Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 7

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

Whoever I am is good enough if I would only be it openly - Carl Rodgers

Ladies I hope you are all keeping well and learning to love who you are.

Evacuation, Wrenner, Sweep You all sound so strong and funny and manage to look after the little ones (single-handedly!) whilst also managing damage limitation from your partners very well. Just imagine what you are capable of... without the damage limitation! Keep well xx

bighouse - Loving you happily ever after - that is the way it should be :)

singlenow - Good for you! Nice to see you here (though sorry also) There is much to learn from these strong women, Welcome xx

Annie in my logical detached brain I know that yes, it is more than enough reason to LTB

But the way this is played out in our relationship is that the reason I hadnt got enough money is because I am was struggling to pay off a loan that was the amalgamation of a number of smaller loans taken out of the years to pay for bits and pieces. Some of this was personal spending of course, but a good whack of it was because I was supporting us. I was the main earner, I had graduated a few years before him and got a good job and was working hard so got promoted quickly etc. I bought my own house, which he pressured me into allowing him to move into, but as he was still a student he couldn't share the expense of this - nor would I have expected him to. I was happy to put more in to household expenses whilst he was on a low wage and we did not have joint finances as such because we were simply living together, not yet married or even engaged. However when he graduated and his salary gradually increased he didn't put more in to the pot. Move on to when dc2 arrives, I'd saved up from my own salary every penny for my share of the bills in advance of both sets of maternity leave, each time a whole year of contributions - h would not contribute more to the pot because he couldn't afford to (funny that, the loan he'd taken out for his new flasher car that hadn't even needed changing was taking up "all" of his spare cash) plus paying all of the nursery fees up until dc2 arrived. At that point he agreed that he'd a) put more into the pot and b) pay towards nursery. But my god this was done begrudgingly and 4 years on I still have to ask him for the money each month, he won't just set up a standing order or anything easy!

So it was my own fault I couldn't afford lunch. Because I had accrued a relatively large debt that I am still clearing, and that I will continue to pay for another 4 years although he thinks its only two. He would hit the roof if he found out.

And its only in recent times I have realised that this isn't right. He will argue all this away, with other mitigating factors, but the upshot is that he makes me feel like the things he wanted to buy (and there are lots of them) are more important than me. And seeing whether this is abusive or not is something I am still massively struggling with because his arguments sound so plausible.

I cling on to the fact that when if we get divorced, with whatever the settlement is I can pay it off entirely.

Goodness I have got so much to say at the moment. Soz!

Don't apologize, Warden. We are all in the same boat. It just means that we can go on at length, too sympathize wholeheartedly.
I have separated our finances completely. I will be a whole lot less well off, but solvent, and it will stop FWH helping himself without telling me.
Can I advise to to start doing the same ASAP, regardless of what you decide?

EW thankyou for thinking about me I too was wondering where you were. But I could have copied and pasted your posts onto my name, I think we are definately at the same point in the tunnel of shit. We too still have sex, but I feel nothing and I mean nothing. I feel like a big failure, this is why I havnt posted in a while, I have received really great advice from everyone on here yet I am still here, still moaning and unable to make a decision on anything. I'm not functioning properly at work and feel like my life is about to come crashing down around me.

He is trying, he is better than he has been. He is not as verbally abusive as he has been and is alot better with the kids. So if I now say I want to seperate, its my fault I'm to blame, he is trying and I am not. He genuinely does believe this too, the look of hurt you talked about Evac is exactly the same in him, though I think it would turn to anger with my H.

I long to be loved, valued and respected but I am in a place now where I feel resigned to this is it, I've even found myself looking at bereavement threads to try and make myself think my life could be alot worse, look at these poor people who have lost their children, I should think myself lucky.

I also imagine accidents happening so the decision is made for me - how awful is that, I feel guilty just typing it. This has been such a moaney post, I knew it would be, sorry everyone.

Evac, I really feel for you and understand what you are going through.

Love to you all IWBF

Hi IWBF, I know all about not functioning at work. The last two years have been so bad that I am surprised I have not got a warning :( Guess what? As soon as I decided to get rid, my performance has improved 200%. This is not nearly as important as the fact that I have been loving my job again - I am actually happy at work - I had forgotten what it felt like.
Start by behaving like you are leaving - the believing will come later - I am not even completely there myself, but that has not stopped my making all the financial, legal, and practical arrangements.

Hi arth

Thats what I am worried about, everytime my boss so much as looks at me my heart sinks thinking I've been found out.
Believing I am leaving is something I will try, thanks for the idea!

IWBF xxx

EvacuationWarden I keep thinking of this line you wrote:

"At the moment I think that marriage is an utter sham and only serves to keep women tied to men that probably hate them on some level."

That is EXACTLY something I have said in the past, on so many levels, without even thinking that it was wrong or was a bad reflection on my marriage. I remember a conversation with a friend last year where I was saying that I think perhaps the whole sexual dynamic between men and women is really based on the fact that they just hate each other deep down. I totally believed it! It fed my feminist thinking and everything!

Now I look back and thinking: This is FUCKED UP. And SAD. :(

This is what I am trying to do.. Make plans hense massive drive next week! Evac- do u have seperate accounts ? Finding the dcs hard today with spaghetti brain

"I also imagine accidents happening so the decision is made for me - how awful is that, I feel guilty just typing it."

Thank goodness I am not alone with these angry thoughts... but he has admitted having the same about me

Wobbly- did ic help u?

I remember walking out of Tesco into the car park and thinking that if I walked under a bus I wouldn't have to go home and "have a talk". That was a low point and made me realise I had to have an escape plan.
I got savaged on here for admitting I wished FWH would suddenly die and solve all my problems! But it was just a sign I was so desperate I needed to get out!

Do u think making a journal of what's said will help me?? Feels so little and often that if I don't recognise then feel depressed again but don't know why?! Said a few choice comments last night too me which just makes me feel the whole thing is pointless and he will never change!

Wrenner, ic is very helpful. But it takes time and is like everything else: what you put in (how courageous and honest you are in facing stuff) is what you get out. And the times that you DON'T want to go? Are the times you need to remember your commitment to yourself and go most of all - because you have hit some hard stuff that is painful.

I am not the person I was 3 years ago. I don't take s* from anybody any more. I no longer bow down and hand my power over. I no longer assume everyone else is super perfect/organised/sorted and I am below everyone else. I am no longer passive, and wait for others to deign me with their presence/attention. [Children of narcissists you-are-invisible legacy].

That [owning my feelings, giving myself permission to have them and to have space, and to act on it] has made me a much better partner and friend, too.

Wrenner just to add: at the moment I am working on staying very calm, and reiterating my points, without being sidetracked from my issue/falling into the trap of getting emotional.

This is my biggest hurdle, and I MUST master and I am working hard on. Once I can do this, I will know that I am fully centred, in ownership of myself and having clear boundaries. And it must all be in with RESPECT and CALM. Respect for me, and respect for him.

Wobbly- IC sounds like hard work, so glad you are benefiting from your effort. I understand what you mean about assuming everyone else is perfect/organised/sorted- and the more I think about this the more it makes me question my family life and why I should feel this way. Scary stuff.

We had a major moment this morning. We drive to work together and he asked what was up. (err "you tried to get a bit fruity in bed this morning, I wasn't up for it and you got cross about it and sulked from that point until now") Conversation progressed until he said "Do you want me to move out for a while?" - and when I said yes he hastily backtracked and said only if I would pay for it, he was not going to pay for a rental flat or something because he didn't want to move out. I suggested he stay with his mum for a few weeks just to see how the land lies but he refused as he didn't want her to have to get involved.

He's told me now to let him know when I decide what I want to happen next. Head is in pieces and can barely function at work.

Sounds right where I want to be! good for you... Are u still with him? I find this too.. I get sidelined from the point I'm making and get very cross and shout! It makes me feel insane! I have been angry today to and horrible to dcs. Feel crap all round really.

Evacuation- you have told him what you want and have given him options!!!! this is what they do isn't it?! Twist it all!!! Feel for you at work.. I personally can't wait to get away next week! Sounds like space would do you good too.

Hi EW. :( You must function at work.
If he won't go, he won't go.
BUT - and this is only what I did. Start pretending in your own head that you are over and act accordingly. Close all accounts, cards - anything in joint names. Go to a lawyer and set divorce proceedings in action. You don't have to believe you are doing it, You can pretend that none of it is real.
I still don't really believe any of it.
BUT just doing it has set me (almost free)
Final hearing on 5th April :)

I'm trying hard to detach from him, not get involved in rows or arguments etc. But this feels so wrong, I don't feel in my head that I am justified in splitting us up. I feel like someone is who is putting on a cold mean face because they don't care and is using the suggestion of EA to try and justify it internally. Someone else upthread (sorry I can't remember who!) said that now their H was actually trying and making an effort and things had been a bit better, they felt even worse at the the thought of leaving because now he's Mr. Perfect. I feel that way too. I told him this morning that all the little things he does that he knows hurts me, add up and erode my love a teeny bit each time- and now I am scared that there is not enough left to make me want to make things work. I suggested counselling again but he's point blank refused.

But is it emotional abuse, or just me having had enough of him and not having the courage of my convictions to see things through? I know other people will say it doesn't matter what the reason you want to leave, if you are unhappy you have the right to call time on the relationship. But it matters to me.

Fingers you're right though- off to pull my weight at work now!

Of course the relationship matters...you have poured yourself out to him, made yourself someone different to cater to him, invested yourself in him and in the future you believe(d) you would have!

The question is, can your relationship be something that delivers on the investment you have made? Can he nurture, grow and protect you, can you love and care for him? Can it work as a marriage?? Or is it just the artists impression of a relationship...like a stage set, with nothing behind it? You can't make something real that isn't there. Not on your own.

Time apart would give you some clarity, it is easier to be yourself and to see what is going on when you don't have to keep "the stage set" up and running. If you decide it is salvageable/meaningful you/he can always return.

We had lunch together.

He's asked me to put it in writing that I want him to move out for a bit. WTaF? Is he my boss and I have to submit requests formally in writing to him?? Or is this something to do with divorce proceedings that he is doing?

He says that unless I do this he is going nowhere.

Ew, he is a wanker.

Tell him it will be in writing via a solicitor x

EW Don't like the sound of this. Get control. Go to a lawyer, whatever the cost and whatever the outcome. Take the gloves off and see how he behaves. These FWs are bullies through and through. The only way to deal with them is to stand up to them

"I suggested counselling again but he's point blank refused."

So make that clear. 'I' want us to go to counselling. Then second thing: even if YOU don't, 'I' am still going.

EW, you really do need an calm, non-angry MN advocate in your life, otherwise you just tie yourself into the same dance. And funnily enough, leaving can often be part of the dance.

You going to counselling is the clearest message that can be sent, and often knocks them out of their denial (about your unhappiness/the relationship being in trouble).

I really would do what Arth says also, about separating accounts etc.

Regarding the debt? No doubt you are married in community of property. So he will be paying half, he he he.

Out of interest, why what constituted the debt? You supporting him the house and its contents, perhaps?