Am I fighting for my marriage or begging?

[cwtchy]

I've been with my DH 14 years, and married for 5 of them. We have a 2 yo and a 4 yo. Things haven't been great for a while as often happens with 2 babies, but DH also works shifts and I work on his days off, which means we have had almost zero time to ourselves since the DCs were born.

DH has told me this week he doesn't love me anymore and it's the end of our marriage.

I'm bloody devastated. I love him as I've always done and was looking forward to our youngest starting nursery this sept so we could have more time together - I was so looking forward to that. He says however that it's gone on too long for him and the love just isn't there any more for him.

I don't want to just let him go, and have told him exactly how I feel, asked him to come to counselling with me, asked for the separation to be a trial one. But he is refusing and says he doesn't want to drag the pain out for me. Should I be trying everything to keep him, or do I deserve better and let him get on with it? I just feel like he hasn't even tried. We used to have such a fantastic relationship. I don't want to beg someone to stay with me who doesn't love me. But I also want to fight for what we had.

Have to follow this thread, even though i have nothing to add in terms of help, but even though i am not in your position cwithy you have been an inspiration to me over this weekend. Without going into detail (Its totally irrelevant to this thread) but you have shown me that positive actions in the face of adversity really do reap their own rewards, even if they are just for ones own sanity. Thankyou xxxx

Good evening! I hope today was OK and that DD was a little more settled. It's so awful to watch them cope with such an upheaval especially at such a tender age when they don't understand everything. Mind you, I'm not convinced there is a 'good age' for dealing with this sort stuff.

You seem so together I'm sure that you will have achieved something constructive today.

By contrast in the face of your strength and decisiveness your H will be bewildered and floundering as he tries to cope with being off-script and fretting about how he will cope with the kids on his own. It's one thing to be in charge of the kids at home, when everything's there because you've made sure that X is in the fridge and Y is washed and ironed, but it's something completely different when he has to do it ALL and think about it ALL.

I've had a shit day today and I've drawn inspiration from you, just thinking of how resolute and decisive you are in the face of such sadness.

x

Oh B&A, sorry to hear you're having a crappy day. Hope tomorrow is a better one for you. I've not done much today as eldest DC was home. We had a picnic in the garden and went to the park, she seems fine today so I'm happy for her to go to school tomorrow (our school breaks up Thursday, don't remember it happening before though).

I have made a dentist appointment today though, because I've got toothache! I've never had toothache before in my life and I have no fillings, so I'm crapping myself.

I've been thinking today about H's access to the DCs. I have a feeling he is going to push to have visits at home (my home, now) as he is effectively homeless at the moment. When I go back to work I'll need him to have them whilst I'm in work. It would work well for the DCs, but I worry about him worming his way slowly back as the more contact i have with him the weaker I will get. I'll have to think a bit more I suppose.

Hey Goawaybob, I'm so glad my ramblings seem helpful in some way, I'm sure that whatever you are facing you will rise to it and become stronger as a result. Xx

Big mistake to let him have contact at home cwtchy.
It never works out.
Couldn't he have them at his parents or something.
I tried this by the way, and it really is better to have minimum contact with him at the moment.

Re the toothache, do you think it could be that you are clenching your mouth alot? I do this when im stressed and it makes my teeth HURT!

Oooh. The whole access thing sounds fraught with danger and hurt for you. Do you get the feeling that your H wants to worm his way back in?

You definitely need to figure out a defence strategy here to protect yourself. Do you have family nearby where H can take the kids? If it's possible can he have them at one of the grandparent's places? The more he feels an inconvenience to others the sooner he'll look for somewhere of his own to live. If you make it convenient for him he'll stick to the path of least resistance and bounce from OW to Mum's for as long as he can. For fuck's sake, where was he planning to live after he dropped his bombshell? You're wise to this anyway, I know.

It makes me so mad though, he just hadn't thought about the consequences of chasing his twitching dick, had he?

I know having him in the house is bad. The house is a big problem for us; I can't afford the mortgage on my own and he can't afford to pay his half and pay for a place of his own. I think we are going to have to get it on the market, to see if we can shift it. There are similar houses for sale in the street that have been on the market for months, so this isn't going to answer the problem straight away.

I am completely bemused at how you can tell your wife you are leaving, but not actually have anywhere to, you know, leave to? I'm betting I will come under pressure before long to let him move back in until the house sells. It's gonna be a NO though, I'm afraid.

cwtchy, you must fight with all your might and strength to not let him move back in, nor to use the house to have access with his dc

you very sensibly know the dangers of that

him getting his feet back under the table is very dangerous for you, because the normal "routine" is very comfortable and easy and makes it more liekly you will both simply slip back into it

DON'T let him be in the house on his own. As for the mortgage, he left you there and has to support the DC's so don't worry about it. He has to support his children if he has income and you may well be entitled to benefits to help - Family Tax Credits??? A question for CAB maybe. ALWAYS remember he made this situation, you didn't. As for lack of money, my ex recently told me he couldn't afford something for one of the DC's - I found out today he's buying a 5 (yes 5) bedroom house with OW. He knows how to manipulate you and will if you let him. If he comes out with any bullshit, smile sweetly and say 'its not my problem'.

Can you speak to the mortgage lender to see if they can help you in some way? Perhaps they can reduce your payments until you sell? I don't see why he should be absolved of his financial responsibilities, he made his bedsit let him lie in it, but if it means you keep him at bay it might be a compromise worth thinking about. Perhaps you can at least speak with the bank/building society this week to understand your options and rule them in or out.

You can't let him in the house, very inadvisable.

It's not just him possibly worming his way back in even just until you sell or he finds somewhere, but he would effectively be able to poke through all your stuff, look at your Internet history etc. can you see your children telling him not to? Not fair on them either - makes it far more confusing for them and may keep hope alive in them for longer.

He will have to look for nice places to take them just like other cheating bastards do.

Hi Cwtchy - have been lurking on your thread and silently wishing you strength. You've had some absolutely fantastic advice on this thread on the emotional side of things but I would urge you to now get some legal advice on both contact and financial matters.

Re contact - I can totally understand that in order to minimise upheaval for the DCs it may be easier to have contact in the family home as well as making it convenient for you if you need him to look after the kids whilst you work. Many many women do this immediately post-separation BUT (and it's a big BUT) it rarely works out as a long-term plan mostly because it blurs the line of separation to the disadvantage of the party remaining in the home. He will get to come and go pretty much as he pleases on the pretext of seeing the DCs who may then become confused if they are being told that their parents are separated but still see them together. In a worst case scenario, if this went to court, the ideal would be to move contact away from home at the earliest possible opportunity in order to ensure that there is no ongoing confusion for the DCs and to set up a regular routine to their benefit. Easier said than done in your shoes, I know but something to think about in the next couple of days.

Re finances - I understand that you may feel practically that the family home should be sold in order to provide 2 homes which can cater to the kids' needs. But you have said that you can't manage the mortgage on your own so presumably you would need to rent somewhere and supplement your income with benefits. Meanwhile, once your H is free of the mortgage, he could go onto buy somewhere (presuming his income is higher) meaning once again you are the disadvantaged party. There are much better solutions than this - I won't bore you with the details but suffice to say, the primary carer staying in the home is the norm particularly where they are unlikely to be able to cover a mortgage alone (not in spite of that fact). Long-term you may certainly find that tax credits, maintenance and a slightly higher income may cover the mortgage and expenses and an agreement can be set up whereby he transfers the house to your sole name in return for you agreeing to pay him a share (NOT 50%) when the youngest child reaches 18. Please do look into this. It may be more do-able than you think.

So far as being concerned where he lives, sorry to be blunt but not your problem missus. He can certainly afford somewhere else to live - he can move in with his parents, his ow, his mates in a shared house. It won't be ideal from a contact point of view but all of these are common scenarios post-separation. Courts don't baulk from ordering contact where fathers are in shared accommodation. Ready beds, travel cots and sofa-beds are the order of the day! So long as kids get to spend time with their dads, separate bedrooms for overnight contact are a luxury not a necessity.

Hopefully I've given you some food for thought but there are many many much better qualified people to give advice if you post a thread in Legal. none of that will beat a face-to-face consultation with a family solicitor in your area (look for a member of "Resolution") so get on that phone lady and start making appointments!

brilliant practical advice, Cash

Fab advice there Cashncarry.

Hiya, others are much more knowledgeable on the vital stuff, but have some tips re the dentist (bad teeth due to sugar habit!) Unless is something major (prob not) they won't treat it at the first appointment, but they may do a jabby clean so pop some painkillers an hour beforehand just in case! Then if it is a filling you need, make sure you get an anaesthetic injection (in addition to the painkillers) stings a bit but makes any drilling OK. White ones cost a bomb (not available on nhs), nasty metal ones are cheap, can't be seen and actually last longer.

Yes, very good practical advice from cash.

FWIW I changed the locks immediately and in his shock my now ex agreed with me that although we have a joint house together it was no longer his home it was mine - so he hasn't set foot in it since the day he went.

You really do have to set firm boundaries about this, as it will help you get some emotional and psychological space to begin to recover (even though as yet the outcome is still unclear). Him coming and going will just confuse the hell out of you and your DC's. And as cash says, it's his problem that he's effectively 'homeless' now.

But I can see this scenario before much longer if you aren't absolutely clear with him:

begging, whinging, smoothing things over, massive charm offensive, threats and manipulations of every hue etc etc.

It seems as though you may have been a major support to him in your marriage, perhaps taking alot of responsibility for you both. He has lost this for now and he will want it back, will want you to sort out his shit for him.

For me the final straw of discovery was like someone suddenly shone a light into every aspect of my marriage so that not only was his infidelity exposed but also my own unhappiness which I'd been covering up and compensating for - and I was finally able to say "that's it, enough". I was able to think about me for a change.

This is an opportunity disguised as disaster OP - whatever happens you can take your time to think about how you want a future to be, with or without your H in your life.

Just read your thread Cwtchy and so sorry it has come to this. From you first post to discovering the worst, how aful but you sound like such a strong person.

I haven't got any practical advice but did not want to send you strength and another dose of fighting spirit.

Once H's earnings are taken out of the equation, will you then qualify for any kind of childcare tax credits or anything?

I agree that allowing H to look after the children in your home will make things harder for them in the long run, and I would lay money on him snooping on you. I would also bet on him letting you down with childcare arrangements, making work more hassle for you. Do you honestly think he's going to tear himself out of OW's bed to allow you to get to work on time? What about when he is enjoying a pint in a sunny beer garden and doesn't fancy the school run, so you have to do it? Don't give him the power.

Using a childminder or nursery might work out to be less stress in the long run.

Thanks cashandcarry, and others for the great advice and kick up the arse. I had kind of slowed down a bit over the weekend but am back in head-screwed-on mode now.

Solicitors appointments made, I'll try and cover a slightly different angle with each, and see which one I prefer. I've made a new Tax credits claim this morning, and I have a suitcase of paperwork to get together for the council for Council Tax benefit.

I'm going to ring the mortgage providers now and at least inform them of what's going on. Then I have to pop into the bank and check my direct debits are ok after freezing the account.

I think I will also after Easter go to CAB, because I want to balance my hours at work with the benefits I am entitled to, and might need a bit of help working that one out. Full time I actually would earn significantly more than H, but I had cut my hours to be with the DCs. I can work from home too so there may actually be a way I can keep the house, at least for the time being. Thanks again Cash for pointing me in that direction.

This is an opportunity disguised as disaster OP

What a fantastic saying. It's so true for many relationship threads as well.

cwtchy - you are going to have a successful happy life. You are obviously a woman who makes things happen and is self motivated, doesn't sit and wallow in self pity... Your DC are very very lucky.

Well done cwtchy on getting organised, that's great.

One word of caution for your night out on Sunday. Once you've had a skinful few, get one of your mates to take your phone off you. Nothing worse than deciding to "give him a piece of your mind" whilst pissed and ranting, very undignified!

Don't drink and dial!!

Am also wondering if the toothache is stress related, could be you are grinding your teeth in your sleep or clenching your jaw a lot without noticing. Might be worth mentioning to your dentist you have had a stressful time so they can think about the mechanics of the problem you're having.

Ps you rock!!

Well done Cwtchy.

Just a thought for later on... after my first marriage split up in 1990, I kept the house, which had little equity in it, but at a time when interest rates were high.

I managed by taking on a carefully screened lodger,and it worked out very well.

She was a lovely young woman who was a slightly older (mid twenties) student who didnt want to live in halls, and not the hard drinking and dozens of boyfriends type, although not too straight or miserable! She paid rent for a room, and also enjoyed certain other benefits eg cheap landline etc, in exchange for the odd bit of babysitting. Over time, it was really handy to be able to pop to the corner shop for 15 minutes without booting and suiting kids, whilst she was in.

Actually we became quite friendly and kept in touch after she left, and I remember the added bonus was having someone to chat or laugh with after work or during a few of the evenings, when we were both in.