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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Need clarification re husband and I was asleep

228 replies

beautifulrelease · 15/03/2012 13:07

So I've been reading the 3 panda's thread and have tried to ring rape crisis just for a bit of clarification. Have namechanged today but I have posted on the other thread a few times (I'm not curiousgeorgie).

Not as serious as three pandas situation but it's still bothering me. I have frequently woken up to find my husband touching me up, breasts, mastarbating me, no penetration. I have asked him not to but he falls back to sleep and carries on.

I have woken up to find him 'in me' but this was very early days in my relationship and he was my 1st and only sexual relationship so I thought maybe this is what you do Blush so I let him carry on.

I have asked him to stop waking me in the night but he says he's asleep, I have little ones so sleep is precious and I still have nightmares about previous abuse and waking up to be groped after dreaming about it is quite alarming!

Have talked this through with someone who I feel I can trust and she says that my DH and sex aren't the issue, it's my past getting in the way of having a healthy sexual relationship. Please can you help me clear this up as I'm very confused whether being pissed off with him is right or not? Thank you lovelies x

OP posts:
beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 21:54

Nyac thousands of people live by these rules, too many Christians pick and choose what rules to live by, I'm just trying to do my best x

Nyac · 17/03/2012 21:55

But it's causing you immense harm. The rules aren't more important than your wellbeing.

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:02

I know, I'll work it out, I won't let the boy's suffer x

Charbon · 17/03/2012 22:03

You can have another sexual relationship and in many denominations of Christianity that would be allowed.

There's nothing disgusting about not flushing a loo if it might wake a sleeping child. Mothers and fathers the world over have done the same.

Calling someone 'disgusting' for such an everyday thing is abusive, but I'm sure you know that.

Are you going to put religion ahead of a normal happy childhood for your children then? One where they don't have to appeal to an adult to stop shouting?

Nyac · 17/03/2012 22:07

What does that mean though beautiful? You sound like you're under a spell. You need to break it.

And I agree with Charbon, this is harming your boys too.

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:07

I know you might think I'm stupid but I really wasn't sure it was 'abusive'. I feel like a train crash right now. I don't know anything x

Nyac · 17/03/2012 22:08

Not stupid, but looking outside for answers e.g. to god, or your church, your husband or a set of rules, rather than paying attention to your own conscience and self.

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:21

I don't trust what I think, would I be posting on here if I did?

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:22

I wouldn't be in this situation if I did

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:22

He isn't a bad person, he has no role model, he's lost too

TBE · 17/03/2012 22:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gay40 · 17/03/2012 22:31

You surely can't fail to see the effect this will have on your children. They don't deserve this shit, they really don't.
Get them, and you, out of this abusive situation. Those poor, poor kids.

Gay40 · 17/03/2012 22:32

He has lost. Lost the plot.

beautifulwho · 17/03/2012 22:37

I know 1st hand Gay40, please do not suggest I would let my babies be harmed, I would rather die. I don't think you're grasping that I only realised he had lost it on Thursday. And I have done something about it please don't turn this on me. I love my boys so much.

Buchanquine · 17/03/2012 22:42

Beautiful, I may have to go and double check my references, and I don't know what denomination you are, and whether you would use a different translation, but I'm pretty sure that the bit about a divorced woman remarrying being considered an adulteress (which seemed to be what you were talking about) specifically excludes divorce in the case of adultery and the deliberate breaking of the marriage covenant. I don't think you should assume at all that leaving your husband in these circumstances automatically excludes you from another relationship. I can understand what you say about trying to uphold rules even though you find them hard, but it's also important to be open to the idea that we may not always fully understand what it meant and so misinterpret them.

Whatever choices you go on to make you need to focus first and foremost on God's love, mercy, compassion and overwhelming capacity to recreate and renew, in spite of what you see in front of you at the minute (though this may or may not relate to your current marriage). And for the really dark times, hold Romans 8, 38-39 close all the way.

After all that I really hope I haven't massively misinterpreted your comments and you aren't referring to a Christian background. Apologies if so.

Thinking about you

foolonthehill · 17/03/2012 22:45

beautiful YOU you will be ok....another relationship?...just sort out this one first, let the future take care of itself...today has enough worries of it's own.

Deal with what needs dealing with, plan what needs planning, protect those who need protecting and move forward to a better future...and I know you will be amazed at where you end up, and I hope, like me, you will experience the amazing kindness of a loving God who truly cares for you.

We live in a fallen world, in Africa we might be starving, or pressed into serving the militia, in China maybe in jail, in Afghanistan disabled from an IED.....the world is full of bad stuff and poor options where you have to choose the least worst...just do your best.

Gay40 · 17/03/2012 22:47

I don't think there's any genuine moderate Christian denomination in the world that would condone your husband's abuse of you, and that would prevent you having another loving relationship down the line.
Be guided by your real religion.

garlicbutter · 18/03/2012 00:06

Oh, Beautiful, you're going through so much just now. I'm glad the veil has been lifted from you, because - as you are now starting to see - the man you were unfortunate to marry is not capable of living as you would expect and deserve, and would damage his children long-term. It's very shocking when you do start to see; you need to be as gentle with yourself as you would be to another person in shock.

I can't over-stress the value of reaching for as much appropriate support as you can muster. It's kind of similar to finding yourself in a new country, where the language is strange and customs are different - so much to take in at once! Talking to a counselling service like Womens Aid can be like finding a guide who knows the place well :)

This is completely the wrong time to be worrying about future relationships. Your church elders will be able to inform you, I'm sure, but making your self and your children safe must come first. If it's any comfort, I believe the Brethren would accept remarriage in your case provided you were able to 'repent' (on which you would get guidance). The Catholic church would place some restrictions on your worship if you remarried, unless you were granted an ecclesiastical annulment - which may well be possible.

For now, though, your priority is to gently improve that new eyesight of yours and gather support around you!

Do take care of yourself, please, You are in shock. x

RabidEchidna · 18/03/2012 00:10

Tell him if he keeps doing it you will cut his fucking hands off

garlicbutter · 18/03/2012 00:23

Lol, Rabid, I'll go over and do it!

I was wondering whether to add any more about this, as I'm not an expert. I am aware, though, of several marriages that various churches have declared void owing to continued abuse. The general concept of bibilcal 'adultery' is that the sinning partner has not engaged in a christian marriage at all. This is actually more clear-cut than infidelity, which can be put down to an episode of weakness. If one partner has continually behaved with contempt to their spouse, they never have been 'married'.

The way this reasoning plays out varies by church and by region. I gather US administrations tend to be harsher than European ones. But I've known people get annulments for abuse over there, too.

Lueji · 18/03/2012 00:39

Garlic has a point.

That could be something that you, beautiful, could discuss with your elders.

He isn't a bad person, he has no role model, he's lost too
Assuming that is true, he is still hurting you.
Society puts such people in jail or mental institutions. It doesn't allow people who harm others to live in the midst of society, regardless of the causes.

Why should you allow the person who hurts you (and your children) to live with you?

Just because it's a crime done in private, it doesn't mean it's less of a crime.

PooPooInMyToes · 18/03/2012 09:44

He's lost?!

You're making excuses for him. Do you think that every person who does something awful is "lost"? Or does this only apply to those with religion? That's a serious question.

This man isn't going through a bad time. He hasn't suddenly changed. He has always been like this. He did this to you years ago when you were first dating. You're making excuses for him. He doesn't deserve them.

He is not lost . . . He's an abusive, sick, evil c*!

Oh and its quite normal not to flush the loo and you shouldn't be called disgusting for it. I've even forgotten to do it when I've changed my tampon before, and my dh faints at the sight of blood and he STILL didn't call me disgusting.

As for not having another relationship . . . I don't feel particularly happy with a religion which would deny a person happiness because they had the misfortune of marrying an abusive person. It means you get punished for their actions. Its quite clear that your religion means a LOT to you which i can't really relate to, but would you consider perhaps joining a different church which wouldn't punish you in this way?

Sorry to sound ignorant but the way you speak about you religion and the elders and the way they have so much control over your life all sounds a bit cult like. It makes me uncomfortable for you and i can't not say that.

Gay40 · 18/03/2012 11:38

In essence, all religions are cults, though. But some are more damaging than others.

garlicbutter · 18/03/2012 12:27

He is lost. So was Beautiful. Her church 'saved' her, in that she learned about compassionate love and gained a family, so to speak, of folks who do their best to live blamelessly. It didn't manage to save her husband - perhaps he refused to be saved, and/or perhaps the problems run deeper than he will admit.

Most churches will say he might still be saved. But not a single one would say it's Beautiful's job to do that work. It's between him and god. Meanwhile, part of Beautiful's challenge might be to realise the sacrifices god requires of her are things like time, effort and vanity - not her own soul, mental health and those of her children. God loves you, Beautiful, and you are worthy. You're not "disgusting", you deserve to be loved in this life as honestly as you love, and your DC deserve to grow up wrapped in security.

I hope your elders keep you safe and add to your support. All the best.

AnyFucker · 18/03/2012 12:56

Neither me nor DH flush the loo when any of us are sleeping or if we use it during the night

There is nothing disgusting about that