to feel really threatened by my OH's dead fiancee?

[badabing123]

Feel horrible writing this but it's beginning to eat me up inside.

Am a late 30something who is in a 1.5yr rel with a man whose late fiancee passed away with the Big C while she was in her mid 30s.
We actually met not long after she's passed away (4 months) - I'd come out of a 10yr rel which had been abusive and very sad-making six months earlier. But I pulled myself together and got out and since then have worked on getting my self esteem back and my life on track.
I'm happy, for the most part I am.

There may be some who think we got together too quickly; maybe we did who knows, but it felt right and we've largely kept under the radar and moved at our own pace. It is what it is.

We have a good relationship. In many ways, both our experiences of 'loss' have given us an understanding and greater compassion, I suppose. Or at least a determination to want to grasp happiness when it comes along. We both want to build a future together and one that involves kids which, as I am in my late 30s, is in some ways something of a relief.

But - and you knew there was a but coming! - however good our relationship is (and there are times I am so happy that I can almost touch the happiness it's so tangible) I am just eaten away by the thought, the fear that however good our relationship it will never bear the same significance as that with his dead fiancee.

1- I am happy for him to continue a relationship with her family, im supportive of this
2- I'm ok with photo of her out on show (i wouldnt think of objecting, though I'm relieved it's now only 2 photos instead of the 7 on the living room shelf when we met)
3 - Ive been supportive of the charitable fundraising he did in her memory.

I am saying the above to make clear that I dont think I am a 'bad person'. I am fair. But I just wonder where I fit in - sometimes there is just no space for me.

Things I object to (and yes, HATE)
1/Her facebook page still up and replete with photos of them together, beaches at sunset, Paris etc etc. Getting friend suggestions with her photo. (nb there's no way I can ask to take this down, it's not my place to do so, but its tremendously hurtful to see this and realise that the affectionate gestures I thought were for me are just replicas of those he gave her)

2/OH telling me that her final request had been that he call his first daughter after her. I replied 'No way'. Not doing that at all. His retort was that he wouldnt push it, was only repeating what she had said.

3/OH wanting her family to come to our wedding. I'm not happy with this; it's our day. I don't want to be there thinking that there are people there wishing I was someone else.

4/Gravestone wording: this was somewhat of an unexpected surprise before xmas as I had assumed this had all been done. Im absolutely sick at the prospect that the wording is going to include wording such as 'fiancee of'. I dont know, Im just dreading the worst what it could be.He doesnt know; its anyone's guess at this point, but it makes me feel sick even thnking about it. Even in death, it feels, she is still 'the one'.

I'm a good person: Someone dying of cancer at such a young age; it's deeply sad. I am sorry for her, Im sorry for her family and I am very touched by how my OH stood by her and supported her during such a difficult time.

But I'm not a stand-in; Im not a replacement.
I have talked these fears through calmly with my OH, he says I am absolutely not, that it's about us building a future. That our pasts are our past.

Yes, I totally get this. I mean, it's not like I had an easy time either (violent ex, mental cruelty) but I got up and moved on. It's not unreasonable to want to be 1st choice. Im not trying to vanquish his past, or remove her memory (not at all) but I feel there is no space for me.

He says he loves me and wants to have a future together - but you know, these things make me feel awful!!! I feel so awful.

What I am scared of most is how his past is not his past; it is always going to be part of the present and the future. We were getting on so well before xmas and then whoosh! news about the gravestone and all the fears (still unresolved) about that immediately surface. It feels like something to do with his past is always going to 'pop up' out of the blue and make me feel sh*t.

AIBU to want to be 1st choice? When I told him I wanted to feel this, for him to tell me that - he said I was being 'ridiculous', no one says stuff like that'. He says I am the one he wants to build a future with, but faced with a %$££%£% Facebook page filled with reams of endless romantic photos and other things besides - I am scared that eg even if we got married and had kids - I could never 'be enough'. I would always be thinking he was wishing I was her.

I am scared that because of my age I am settling for something that say 10 yrs ago I would have walked away from. I love him - but I hate his past.
I can accept that it's his past but I loathe the way it's coming into my present and my future.

Even worse, it is making me dislike HER (ashamed to admit this). As much as I objectively feel sorry for her I cant bear the hold she has now, even in death. And you can't compete with someone who is dead.

At least with an ex who is alive you can b*tch about them - but you can't do that when someone is dead. You just have to ...eat it?

AIBU? or how can I possibly deal with this better (without resorting to the vodka bottle :) )?

well, badabing, if that is how he makes you feel, then I am afraid you have your answer right there.

He doesn't have to tell her in so many words that she's second best - he's doing that in more subtle ways, in my opinion. Sorry, OP, but I think you need someone whose focus is on you. He needs friendship rather than a wife at the moment.

I married a widower whose wife had been killed 7 years earlier.

I gave birth to my children with her photo in his wallet, her books in our bookcase, her picture in our home. It was too painful for me to be 'second best'. The marriage only lasted a very short time.

Think very carefully. It's not just him you'd be taking but her too and don't assume that time will improve matters. Some people never adjust sufficiently to be able to move on.

wetaugust that is such a sad post.

I think is more about your own issues than your partners dead fiancee. Yes, being the 'new' person after a death is hard - after all whose imperfections are well remembered in death.

But.

1. They were engaged when she died. To prevent that from going on her headstone would be quite frankly ridiculous. You cannot change the past you can only move forward into the future, your joint future.

2. The name thing. Weird as a first name for one of your kids but as a middle name. I have a degree of sympathy with him. She was VERY important to him presumably for a long time. I'm sure you are too but you are still around and real.

3. His family - he will have known them for a long time. It is good that he has a good relationship with them. As others have said (springdaffs/ MrsDeVere) they too will be clinging to him as the last link to their daughter.

4. I doubt anyone in this tragic circumstances will be wasting emotional energy wishing you were her. Don't try to be her. Try to be YOU. Don't try to replicate their customs. Invent your own.

If your past leaves you unable to deal with these things you need to look inwardly to change it IMO.

Now an anecdote. One of my elderly male relatives lost his beloved only daughter about 20 years ago to breast ca. He was a widower as his wife also died of it. He and his son in law and always got on well and done lots of male bonding things together. His Son IL then met and married someone else and my relative got squeezed out. He was devastated. He'd lost his daughter. Now he was losing one of his buddies (for whom he was delighted about the relationship). When Son IL had children he was equally upset to not be allowed to meet them (they live in a small community so all is known) nor give gifts. He is a talented woodworker and every girl in our family has a dollhouse made by him. He started to make one for the first child but stopped after being told it wasn't' wanted.

I'm afraid I find such meanness of spirit to deprive an old sad man of pleasure in gift giving and seeing some young 'uns (as he would call them) larking about difficult to forgive. I truly believe it says more about the 'new wife' than about him.

He died recently and his SIL sneaked away from work to come to the funeral as his wife didn't want him to attend.

Oh and by the way - she isn't an EX she is dead. There relationship wasn't over when she died it was cut short. You need to learn to deal with this.

Sorry this is long and perhaps a bit harsh. I wish you all the best 'cos he sounds like a really nice man but don't rush headlong into something you aren't equipped to deal with.

I was the one in the relationship with the dead boyfriend. This has never been an issue as it is part of my past, just as my husband had his past. My boyfriend's parents are still very good friends and his mum, in particular, is like another mum to me. However, no photos are in my house and he is part of the past. I miss him sometimes but it was a different relationship, just as I love my children both as much, but differently. With my husband we are building a future not reliving the past. Give him time and have the confidence in yourself that he chose you and that you are here now. No amount of talk and photos can bring her back. Of course he misses her and, probably, remembers her with rose tinted spectacles - she is not the one moaning about his washing or sneezing with a winter bug. But it will get better and you do matter, I am sure. Tough situation but getting it out in the open always helps. Thinking of you.

OP I really feel for you and YANBU at all.

You are planning a life together and he needs to be in a place where you are taking the lion's share of his emotions and his heart.

I would not be happy about photos being displayed in a home we shared.
I would not be happy about honouring her memory by naming a child after her.
Her family would not be invited to the wedding any more that I would invite ex-family after divorce or separation other than partner's children.

I think some couples counselling might help you both to forge a new path together.

But another part of me thinks it shouldn't be such hard work 1.5 years in.

I don't mind if you tell me I'm reading way too much into things, but has it crossed your mind that your OH wanted to name your firstborn after his ex, and that it wasn't a last request at all? The fact he dropped it right away after witnessing your reaction could be attributed to either scenario, but it just seems such an odd thing to request and yet not that odd if it was actually him musing over the idea.

@MandyT68: your account of your situation is something I aspire to. I want to build a future too...have a clean run...respect the past but equally, not feel shackled to it. Exactly as you have said.How to get there?!

It's the 'getting confidence' bit which is really hard. It's true that too little time has passed, also that there are no guarantees at all if things will ever become less ?raw? I will totally ok then whooosh I will see the FB pg and then of course torment myself by looking. It's always there, it's the elephant in the room.
lurkerspeaks: he is a nice man...but I'm also a pretty ok person too! I want to have a future

This is a really long and very interesting thread, I'm sorry, I haven't got very far yet.

I just wanted to say, which has probabl;y been mentioned, that when you are in a relationship with someone who lost a previous partner or wife/husband through death, there is some thinking that you are always in a relationship containing three people.

I wonder if this is just something that you, or your partner even, are not able to contemplate directly.

There are differences between a partner who has pre-grieved to some extent and one who has not had this opportunity yet.

I would say (again, sorry if I am repeating something already suggested) that the biggest thing here is he did not choose to lose his fiancee, and neither did she choose to lose him. That's the difference between an ex who is still alive and one who isn't. The love and regret and wishing for them is still there.

and if someone still mourns an ex who dumped them at least you can say, well that relationship wasn't working if only one of you wanted it.

When both want it and it is taken from you, there is not that boundary, no resolution, no closure.

I think what struck me in your post was the thing about the naming of the child actually.

I don't know but in this situation, it does seem appropriate to consider it because this woman was, and is still part of him. And by loving him you need to encompass a love for that of her which remains in him.

maybe. I don't know. I don't think you can love him without loving and accepting his own love for his fiancee. I just don't see how they can be separated. You can't change how he feels about her.

I don't really get how a Facebook page can be the elephant in the room.

His bringing up the request about the daughter, his clear statement that you are not his first choice, his loyalty to her memory before your future, his wish to treat the people who would have been his in-laws as in-laws, all of those things I can see.

But the Facebook page is just an online archive of a small part of this woman's life. Just block it and don't look at it if it upsets you to see pictures of them together.

He can't do anything about the Facebook page, and he shouldn't seek to. Turning it into a memorial page might be nice, but that is for her family to do when they are ready. It shouldn't happen to make you feel better.

"I don't know but in this situation, it does seem appropriate to consider it because this woman was, and is still part of him."

But she was not, and never will be, part of any child they have together.

That's what having their own future means - letting life continue without her, because she has died.

She is a part of his past, and that can be honoured without trying to bring her into their shared future.

Why have you not blocked the facebook page? It is easily done and then you will have to not see the friend suggestion again.

I guess it's up to her immediate family if or when they take the page down but her friends might like to keep seeing it.

I haven't read the whole thread btw.Anyway-I had a good friend who died in a tragic accident.She was 35 and in a very very happy marriage,she had been with her dH since they were teenagers,they were trying for a baby when she died. He was a broken man for a few years,and I got very close to him,he is now my best male friend.He always swore he would never marry again,he reserved a place in her grave for himself,he was sure he would never want to be with anyone else.About 4 years after she died,he met a woman,fell in love with her,and very quickly got seriously involved.They now have three small children together and are happily married. Loving someone who is bereaved must be hard,I can understand your feelings,but this is a new life,it has gone along another tragectory.Yes,my friend would still be with his wife if she was alive,but she isn't,and he is lucky that he has found another woman he can really love. All his first wife's family,all his friends etc,we just wanted him to be happy again.The only thing that was hard was the attitude of his new wife towards friends and family of his first one.She also wouldn't have his sisters at their wedding,even though they really did think of my friend as a big brother.She was threatened and jealous and it caused a lot of upset to people who were grieving.Please don't go down that road.Look forward,accept that you are lucky to have found each other,and don't compare yourself with his previous fiance.All men you meet will have a past of some kind,some will have been dumped by someone they loved,all of us have a history.She is not a threat to you in any way.Just enjoy what you have.

I think you need to let him go and accept that he isn't ready for a whole-hearted relationship with you. You sound like a nice woman from what you've written, but resentment and insecurity has a way of making people smaller and less attractive over time. And I don't think you want to become that- after a horrible relationship in your past, you probably had to do quite a bit of work to build up your self-esteem. The last thing you need is to turn into a version of yourself that you don't like, and that's what this relationship is doing to you.

I really, really feel for you - such a tough place to be and there is no real way of knowing whether you would be better off staying or going.

I wanted to ask about the fb page. Does he continue to post on the wall and update with photo's, or is it something which just exists because it comforts her family? I think it would be reasonable for you to ask him not to add any more photo's.

Wrt the grave stone, if when you had met him, this had already been done and engraved with the word fiancee, you probably wouldn't have minded - it is what she was, after all. I think you would be wrong to object and would look to him as if you were trying to erase his past.

I think my approach if I was you, would be to decide what I am comfortable with and then tell him. If he's serious about building a life with you, he will put your feelings first. Obviously, you would need to be sensitive here, which is why I would not object to the gravestone, or the existence of the fb page, but I would ask him to stop posting on her wall and would, in no uncertain terms, point out to him that the name thing is wildly inappropriate. Your child is yours and his and not his dead fiancee's and he really shouldn't be trying to force her into the creation of a new family. I would also say a big no to going abroad to visit her family, having them involved with my children as 'grandparents' or inviting them to my wedding. How could they not wish it was their dd in your place - you shouldn't have to contend with their grief at your own wedding.

It's okay to love her and to love you. It is not okay to expect you to accept her as a third partner in the marriage. There needs to be some boundaries. I'm not sure her photo's should be on display if you two get a new house together. He can honour their past, without making her part of your day to day life together.

I think it is time for some frank talking - you are entitled to the same love and consideration that he gave her. If you tell him gently, but very honestly, how you feel and what you are prepared to accept and not accept, then you will learn from his response whether he is committed to a future with you or if he is still not ready.

You deserve good things - you sound utterly lovely and he is fortunate to have you.

The fact that you are already engaged and the headstone isn't even completed just highlights the speed at which your relationship has gathered.

The comment made about how much better he is compared to other men you know jumped out at me as well. It doesn't matter if he compares well; he needs to be right for you

Sorry I am referring back to a much earlier post (20.03)

And all that's on offer here is being a stand-in for a dead woman.

Obviously I do not know the OP's boyfriend but this seems harsh and judgemental on so many levels. I agree that the timing may not be the best but that does not mean to say that there aren't rich seams of potential to be mined.

I fully accept that I am perhaps taking this thread way too personally, but that is only because my circumstances back in the day were really very similar to the OP's and my experience has turned out (thus far anyway ) to be so positive. Obviously it may not be that way for everyone (my heart goes out to WetAugust ) but I hoped (am hoping) to give the OP some encouragement.

FWIW. DH and I do not have children together but I have to say if we did and he wanted to name a daughter after his first wife , well yes I would have been uncomfortable with that. However at our wedding (as I have said) we had loads of their joint friends celebrating with us; when people asked us what we wanted as wedding presents we asked for charity donations to his late wife's favourite charity and to the charity governing the illness from which she died. I felt perfectly comfortable with that!

Hellymelly speaks words of real wisdom, imho!

I would never in my wildest imaginings commit a partner to name a child after me if I died, I can't account for her thinking on this but you are NOT unreasonable to feel uncomfortable about this and NOT unreasonable or horrible to put your foot down on this part.

The other parts - gah, not sure but others have offered valuable perspectives. My gut feel is that your feelings DO matter though, if you're being overwhelmed by this it might suggest he isn't ready to move on.

The thing is, you should never have been in the position of having to put your foot down about naming a child after his dead fiancee.

It was so unfair of him to have let you know about the request, never mind make it clear that he would prefer that her wish was carried out.

If you were first now, if he was truly with you now and committed to a future with children with you, he would not have brought this up.

Only someone still in the middle of grieving, still unable to say goodbye, whose first loyalty and thought is for the dead person they miss, would ask that of someone.

I dont understand why some posters have problem with the gravestone wording. He was her fiance when she died. Whatever is changed in the mean time is irrelevant. gravestones dont get updated periodically. The information on the gravestone is the information that was fact at the time of her death.

@HooverTheHamaBeads: hang on! no Im not engaged. Im in no hurry either.
And when I said he is a good guy compared to others...I mean some of the really nasty bods my other single friends are seeing....also compared to my ex! That said; if Jose Mourinho/Rupert Penry-Jones/Bear Grylls knocked at my door tomorrow, I'd be off in a flash :) he's not THAT great :)

@SarahDoctorIndyHouse and @hellymelly
I do think you talk a lot of sense. I'd like to be generous and warm and welcoming. I dont want to be bitter twisted and nasty. It's just knowing where to draw the lines in the sand and say 'i'm ok with this, not happy with that' and for it to be fair, to myself and also to OH.
It's a crummy situation all round. I mean, I didnt expect to be this age and out of a really rubbish rel and having to scrabble around to rebuild a life...but hey ho, here we are. There's no rule book for this. Yes, I do think time heals but it's the HOW of learning to have confidence and be accepting that the situation necessarily has to be 'elastic' and encompassing of a lot of stuff that I certainly would never have expected to have to even think about....that's the really tricky part here.

I think its strange that you wete surprised and unhappy to find seven photos in his home only FOUR months after her death. really, what did you expect?

Sorry, I thought if you were talking about a wedding in real terms that you must be engaged.

Apologies