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Original poster

Sooooo here goes: I really fancy a man whose wife died of cancer three weeks ago..what to do

256 replies

hopefulflusteredguilty · 01/03/2012 13:22

Have name-changed for this because, oh because I just have. Here's my story - would so appreciate thoughts and advice.

One of my closest friend's sister died of cancer three weeks ago. She left two young boys (6 and 10). My friend is bereft - they were the closest of sisters and of families and she herself (ie friend) has severe health problems, a young child of her own and financial challenges. I have been, and still am, full of compassion and sadness for her and I have done all I can to support her.

When I went to the funeral and prayers (Jewish, so prayers held at deceased person's house for two nights)I was struck by how nice the husband was. I was at school with him but I have not seen him for some thirty years (yes I am ancient). Then when I went to visit my friend, she asked that I visit her at her sister's house because my ds is a similiar age to her late sister's boys, and she didnt want her brother-in-law, who is of course grief-stricken, to be alone on weekends. But there was a connection, a definite and distinct vibe between me and the mourning husband. I've seen him once more, again when I was visiting my friend, and the impression was confirmed.

So what do I do ? I want to respect this man's grief, I dont want to hurt my friend in any way but I also have a strong sense that this man will be involved with someone very soon - and that he likes me. I've been single for some eight months under horrible circumstances (long story but essentially DP left me and DS and havent seen him since) and I know my judgement is skewed ie I am still trying to recover from what has happened to my family.

Would really appreciate advice, especially from someone who knows what it is to lose a loving spouse and can tell me what they would have wanted.

OP posts:
Rindercella · 02/03/2012 12:17

How am I smug Wamster? I was agreeing with the OP that the (very recent) widower may well have been looking at the OP in a certain way. And may well have been considering shagging her (a shag is a shag - I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here?). I have offered absolutely no judgement on the man, just on the very selfish attitude displayed by the OP in her posts.

The OP stated very early on that the man is indeed 'grief-stricken', so I don't think there are any assumptions being made about him being umm, grief stricken at his wife's death. It would not just be about her actual death either. It would be about the lead up to that - the time she was diagnosed, and then what cancer ultimately does to her body. It is not a nice thing to witness and to deal with. Other widow/ers I have known have suffered from PTSD following caring for their terminally ill partners. And of course it will be about helping his children come to terms with losing their mother at such a young age and helping them through their grief (although of course, she might have been such a bitch to them they were also relieved when she died).

SGB - I agree. Unfortunately for me, thus far the surprising advance has come in the guise of a 70 year old odd job man who puts aftershave on before he comes to do odd jobs for me! Wish it was a fit 40 year old, then I might be interested Grin

HereIGo · 02/03/2012 12:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HarderToKidnap · 02/03/2012 12:49

Two words: shivah dolly. A woman who goes to the shivah of the deceased with a view to hooking the widower left behind.

This isn't pleasant behaviour but seems to, in your case, be coming out of a feeling of anxiety that he will be snapped up by someone else before you can get in there. In which case, it might make sense in your mind to get moving on him now, but really, it's a bloody awful idea. Can you stay in touch with him on a friendly/supportive basis, or are your feelings too strong?

SpringHeeledJack · 02/03/2012 12:51

I KNEW THERE WOULD BE A SPECIAL NAME FOR IT

Wamster · 02/03/2012 12:52

I don't see it as being 'unfair' or 'fair'; it's just how it is. There is nothing to stop a widow having another relationship, it's just perhaps they don't want one.
I think that is how men are, really, they'll just move on with life. They're the sensible ones.

A lot of older women don't want sex, either, obviously some do but not as much as men who seem to want it whatever the age. I remember a lady in her 70's telling me (goodness knows why, people tend to tell me personal things. Lord knows I did not ask her about her sex life!!) that she had met a man of 70 but that she wouldn't allow him to have any 'funny business' with her.

I thought 'that won't last long' and I was right.

SarahDoctorIndyHouse · 02/03/2012 12:57

Harder that term is a new one on me (but it gets the point across very well!)

I am assuming from this that you are Jewish (as am I), but I don't think there is any indication that the OP is, is there? Obviously her friend is...

Propinquity · 02/03/2012 14:59

This thread is a poor example of why Mumsnet has a reputation for being populated by coldhearted bitches :(

Out of all of it, only the usual good sense from SGB and a couple of others, and chitchatflyingby, is highlighted for me simply because they managed to offer their opinion without presumption towards the OP.

I have no experience as a widow, but plenty indirectly, being the former partner of a funeral director. Grief does strange things to people, those who have lost, and everyone around them.

OP, I echo chitchatflyingby's comments, I susoect out of all the replies, that one will resonate most with what you are trying to figure out in your head.

Rindercella · 02/03/2012 15:58

I know that at 3 weeks after my husband dying of cancer (he had told me not to live in his memory - to live my life and find a new partner), my thoughts were all over the place. I would think that I could never, ever trust another man again, that they were all bastards (admittedly this might be because I frequent MN a lot Grin). I would think that I could never sleep with another man again. I would cry at my loss. I would feel desperate for sex. I would cry at my DH's loss - wondering how he could have coped with knowing he wouldn't see his children growing up. I would think that any man I introduced to my children would be a paedophile. I would cry and remember the pain he was in and the nursing we had to do for him. I would cry for my tiny children's loss. I would be desperate for companionship. I would miss him so, so much. All of these thoughts could enter my mind over the course of just a few minutes (and still do, nearly 11 months later).

Of course everyone is different: every relationship is different and so we are all going to cope with our losses in different ways. What this man might need is a companion to help him through. But I really (and this is not meant unkindly) do not think that the OP is the person to do it. The reason why is that she is not being honest in her motives: just by saying she will be altruistic does not make it so. There are some very vulnerable people involved here and the OP has already said she herself has been through a traumatic time. And her motives for pursing him appear to be so nobody else gets their hands on him. Why not allow him to have time and let things happen in their own time?

OracleInaCoracle · 02/03/2012 16:42

Propinquity, I don't believe that mn has a reputationm for being frequented by "cold hearted bitches" quite the opposite. And there is no cold hearted bitchery on this thread. Mn has a reputation for not pandering or softsoaping. That is not the same.

OhChristFENTON · 02/03/2012 16:44

And sometimes posters who appear to make good sense on one thread can be cold hearted bitches on another, - depends on the subject matter.

OrdinarySoup · 02/03/2012 16:52

Speaking as a daughter who lost her mother 6 weeks ago, I cannot imagine how his 2 very young children would cope with seeing a new woman being brought into the fold. I can imagine at any time it would be difficult but so soon after their mother's death? If you really care for him, OP, then you need to be the "grown up" and not encourage a situation that will have huge repercussions for him (and his grieving process) and his family. I know he is an adult and able to make his own decisions, but you know that he is vulnerable and must know that his decisions will (probably) be imperfect right now. Pursuing him now would be very selfish, I am afraid to say. Let it be - if it's right, it will happen at the right time.

naughtymummy · 02/03/2012 17:03

Sadly I know 3 widows of my age (36). One still missesher husband greatly 4 years later and would have never have been intersted in anything else 3 weeks after his death. The other was seeing her husband's best man within weeks. The third had met her future husband within 3 months. All three men died of cancer within months of diagnosis. Who knows what the widower in the OP is feeling. I would say there is a wide range of normal.

Rindercella · 02/03/2012 17:16

I actually think there has been a lot of compassion on this thread. Perhaps not towards the OP, but more towards a family in the desperate throes of bereavement - a recent widower, two very young children who have lost their mother and to a sister who has lost her beloved sister to this bastard disease.

I really dislike this notion that to be supportive you have to fully agree with 100% of what someone says. Perhaps I wasn't very kind up thread (for which I am sorry, truly), but the idea of a vulnerable woman, coming out of a difficult relationship going into a full on relationship with a very recently bereaved father of young children just doesn't seem to be a terribly good one. Especially because, based on her own words, her main motive seems to be to get in there before anyone else does.

Proudnscary · 02/03/2012 17:29

I'm Jewish and I have no doubt whatsoever the OP is for real!!

OracleInaCoracle · 02/03/2012 17:30

I really dislike this notion that to be supportive you have to fully agree with 100% of what someone says

I totally agree. I genuinely dont think anyone has been cold hearted, at all. maybe a little harsh, certainly not terribly supportive of the OPs "plan" but not cold hearted, just blunt and honest.

mamasin · 02/03/2012 17:37

I think that you may be confusing sympathy with the romantic notion of a lonely widower whom you can rescue. I think you should keep your distance so he can grieve and if it is meant to be it will happen. Corny, but appropriate. Throw yourself into other things, charity work or whatever to give you the feel good glow(please dont think Im patronising , i'm really not). What he needs is respectful acknowledgement of his loss. Maybe he needs sex, but it is not a great start to a relationship is it - being founded on the ruins of a very long and serious relationship? Hope I'm not being too harsh or too sentimental, but I've seen women jump at the chance to "help" when really they want to interfere.... Do nothing.

Northernlurker · 02/03/2012 17:44

'I really dislike this notion that to be supportive you have to fully agree with 100% of what someone says'

I totally agree too. Also with the notion that because you've posted people MUST agree with you or be 'mean'.

I also think that some posters should remember this is not the widower asking for views on starting again. I agree there is a wide range of totally normal for that. This is somebody asking what we think of her looking at a grieving man and think 'hmmmmm nice, let me get a slice of that before anyone else steals my shag thunder'!

OracleInaCoracle · 02/03/2012 17:53

I also think that some posters should remember this is not the widower asking for views on starting again. I agree there is a wide range of totally normal for that. This is somebody asking what we think of her looking at a grieving man and think 'hmmmmm nice, let me get a slice of that before anyone else steals my shag thunder'!

exactly what northernlurker said. and I would add, looking at a grieving man at his wife's funeral.

Maryz · 02/03/2012 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SarahDoctorIndyHouse · 02/03/2012 18:14

I'm Jewish and I have no doubt whatsoever the OP is for real!!

So am I, but again I am asking: what evidence do we have that the OP is Jewish other than that she has a friend who is? To turn the old phrase on its head: hardly any of my best friends are Jewish!!

(actually, several are, but I amusing a bit of artistic (?) licence here for humorous (??) effect

SarahDoctorIndyHouse · 02/03/2012 18:18

am using

naughtymummy · 02/03/2012 18:19

My post was in response to others saying he won't thinking about that yet. As far as OP goes she has a stark choice, she either backs off and risks losing him, but ultimately having amore fufilling relationship with him. Or she subtleylets him know she is availible and risks cagetting.seriously hurt either now or in the future. I was just making the point that some people areintersted in sex, shortly after being brereaved. So she wouldn't necessarily be rejected. We don't always do the mature and sensible thing in relationships. This man may be availible in the year some posters suggest waiting or he may not. In terms of the children I think it goes without saying that all adult behaviour should be in adult time. One of my freinds from school had lost her dad 5years before. Her mother had a sexual relationship with one of her father's freinds which the freind did not discover for 3 years. The children should be protected and the OP will have to be happy with a discrete relationship for some time

OracleInaCoracle · 02/03/2012 18:20

maryz, yep, exactly.

and what does being jewish have to do with the validity of the op? I'm a lapsed catholic, and I couldnt possibly comment.

SarahDoctorIndyHouse · 02/03/2012 18:28

and what does being jewish have to do with the validity of the op?

Good point Lissie and I was wondering that myself.

The meeting took place at a Jewish wake (shivah) and I guess it has been extrapolated from that, that she is Jewish herself. A bit upthread some one mentioned the term 'shivah dolly'...apparently someone who hangs around (Jewish) funerals hoping to get off with the widower (I wasn't familiar with the term) but I still don't see that the OP is ipso facto Jewish, or that it matters one way or the other (as you say) , or indeed that what she has described would be unque to Jewish women!

Rindercella · 02/03/2012 18:34

My last post was to point out that, regardless of the relationship with his late wife, we just cannot know what state of mind the widower is in. Having lived with a kind of living bereavement, I would guess that he is going through a myriad of emotions. Some of those might be sexual, seeking validation and proof that he is still attractive. It is probably wise to let him process all of those before making any kind of move.

And what NL said is absolutely spot on. In fact, had I posted on here 3 weeks after DH died saying that I met one of his brother's friends at DH's funeral and wanted to have a relationship with him, I think I would have got a load of Shock faces back and people (sensibly) telling me to take it slowly and not rush in. A shag is a shag is a shag. But I get the feeling that the OP is after something much more...