Anyone there to help? I feel I'm drowning

[mosp]

I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about this, but if I don't express my emotions I will explode.
I recently made a new friend. Long distance. He is doomed. The friendship is doomed. I can't cope. I didn't anticipate feeling so close. :(

It's worrying because you've formed a close attachment to a murderer. Your judgement seems to have flown out of the window.

"I fear that he may be another abuser and how would I know?"

You'd know because he's a murderer. It takes a lot to kill someone you know - it's almost an impossible thing for one human to do to another because we aren't made that way. It's a very big boundary to cross and only certain people can do it. Being able to murder is a quality in a person to be avoided, not embraced. Past behaviour is the best judge of future behaviour.

You're a vulnerable person and he's manipulated you.

You've also ignored my questions in favour of seizing on one word. Why is that? I'd still like to know why you want to be accepted by a man and why you picked a murderer to offer that acceptance.

Hissy you are talking such a lot of sense on this thread, I really hope mosp can take some of it on board.

Did you used to post under another name, also with hissy in it?

Mosp - you don't think it is fair to accuse him of being an abuser?

He has killed someone. That, surely, is the ultimate abuse.

I cannot say strongly enough that you are not in the right place to engage with this man. It is eroding you as a person.

He has absolutely not manipulated me. Argh! It is ALL my own issues causing these problems.

I think that a one-off murder does not = systematic abuser. There are SO many different reasons and extenuating circs. I know he did wrong. He knows it. I think any human can be driven to any extreme (potentially). Who knows, I used to look at my sleeping H and daydream him dead. Who knows, if I had not escaped what I'd have been driven to.

Nyak. How has my other post not answered your question?

Ali, yes, there have been a number of Hissy derivatives... Mostly me I think!

mosp, for the very reason that you are swamped, confused and spaghetti-headed about all this, is why you need to step back/away.

You are saying (and know) that it must be platonic, but you are stating that you want to feel accepted by him, that you need it to be HIM, that you 'like him'

That is YOU blurring the boundaries. That is YOU getting confused and messed up about it.

As I've said countless times, if you were thriving in all this, we'd all be in awe of you. I shall say again: You are swamped, drowning, confused, and stressed about this. This is the reason why we are telling you to back off for a while.

Ok, I see that. I agree with you.

I just feel riled when anyone makes accusations about him and his letters, motives or personality when know nothing about him or the details of the crime. Knowing the facts of his crime, I would trust him more than my ex h.

Serious as murder is, it is not systematic and persistent abuse stemming from a need to control and dominate.

"I would trust him more than my ex h."

If you think about this for more than one second you'll realise that that is zero of a recommendation for this person.

"Serious as murder is, it is not systematic and persistent abuse stemming from a need to control and dominate."

Taking someone's life from them is the ultimate control over them. They will stay dead forever, because the murderer chose to exercise that control over them. It is systemic because it's forever, they can't get their life back, and it is absolutely about domination.

TBH I think you've switched your brain here and are operating on ego. You're happy that someone has written you some nice letters (he's not going to write you nasty ones is he) and you're willing to put aside his disgusting crime, because he's making you feel good. It's also probably familiar for you to capitulate to a violent man, except this time he's safely behind bars. Put your ego down, and start thinking about this in proper moral terms. It's awful that you're making excuses for his crime.

Did he kill a man or a woman by the way?

You also still haven't said why you need to be accepted by a man. There wasn't anything in your post that answered that.

Why are you trying to minimise murder ? This is all pure fantasy. He's a murderer for goodness sake - not a tax evader.

The fact that this organisation Human Writes allowed you to take part in this without screening you properly to find out how vulnerable you are is actually shocking, and reflects extremely badly on them.

I appreciate it comes across that way. So, do I take it that you are opposed to people forming penpals through HW in general then? Or is it just me? There are two arguments going on here. One is Whether is should stoop so low as to show kindness to a murderer. The other is whether I am in a place to do it.

Tbh, this is something that many people will argue about. I think I need to only talk to people who oppose the DP and are ok with corresponding with a murderer (in theory).

All the arguments that spout hatred towards him just turn me away. Sorry.

mosp, I don't think I've questioned his motives per se, I think I may have said you don't know what he's really like, it's entirely possible that he's presenting the HIM he wants you to see... he can re-invent himself to you and that would mean that one person thinks he's a good person. If you write to that 'good person' then it becomes real to him.

My crux of the matter is that it is causing you anxiety, so therefore you need to review the situation.

Side anecdote. I was in abusive relationship for over 10 years. Ex left a year ago. I have recently (and kind of on a whim) started internet dating. I got treated poorly by one guy I thought was just beyond fabulous, we messaged every day for a month, all day, every day. he was travelling for business for 2 weeks, and even though he was away, he and I were inseparable (virtually). We met, he treated me fairly poorly, I was rejected by him. Dismissed, out of hand. It hurt. So I rolled up my sleeves and kicked the dating profiles into shape. I was kind of swamped, had about half a dozen emailing me, some calling, texting etc. I stopped sleeping; I felt sick, and stressed. When stressed, the abusive past means that I revert to fearful, so I spent my waking hours in a state of unwarranted fear, and my nights tossing and turning.

What I realised was that i was not happy with what I was doing, that the need for attention to spite the rejection of the one guy was harming me more than the original pain itself did in the first place!

Your feelings here are your instincts telling you to slow down, to care for yourself first.

I excused myself from all of them pretty much. One emails me on and off, the other looks to be turning into a proper GF/BF thing... so Mr Email will have to tail off shortly, I'll have to tell him that there probably won't be any meeting up.

So please, listen to your body. hear what your instincts are telling you.

Focus on you, focus on fighting to get yourself some therapy. I have therapy once a week, and it's really great. I find it invaluable. It's lovely to have a space to sit and talk about myself for an hour, no phones, emails, interruptions....

"All the arguments that spout hatred towards him just turn me away."

How do you think his victim's family would feel about that. Or his victim's friends. Or the people who had to deal with the dead body. Or the police who had to investigate the crime. Or the prosecutors who prosecuted it. Or the jury who had to hear all the details and come to an opinion? Do you think they would be impressed by your loyalty to a killer you don't know?

As for what Human Writes are doing - well death row is wrong, but this penpal scheme is about giving an outlet to egotisitcal but vunlerable women to find men who "accept" them, then no they aren't providing a good service, they are causing more damage.

I don't think I agree with the life for a life. I do think it's archaic, and there is room for error.

I don't disagree with people writing to convicts on DR.

I DO have an issue where vulnerable people are suffering as a result of wanting to do good, and that's what I see when I see you mosp. Your intentions were good, but sadly the actuality is harming you, and your real motives for needing to do this are that you need this validation.

So, in principle mosp, I have to say that I do have an issue with YOU writing to a DR prisoner, but purely out of concern for you, and at this moment in time. If you were stronger, I would be fine with it. This turmoil I see in black and white before me is palpable. That's what I want a commitment from you to put a pause in while you gain strength and real insight into what is going on in your psyche.

"if this penpal scheme"

Did he kill a man or a woman?

Thank you hissy. I know that you are thinking in a level headed way about this. I totally see what you mean. Whether or not I can take the advice is another matter.

The 'how could you even think of trusting a murderer' posse are the ones upsetting me.

The ego comment, I just don't understand on any level.

By the way nobody has spouted hatred towards him. We've pointed out that he's a murderer and that there's no excuse for that.

I also say that I am concerned at the lack of screening here. You need to be monitored and supported. I don't think if properly screened that you ought to have been accepted on this scheme.

No offence mosp, but it's clear that this is not right for you to be doing.

Nyak. Either you have to step away or I will. You're not helping. In any case, I need to go now for a couple of hours.

By the way, HW do screen. I thought I was in a stronger place. How could they possibly conclude the contrary?

All I ask of you mosp is to hear me.

I'd be delighted if you could please call the HW coordinator and have a chat with them about your thoughts and feelings. As I have said, I am sure that they will have dealt with this before, so ought to be able to support you and help you with this situation.

please let others be concerned for you, let others help and support you.

Again, no offence, but the screening wasn't stringent enough, you are NOT strong enough for this, you have recognised that.

Please call them tomorrow? have a chat?

Thank you hissy

(((((HUGE MOSP HUG)))))

Well I'm going to say one more thing and then I'll be gone.

From your silence on it, I think he probably killed a woman.

But whatever the truth - the person here you've completely ignored is his victim, what he did to them, how he stole their life. In your rush to feel empathy for a killer you've completely ignored his crime and the devastation he caused.

Enabling, which is what you're doing, is not a good quality, in fact it causes a lot of harm in this world all by itself. It encourages abusers and their supporters and leaves victims with nowhere to turn. There are many people you could have helped - victims of crime, families of murder victims, children in the developing world who need support, but instead you chose a perpetrator. You don't have a clear view on this, which some people who are helping people on death row do. They don't ignore or minimise their crimes, they just think the death penalty is wrong. You've gone a lot further than that and are making excuses for him.

And I think you need to hear this, because for all your "I'm drowning" you're pretty strong on what you want to hear or not hear, which suggests to me this is more about drama than real feelings. Romance is nice, romance with a killer is even more exciting. But only if you forget the dead victim, who will always be the third person in the kind of relationships. Remember, you're only writing to him because he killed someone. If he wasn't being punished for a murder, you would never have heard of him and he'd never have heard of you. So not that special really.

So I think you need to take a look at yourself and the kind of values you hold, because where I'm looking it's not that good - excusing and empathising with killers, whilst pretending their crime really doesn't matter. Well it does - to the person who had their life stolen and to everybody they left behind.