DP just been very agressive with DS

[laurel123]

I don't know what to do, basically DP has completely lost it with DS (11) this morning. DP overheard DS calling me a twat and being aggressive towards me, ( I was trying to get him ready for school) DS has been pushing the boundaries lately but when he finishes his strops he will apologise and have a cuddle .Now I know DS should not speak to me or behave like that but I think DP reaction is totally over the top. He pushed him around grabbed him by the neck and screaming in is face, he threatened to take him to the top of the garden and "beat him to death" if he ever spoke to me like that again. I have managed to calm things down and DS is now off to school but obviously very upset, my heart is breaking for him. I am just sitting here a bit shell shocked and very upset. I have told DP that his behaviour is totally over the top, yes I agree DS should not speak to me like this but this is all wrong. I have told DP if DS speaks to someone at school he could find himself arrested. What would you do? I need to think calmly. I am not scared of DP and he is not an aggressive normally, I know when he calms down he is going to be mortified. I just want some thoughts on the best way to handle this.

IAm that is totally different if the boy was being "abused" then get the hell out but if this is a one off loss of anger and I know we should be in control as adults but it happens then forgive and forget. Move on and all learn a lesson

I think pre pubescents (male and female) do present their parents/carers with challenges...behaviour can worsen, personalities can seem to change overnight!...but that is a normal developmental stage.

Dont you remember being his age OP?

Your son has no right to call you names/be aggressive towards you BUT by the same tojen your dp also has no right to threaten and physically intimidate your child.

I am deeply deeply saddened by this thread and some of the replies

far from unusual - sadly, true.

not indicative in itself of any lasting family breakdown - a family doesn't have to break down when there is violence. More usually, violence becomes an acceptable means of communication to its members. In due course, the children go on to be violent to their own children. It's called normalising violence. That's what OP is trying to prevent.

imnot abuse starts somewhere. what OP's DP did was abusive to his son. if he does it once more it will be abusive and what happened today will have been the start of an abusive relationship.

and i dont think anyone has told OP to leave her DH.

I'm sorry i haven't read all of the thread but I have read most of it.

I think the words used were very harsh, I would never agree with threats like that, whether it was meant or not is irelevant.
Also, grabbing a child by the neck is surely very wrong?

I have a 13 y/o son who tries to push the boundaries but he is not disrespectful to either myself or DH as it would not be tolerated but his behaviour at times has been questionable, and there has been punishments but although there may have been raised voices, there has never been a need for physical punishments.

My DH would certainly get involved if ds1 was rude to me, but we agree we are a united front.

So my question to the OP is this-if you thought this was unacceptable, why did you not stop it? You said you were worried, your DS went to school upset and sobbing- why did you send him to school like that?
You say your DP isn't aggressive and you are not scared of him- I have to say if my DH did this to any of our children, I would put a stop to it, and I wouldn't send them to school alone knowing they are sobbing and upset, and then worry he might tell a teacher.

Either you did find this acceptable- or you were too scared to deal with it?

This is one of the most awful threads I have ever read on mumsnet. Fuck knows what's going to happen in the next generation if there really are this many women who think it's ok, normal or even desirable for a man to treat an 11 year old child like this.

Bcaroo I seriusly suggest you read the thread before making stupid comments you have completely missed the point.
peppermint Maybe agressive was too wrong a word, just generally stomping around and being rude and loud, did not threaten me

seeker I know Its awful.

I have read it OP

Read my posts and answer me...would you be ashamed?

I agree with the first few posters about how your son really needed a short sharp shock, BUT I am a tad worried by the 'beating to death' comment.

I also think you should get your DP to apologise to your son, (and reassure him that no matter how angry he is he will NOT be beating him to death or in fact, beating him at all.) But equally your son needs to know that if he treats people shoddily and without respect (especially his mother) there will be serious consequences.

Then I would have a bit of a crisis talk with your DP about how to handle this sort of thing in future, anticipate it building up, and find strategies to diffuse it. Your DP cannot let that kind of talk or behaviour become a habit. It sets a really bad example, and will lead to a very unhappy and dysfunctional home. Your son is only 11 - what will it be like at 15 when he decides to push and shove and threaten him back?

Then you should talk to your son about how he can expect appalling behaviour to be managed in future. And stick to it. Hopefully he has learnt a lesson from this, and he won't do it again in a hurry.

There are some helpful tips on coping with anger/discipline on the parentline plus and NSPCC websites.

"he can be short tempered, I have found myself stepping in to calm things down "

ah.
it usually isnt just a one off.

stick with your plan for serious conversation with DP .
what are his personal strategies for dealing with his stress/when buttons are pushed?

stick with plan for continuing to let DS know what behaviour is acceptable, agree a better morning rouine, whatever.

as for defending you op with his manly anger - well that is sooo weird as a concept. h could have said - "i heard that. you dont call mum a twat. I want you to apologise, now, " and whatever agreed punishment you have in your house for calling each other "twats".

grabbing him and threatening to kill him?

is DS regular 11 year old a child still; in size etc, or already teenage big person?

My mild mannered, very well behaved, 12 yo DD once muttered something along the lines of "oh fuck off" to me. I immediately told her to repeat herself and she was so embarrassed she said sorry straight away. Most teenagers push the boundaries, it is totally normal.

It is your DHs behaviour that is the problem here. His behaviour is anything but normal.

I would be having a very serious talk with him tonight. He needs to acknowledge he was 100% in the wrong and he needs to apologise to his son.

I know there is never an excuse for this kind of behaviour, but is there some aspect of your DH life he is finding stressful? It sounds like he needs some kind of professional help.

"he can be short tempered, I have found myself stepping in to calm things down" I never read that Cest!!! OP maybe do need to address issue more strongly then if you feeling need to step in [often?] Sorry about harping on about a one off mental moment !!

If a man did this to his wife for 'disrespecting' him there would be a chorus of "Leave the bastard" and "you'll never be able to trust him again".
I really am failing to understand why any poster is trying to justify violence?

Exactly.
I left ex for similar behaviour towards me. He didn't have to send me to hospital.
My reaction if the behaviour was towards DS would have been the same.

As it is a first time, there's some hope that it won't happen again. A second time would be a deal breaker.

Annie, this was not aggressive interplay. It was grabbing by the neck and a death threat.
Aggressive interplay might be grabbing by an arm, and taking to his room for example.
Alpha males don't lose it like this. Alphas are in control of themselves and use only appropriate force.
This was totally overboard.

I agree he needs to say to your son that the way he behaved was unacceptable. Because what if your son starts modelling this behaviour at school? Or in a relationship?

I think you definitely need to talk this out as a family ( and your DP needs to get some self control)

If it wasn't so I'd be at the idea that the child's behaviour is apparently unacceptable and indicative of a problem that needs dealing with sooner rather than later, but the adult's response is just 'a mistake' and he should be cut some slack as we all make them.

Also loving the idea that when we want to show a child that it's wrong to teat someone disrespectfully or to try to get your own way with aggressive behaviour, the best way to deal with it is... with agressive behaviour.

Ok then.

I think it was the threat to kill him that worries me most allied with the sudden anger and violence. Saying 'I'll kill you' in a jokey way is one thing. Smacking in the heat of the moment as a one-off and then apologising is another thing. The violence and the threat together is something else altogether, and really frightening.

How safe is that child going to feel next time he does something to upset his father?

The least he should do is say sorry - genuinely - and tell him that the threat wasn't real. Then and only then, the issue of rudeness to his mother can be addressed.

"he can be short tempered, I have found myself stepping in to calm things down "

Ah. Yes.

How far do you think this model of behaviour is influencing your 11-yr old who is sometimes aggressive, sweary, and stomping around?

Obvious where your son is learning his behaviour from - his dad.

Breaking your heart over him is no excuse, you need to set some boundaries. With his dad that is.

Does he bully you too?

In fact, I'd say this is behaviour of an omega male. :(

Laurel, if you have to step in sometimes, I'd insist he attends anger management counselling.
My feeling is that this will happen again, unless your nip it in the bud, and your DP gets a shock. (Yes, it is he who needs the shock tactics, not DS)

This thread reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons I watched only yesterday. www.imdb.com/title/tt1628656/
I think your DP needs the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar treatment.

I have just returned to this thread and am so shocked and saddened to see so many people excuse or minimize the DP's behaviour. Yes, 11 year olds can be rude and need firm boundaries. They need to be taught what behaviour is acceptable. You know how they learn best? Through modelling. The adults around them need to show through actions, not words, that they treat others with respect and solve problems in a calm, sensible way.

Yes, we all make mistakes. Children also need to be taught (through actions) that when you make a mistake, you admit it, apologize and do whatever you need to stop it happening again. Especially when it's such a bloody big mistake.

OP, I think you need to teach your DS a lesson here. I think you need to teach him what his dad did was wrong, and inexcusable and you will not allow it to happen again.

I know a man who put his own daughter in hospital following a beating that even to this day he considers justified (she got in a car with a good-for-nothing boyfriend that he disapproved of). If you look at his behaviour towards his other children before this event, there are instances that are less significant than the one described in the OP.

You either think it's acceptable to use or threaten brute force to get your own way or you don't.

OMG I cannot believe the number of posts on this thread excusing op's dh's behaviour It's abuse, pure and simple.

My god, if that happened to either of my dses they would be absolutely terrified. Your children can't protect themselves from violence in the home op, you need to act on their behalf and show them quite clearly that you will not tolerate your dh treating them like that. Children need to feel secure.

He's a child, 11 years old!! Muttering under the breath comes with territory surely! If dh ever did anything like that to our children he would be out of door.

How does your DP treat you? Has your DS ever witnessed him calling you names? Have you had arguments in the presence of your DS where your DP verbally abuses you?

I would never have dared to call my own parents anything like 'twat' because even though they had some real humdinger arguments, there was always an element of mutual respect in my parents relationship.

Could it be a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'? Is your DS copying your DP?