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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sensitive question about H

709 replies

ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 11:52

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

Blush in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

OP posts:
lickatysplit · 17/03/2012 07:50

Firstly so sorry for what you?ve been through and hope you continue to seek the support you need both on here and with RC when you feel up to it. You deserve so much better, please don?t think you have to stay with this man for the sake of other people, be true to yourself. I?ve been up most of the night reading this whole thread, seriously shocked at some of the views, I can only assume that the posters on side with this so called ?d? h are struggling to accept their own partners sexual deviousness, I wish you courage and strength. Seeing that so many women are rationalising this is deeply upsetting, bogeymen come in all shapes and sizes just because he?s reading the kids bedtime stories and emptying the dishwasher doesn?t make him any less of a monster.

After a drunken night out with my now ex we returned home and were getting frisky on the edge of the bed, he nipped to the loo and when he returned I?d half drifted off to sleep, he kissed my neck and called for me to wake up a few times I could hear him but had no energy to respond, he removed my shoes and jeans, scooped me up to the top of the bed under the duvet and fell asleep whist cuddling me. He was still hard I could feel it but he put my needs first ahead of his erection, the actions of a decent, caring man.

It would never occur to him to think of MY body as fair game and to force himself inside of me even thought I had already given consent, I was now in an unconscious state consent had gone out the window. Incidentally whilst this cretin thought his partner was up for it didn?t it once dawn on him that she wasn?t enjoying it, no moans of pleasure, passionate kisses, no he was finished before op had the chance to wipe the sleep from her eyes. Of the few men I?ve been with they?ve all checked I?m having a good time. He knew exactly what he was doing.

mathanxiety · 17/03/2012 08:08

'It's only when you point it out to him that he sees how his actions could be construed.'

Nobody is that thick, Pandas.
He knows well what he is doing. He does it because he thinks you are his property, that he is entitled to use you however he wants. When it comes to his sexuality, this is what turns him on, and the fact that you are a living, breathing human being with feelings and a body separate from his is not that important to him.

I also think you need to ask yourself if you have been slipped a mickey finn of some sort as QH said, either this time or on previous occasions.

'A key factor is that this man is not interested in having sex with you the way you would like it. He won't have sex with you when you are conscious and interested and willing. He wants you unconscious. This shows very clearly how he sees you: an object that exists for his benefit.
And this is not at all, in any way, down to him being 'frustrated' that you won't 'let him' have sex on you more often. He doesn't want your participation in the act.
I think he is potentially very dangerous indeed.'
I absolutely agree with SGB here.

'He was really stunned by what I was saying. He was adamant that he thought I was awake when he had sex with me. He did admit that I was asleep when he first used his fingers but said he was just trying to turn me on. he basically said he thought I liked it.'

You are being gaslighted. And the digs before he left were done in order to intimidate you. He is completely in control of himself here, both when he rapes you and when he speaks to you in broad daylight. It is all of a piece. He doesn't like you very much and he doesn't like the children either if he would treat their mother like this in front of them.

He is using rape porn. He may also have something going on on nights when he is late from work.
............................................
The attack word in the brochure refers to the attack on your spirit that is inherent in any rape. It isn't meant to convey being physically beaten or bruised in every case of rape, more to convey the way you felt your head had been done in the morning after. This was your spirit trying to deal with the wound he inflicted on it. Rape is a form of annihilation of the victim. Everything in you is resisting that attempted annihilation.

Pandas try not to panic, try not to look too far into the future. Everything you say about practical matters and your parents and his parents what that is is fear of the Unknown. You know something is very wrong here in your life and you have always felt that about your H's porn use and the fact that he has continued to use it when you have made your feelings known to him. There is something very strong and courageous inside you, a voice that is demanding to be heard, trying to connect with you constantly -- there is unfortunately another voice, perhaps from your childhood, telling you not to bother people because it is just you and your problems and you and your problems don't matter. The real you is claiming the limelight now.

You need to take one day at a time here. When the Lundy Bancroft book arrives, take the time to read it. You can sit down and call the Samaritans and then the Rape Crisis line and Women's Aid any time. You don't have to use the R word. (Women's Aid are usually busy unfortunately, but you can e-mail or leave a message). Rape Crisis are not open 24/7.

I also think you should make an appointment with your GP, and second the advice that you could have something typed out to hand to him or her when you get there (your OP from this thread for instance) if you think you would just freeze when you're face to face in the office.

mathanxiety · 17/03/2012 08:54

'He was saying about him not being allowed to have any feelings.'

Your H experiences any reminder that other people have feelings (or even bodies of their own) and boundaries that should be respected, as an attack. He was telling you there that because you have feelings and have expressed them means that he and his feelings are squeezed out or inconsequential.

The important thing to realise here is that there is only room for the feelings of one person when you are in a relationship with someone like this; that person is him and those feelings are his. Not you, or your feelings. His body is the only one that is important here -- not you or yours.

====> If he is to survive and thrive emotionally in this reationship, then you have to be erased on many levels.

NettleTea · 17/03/2012 09:57

In regards to the question about PND and abuse, I am not sure of the statistics but I am sure I have read that in an abusive relationship the chances of PND are much much higher. Or that PND is often blamed as a reason for depression after the birth of a child but it later turns out to be due to the mother being abused.
I wouldnt know as far as 'real' pnd, because I thought it was down to a measurable chemical imbalance. However fear and sorrow can flood the body with enough chemicals to seriously mess around with your physiology, and it is widely acknowledged nowdays that there is a definate link between the psychological and physiological, as well as the immune system. The 'fight or flight' response creates a huge input of adrenalin - hence that awful gut wrenching feeling, the butterflies, the sick in the pit of the stomach. Being kept in a constant state of 'high alert', or even a low level increase in adrenal hormones can mess up all your other hormonal chemical cycles, as they are all part of feedback mechanisms. Even the chemicals in the brain are affected. If put under stress for too long, some of these systems can just fail, which does seem to show with the high number of women who are trying to cope with living in an abusive relationship, suffer from stress related conditions, low immunity or autoimmune/inflammatory probles as well as the mental health issues. We recognise it in animals who are mistreated - animals gnawing at the bars of their cages, pacing up and down their enclosures, or standing immobile in a corner with their fur all unkempt- why should humans be any different.

ThreeLittlePandas · 17/03/2012 12:56

Sorry, don't have many words today. Really low. He says it's because he doesn't love me anymore. He doesn't find me attractive. But he doesn't want to break up our family. I'm devestated.

I'm reading every post btw. There is so much truth in your words.

OP posts:
fabwoman · 17/03/2012 13:04

That is shocking but at least you know what you are dealing with now.

Maybe he should leave for a bit.

AnyFucker · 17/03/2012 13:09

Oh my goodness, TLP

he is breaking up your family, love

what does he expect you to do now ?

live with someone who doesn't love her, but uses her body while she sleeps ?

that isn't a family that is two people living in an abusive situation, with kids being forced to live in it too

Charbon · 17/03/2012 13:20

He's not doing this because he doesn't love you pandas.

But he wouldn't be doing this to you if he did.

There's the difference.

He knows that there's nowhere to go now in your marriage, now he's admitted he doesn't love you. He knows that no-one with any self-respect would stay in a marriage where she isn't loved.

I suspect there's a lot more going on his life that you don't know about.

You didn't need any further catalyst or permission to leave, but this has strengthened it.

Time to work through the finances and end the marriage now pandas. I'm sorry you're feeling so low, but you will one day look back and regard his admission as a gift.

PooPooInMyToes · 17/03/2012 13:28

I think he has said that to try to scare you. Panic you into letting it drop.

I mean for fuck sake! Not loving someone or fancying them doesn't make you have sex with their sleeping body! It doesn't even make sense!

AnyFucker · 17/03/2012 13:31

No, it doesn't make sense

He is either doing as Poo says, and trying to scare you into submission (and accepting of future violations of your body)

or, he actually hates you, which is very different than "not loving" someone

why does he think an admission of not loving you mitigates anything ? Does he mean you being asleep while he shags you is his version of putting a bag over head ? I mean, this bloke is just a fucking dick isn't he ?

he certainly hates women

AnyFucker · 17/03/2012 13:32

putting a bag over your head

solidgoldbrass · 17/03/2012 13:37

He's trying to frighten you into accepting his repeated sexual abuse of your body. Remember that if anyone's entitled to say 'I don't love you any more' it's you - what is lovable about someone who has sex on you while you're unconscious?

camaleon · 17/03/2012 13:37

So, is he acknowledging that he does this on purpose now, knowing that you are sleeping but doing it because he 'does not love you anymore'? Or is this explanation given in a different context (e.g. lack of sex in general)?
I have not a clue about what this may be like for you, but it seems that you are advancing many steps in the right direction. Good luck

AnyFucker · 17/03/2012 13:42

Any "misunderstanding" that this man just didn't quite realise that what he was doing is wrong (hello there, rape apologists...stick that in your pipe etc) and we should give him the benefit of the doubt on that score, is blown out of the water now

HereIGo · 17/03/2012 13:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PooPooInMyToes · 17/03/2012 14:00

Perhaps you should ask him if he has sex with the bodies of ALL the people he knows who he doesn't fancy? Of course he doesn't. Its one of the most stupid defences I've ever heard.

I think you need to take back some of the power. He's been having sex with against your will. He's now decided he doesn't love you any more. He's now decided that he won't be leaving you despite these things . . .

Er actually he will! Its your choice too! MAKE HIM LEAVE!

CailinDana · 17/03/2012 14:09

So he's saying he raped you because he doesn't find you attractive??? That is unbelievably cruel. Just horrible. My heart is aching for you op.
I honestly wish i could just give you a hug. You are worth so much more than this.

PooPooInMyToes · 17/03/2012 14:24

Where abouts are you op?

fabwoman · 17/03/2012 14:26

Let us help you.

oikopolis · 17/03/2012 14:37

Oh TLP. I cannot believe what this fucker is putting you through.

I beg you to seek counselling. You need to talk to someone about what he is saying to you. You need a RL witness.

This man wants you to shut up out of fear of "breaking up the family" or being alone, so he can continue doing what he pleases and you become more and more erased and despairing with each passing day.

I cannot bear the thought of that happening to you.

Please talk to your GP and ask for referral to the mental health team or the crisis intervention team, or call Rape Crisis or Women's Aid. He is abusing you now, not only sexually but psychologically, it's so black and white it's sickening. they will give you strength. What he is saying to you now is just brutality, pure and simple, and it will grind you down if you go without help.

PLEASE call Rape Crisis or Women's Aid.

Thinking of you constantly today.

ThreeLittlePandas · 17/03/2012 14:48

Poo, I'm in the northwest of England.

I'm don't know what to say. I've ended up crying in front of him and I said I know it must have been hard for him while I was ill. I found myself talking about how marriages need to be worked at.

The truth is I am a basket case. You're all so kind but if you really knew me and knew what hard work I am then you might think differently. Nobody else would have put up with the shit he has.

OP posts:
UnlikelyAmazonian · 17/03/2012 14:49

Have come a bit late to this thread OP. So sorry to hear your anguish.

These 'silent' rapists as I think of them (similar experience) are insidious and soul-destroying. They literally take your soul and wring it out. They are users and abusers, disguised as nice husbands/partners. Vampires of the soul.

When they know the game is up, they usually shuffle off taking their skewed fantasies, skanky collection of condoms and KY with them to find their next victim. Usually she is younger than the previous partner and more malleable.

You and your children will be so very much a trilliion squillion times happier when this person is out of your home head and bed.

I for one am already raising a glass to your future. You are going to get out of this prison marriage. xx

camaleon · 17/03/2012 14:53

I am not sure we can help you on-line. I believe you need real life support now. You are in a very bad place and doing this alone must be close to impossible. Try those numbers

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 17/03/2012 14:54

Who has told you, you are hardwork?

You do know that no matter what you may have been through, what problems you may have had You. Did. Not. Deserve. To. Be. Raped.

oikopolis · 17/03/2012 14:59

NO-ONE is hard enough work that their husband can say to them

"well i don't like you anymore, so i rape you in your sleep"

...and that would be OK.

You are being mind-fucked TLP. Don't let this carry on. I know you feel weak, I know you feel guilty, but PLEASE get RL help, wool is being pulled over your eyes here in the most shocking way.

What harm would it do to ring Women's Aid or Rape Crisis or even the Samaritans? After all you are feeling utterly terrible... and are in the house with someone who says they don't love you... so why not reach out for help from somewhere else? kwim?

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