderful man' to come home.

Really not good. I hope that there is a reasonable conversation at lunch which makes it clear that his behaviour was abusive and UTTERLY WRONG - but I somehow don't think there will be, and I hope OP keeps an open mind on why she feels the way she does and keeps posting.

namechange he isnt going to leave you. I guarantee that by tonight he will be home and you will have your family how you want it.
Can you see what has happened ? He knows he has overstepped the mark so is doing the one thing he knows will guarantee forgiveness from you.
He will frighten you, make you think its over, your vunerable, your financially dependent and you have a little one, plus of course you love him. You dont wan to break up your family and he probably doesnt either. So he stays out your way, has radio silence, blocks you on facebook and you are petrified. By the time you see him, you will tell him last night doesnt matter, you just want him home. You will hug him and tell him you love him and that will be the end of that episode.

Except it wont. Once you hand someone that much power its very tempting to use it again, and now he knows just how to pull your strings.

Crikey unfortunately I think you speak the truth.

Even if you patch this up, the next time you go out with him, you are going to be worrying about what people say to him and trying to steer the conversation onto topics that don't wind him up and fretting that when the company has left, he will turn on you for some imagined slight.

Do you want that? It's a very easy habit to slip into and at first you won't even be aware that you are doing it.

Oh god no of course he isn't going to leave!

He would have woken up this morning absolutely crapping himself and wondering whether OP would have reported his attack/told his parents etc.

He would have thought hard and reckoned the best form of defence was attack. Hence the behaviour (blocking his wife on facebook? I mean, really? - what for, exactly? There is no reason for that other than a. utter childishness and b. making the point that he is 'angry' and 'on attack').

So he attacks and attacks and breathes a sigh of relief to see the texts coming in begging for it all to be worked out etc. He's got away with the most hideous abusive behaviour, his biggest fear that she will be more concerned for her daughter's welfare and actually shop him is passed. His behaviour has made her focus on the threat of him leaving rather than what happened. He has cowed her.

I would fully expect that lunch will see him wary, 'hurt', lots of comments about her attacking him, less about the supposed incident in the pub, because it didn't happen. Even less about explaining why he actually started this whole thing off. If OP asks any awkward questions, he will storm out. He will continue to be angry and storm or threaten until she has completely dropped the incident. And then he will go back to being a wonderful dad and a great partner, and OP will know not to laugh in the pub next time. Just incase.

If the OP is determined to take him back, the best course she can take in case it happens again is to arm herself with all the financial information she can get regarding living independently if need be. Even get together a 'get out' fund. It's so important to know you CAN go it alone.

Gosh this has moved on since 7am when I first posted.

I stand by what I said then as well.

Of course all this threads have their followers, with their own opinions on what the OP should do, or even how she should be feeling.

It kind of evens out though, no? For every "call WA" there's an equal and opposite "poor wee chappie, you must be putting him under so much stress". For every sockpuppet on one side of the fence there's an equal and opposite one on the other. Meh.

OP- hope you're resting. Let us know how it goes when/if he comes home.

Yep that is what will happen.

........trust me

Course thats the point of threads, people give advice and have viewpoints. No point in any of us getting silly and precious over it though-not helpful

Crikey its certainly an interesting psychological viewpoint-which is why looking out for yourself and your kids right from the beginning is the best course of action.

OP, this thread is PURE headfuck, as others say

Logg off, and be well and try and calm down xxxxx

I can imagine how berefit you feel right now, and I cannot see the advice here is going to help

Hope you are ok op x

OP, I think everything will work out.

Possibly this rage at friends teasing has gone too far and for far too long. You both need to really, really talk about this and how you both respond in the pub and elsewhere when this teasing by friends(ribbing or nastyness)happens again.

OP you are in a terrible relationship. I know it is almost impossible to see it now but in the long run you and your DD NEED him out of your lives. You both deserve better.

Sometimes you really can't see how bad a relationship is until you have some distance from it. This isn't going to be an easy or quick process, practically or psychologically but you will get to a better place.

how do you know that victoria? on the basis of one thread? sweet jesus

Hmm - well I tend to think that any relationship that involves physical violence is not a good relationship.

Or one where one partner is completely blanking any dialogue about the physical violence.