to feel really threatened by my OH's dead fiancee?

[badabing123]

Feel horrible writing this but it's beginning to eat me up inside.

Am a late 30something who is in a 1.5yr rel with a man whose late fiancee passed away with the Big C while she was in her mid 30s.
We actually met not long after she's passed away (4 months) - I'd come out of a 10yr rel which had been abusive and very sad-making six months earlier. But I pulled myself together and got out and since then have worked on getting my self esteem back and my life on track.
I'm happy, for the most part I am.

There may be some who think we got together too quickly; maybe we did who knows, but it felt right and we've largely kept under the radar and moved at our own pace. It is what it is.

We have a good relationship. In many ways, both our experiences of 'loss' have given us an understanding and greater compassion, I suppose. Or at least a determination to want to grasp happiness when it comes along. We both want to build a future together and one that involves kids which, as I am in my late 30s, is in some ways something of a relief.

But - and you knew there was a but coming! - however good our relationship is (and there are times I am so happy that I can almost touch the happiness it's so tangible) I am just eaten away by the thought, the fear that however good our relationship it will never bear the same significance as that with his dead fiancee.

1- I am happy for him to continue a relationship with her family, im supportive of this
2- I'm ok with photo of her out on show (i wouldnt think of objecting, though I'm relieved it's now only 2 photos instead of the 7 on the living room shelf when we met)
3 - Ive been supportive of the charitable fundraising he did in her memory.

I am saying the above to make clear that I dont think I am a 'bad person'. I am fair. But I just wonder where I fit in - sometimes there is just no space for me.

Things I object to (and yes, HATE)
1/Her facebook page still up and replete with photos of them together, beaches at sunset, Paris etc etc. Getting friend suggestions with her photo. (nb there's no way I can ask to take this down, it's not my place to do so, but its tremendously hurtful to see this and realise that the affectionate gestures I thought were for me are just replicas of those he gave her)

2/OH telling me that her final request had been that he call his first daughter after her. I replied 'No way'. Not doing that at all. His retort was that he wouldnt push it, was only repeating what she had said.

3/OH wanting her family to come to our wedding. I'm not happy with this; it's our day. I don't want to be there thinking that there are people there wishing I was someone else.

4/Gravestone wording: this was somewhat of an unexpected surprise before xmas as I had assumed this had all been done. Im absolutely sick at the prospect that the wording is going to include wording such as 'fiancee of'. I dont know, Im just dreading the worst what it could be.He doesnt know; its anyone's guess at this point, but it makes me feel sick even thnking about it. Even in death, it feels, she is still 'the one'.

I'm a good person: Someone dying of cancer at such a young age; it's deeply sad. I am sorry for her, Im sorry for her family and I am very touched by how my OH stood by her and supported her during such a difficult time.

But I'm not a stand-in; Im not a replacement.
I have talked these fears through calmly with my OH, he says I am absolutely not, that it's about us building a future. That our pasts are our past.

Yes, I totally get this. I mean, it's not like I had an easy time either (violent ex, mental cruelty) but I got up and moved on. It's not unreasonable to want to be 1st choice. Im not trying to vanquish his past, or remove her memory (not at all) but I feel there is no space for me.

He says he loves me and wants to have a future together - but you know, these things make me feel awful!!! I feel so awful.

What I am scared of most is how his past is not his past; it is always going to be part of the present and the future. We were getting on so well before xmas and then whoosh! news about the gravestone and all the fears (still unresolved) about that immediately surface. It feels like something to do with his past is always going to 'pop up' out of the blue and make me feel sh*t.

AIBU to want to be 1st choice? When I told him I wanted to feel this, for him to tell me that - he said I was being 'ridiculous', no one says stuff like that'. He says I am the one he wants to build a future with, but faced with a %$££%£% Facebook page filled with reams of endless romantic photos and other things besides - I am scared that eg even if we got married and had kids - I could never 'be enough'. I would always be thinking he was wishing I was her.

I am scared that because of my age I am settling for something that say 10 yrs ago I would have walked away from. I love him - but I hate his past.
I can accept that it's his past but I loathe the way it's coming into my present and my future.

Even worse, it is making me dislike HER (ashamed to admit this). As much as I objectively feel sorry for her I cant bear the hold she has now, even in death. And you can't compete with someone who is dead.

At least with an ex who is alive you can b*tch about them - but you can't do that when someone is dead. You just have to ...eat it?

AIBU? or how can I possibly deal with this better (without resorting to the vodka bottle :) )?

I dont think you are unreasonable at all. I get the feeling that he has not quite moved on. That he has not quite finished grieving. Of course, there should be some place for her in his life, or should there?

The relationship did not end, she died. But it seems to me that to him it actually continues.

If he had moved on, he would understand that pictures of her in your home, is not actually appropriate. Her family at your wedding, is not actually appropriate. Her deciding a name for your child, is not actually appropriate.

I would think he is not ready for a new relationship because he has not yet let go of the one he had. He is also expecting you to honour her, and give her a place in your life, which is unreasonable. Not only is he putting this woman on a pedestal, he expects you to join him in the adoration.

Would you not rather have a partner who loves you and wants nothing but you, rather than actually playing second fiddle to a dead woman and her family?

OP part of this could I suspect be him dealing with feeling guilty he's moved on.

Perhaps a bit quickly in the eyes of some of their family and friends?? Is there any question of this, that he's been the focus of some criticism from people who knew her?

WRT to your wedding...he can't ask for his former girlfriend's family's 'permission' to get married.

Expecting them to come along to the wedding, all smiles and happy for him, feels a bit like this somehow. "You need to tell me what I'm doing is okay." Sort of thing. They may wish him well but not be particularly in the mood to attend a very public event like that. But they may find it very hard to refuse.

I think if there is some way you or perhaps someone else close to him might gently suggest that it could be perceived like this could encourage him to change his mind.

I would let the tombstone thing go. Probably. You're not being unreasonable though...

Block the FB page.

Forget about any names thing, first or middle. Not happening. Not unreasonable.

I agree that he is still grieving and hasn't quite moved on yet.

I don't think this means that a relationship between the two of you can't work but I would be concerned that if she is such a prevalent feature of your relationship at the beginning, she might always be so.

I think perhaps he jumped in too fast , 4 months is no time really maybe you should have, 'dated' for longer.

this sounds like a very difficult situation, I totally understand your objection to the baby naming thing and her family coming to your wedding. YANBU.

Totally agree with FolkGirl. I am very sorry for your DP's loss but as harsh as it sounds, this is his life with you. Any children you have shouldn't be named in a tribute to someone who, lets face it, if she was still alive there's a very good chance that your child wouldn't ever have been born.

As for inviting the finacee's family to your wedding, you might find that how ever close they are to your DP they might not be able to face his wedding day. He was once meant to be marrying their daughter/sister, and instead is marrying you.

Unless your DP can learn to move on with his life with you it doesn't sound like you have much of a future together. Maybe he feels guilty about getting on with his life, which is why she is still so much a part of everything, including what you name your DC and your wedding day? Maybe it's just all too much, too soon for your DP?

Really feel for you OP.

If I were you, I would take a break from the relationship. Give him time to grieve and move on.

If the two of you are meant to be together you will find a way. But for now, I think any talk of weddings, and children together should be put on hold indefinitely.

It is interesting that you have come out of a destructive and abuse relationship, and moved onto one where there again is so little room for you and so little understanding for you. It seems again you have found a man that put himself (and his former fiance) before you.

A little bit like an emotional vampire. Suck the life force and joy out of you.

I think if you have this many issues about someone who is no longer around, then your priority should be to work on your own self esteem before you embark on a relationship with anyone, especially in the aftermath of an abusive relationship. Speaking a s a survivor of just such a relationship, it takes probably years to recover emationally from the trauma.
Howerver, the wording on her gravestone is 'nothing' to do with you, the number of photographs that he keeps on display (presumably in his OWN home) are NOTHING to do with you and I think it is very bizarre that your feeling is that his in laws will spend their time wishing you were someone else.
My dad was a young widow - he has a partner who would never dream of commenting on my mums grave stone OR suggest hiding pictures away. when they get married, my entire family circle will be there - including my mums siblings - wishing them a wonderful furure together.
He has to take some responsibilty for things as well and I do think that it is deeply unreasonable of him to even discuss the whole issue about baby naming with you.
I think there are just too many issues to overcome - if it was a simple as a few photos then it could be discussed but from your post, i think you have really deep seated issues about being 'second best' - and that will taint the rest of your life.

I should say that we are not actually living together. We each own our own homes where we both lived with our respective partners. I'm enjoying my space and have enjoyed making my place my own home, redecorating etc. I have purposely kept thngs slow because I'm happy at this pace. There's no rush to move in. His home is...his home. @sapphirefling I would never dream of telling him to put photos away, but really, it was somewhat disconcerting when we first met to have a snog under a bookshelf with about 7 photos of her on it. Didnt make me feel good -
There are two photos on display in his home, I am ok with that. It doesnt bother me.
In time - no time soon - I would like us to have our own home. I wouldnt expect him to live here, and I wouldnt feel comfortable living there. And I dont mind him having the same photos on display there. That really isnt an issue for me. A gallery of them would be!

@QuintessentialyHollow : yes, I wondered too whether I gravitated towards this man because it was a rerun of the 'emotional unavailability' that I had with my ex who frankly wasn't interested in me, full stop. It was like like at the start, I think, I wasnt looking to emotionally commit but as time has gone on, I want more because Ive invested more.
I want an OH who loves me and sees and appreciates all my strengths. And I do have quite a few! (*and is kind enough to lie about all my flaws :) )
I am scared that having been hurt so much before, now that I have actually let my guard down again and trusted someone after having to build myself up, that it is all in vain - Ive put my eggs in the wrong basket, in a man whose thoughts will forever be with another woman who won't age, who will be timeless and forever preserved in aspic.

OP: I mean this gently. She hasn't even been dead for 2 years yet. She died not so very long ago. I also agree that your OH got into a new relationship way too quickly. For the majority of people who get left behind, at 16 weeks you're still trying to come to terms with the whole damn thing and are shell shocked.... (and I speak from personal experience).

I think you need space to give yourself head and heart space and gather your thoughts. There are 3 in your relationship and it's a bit crowded.

He does sound as if he is trying hard, and coping quite well. He cannot disrespect her by acting as if she never existed.

I DO understand how you feel, however. Nobody wants to feel second best. I know you've already pointed it out, but I think it was too soon to get together. Now that you have, try to make little fuss about the things such as FB, that's no-one's fault. It sounds like your partner is aware his ex was never a part of YOUR life and he was just being honest about what his wife said re: baby name. He didn't say he wanted it too, he was just testing the water. Now that he knows it's a no no (and I'd be the same) he'll forget it. But he won't forget her, and he shouldn't have to. It's going to be difficult, but you can get through it, if you let it happen.

Most people feel worried that they don't measure up to someone's ex. I know I do. I know it's crass but I was quite happy to find out my bf's ex was crap at a certain sexual act and that I was fantastic.

Your partner now knows what it feels like to lose someone he loves and so he's likely to be much more attentive towards you and cherish your existence in his life. It's how I feel about my bf after losing my fiance in 2007.

@boomerwang thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I would never, ever ask him to forget her, not at all. That's crass. I am many things (jealous, schizo maybe!) but not so insensitive.

I'm interested that you actually had the conv about comparing sexual performance tho. Thats a pretty bi conv to have!
Im afraid I also went down that road and questioned this (admittedly, when in a somewhat intoxicated state, so ...) and he flew off the handle and was very, very protective of her and their sexlife. Which made me feel cr*p on several levels. It made me feel like my past is open to criticism - and of course its easy to criticise someone who was violent etc etc - but that their life together was sacred.

I shouldnt have asked the question because I got more back than I bargained for.

big conversation i mean

1. Her facebook face is probably helpful to her friends and family, and probably your partner too. I had a close friend die a few years ago, her facebook is still there, complete with pictures of her with her partner. I'd be very sad if it vanished. So as much as it hurts YOU to see it, try to remember that it probably does a lot of people some good.

2. It is unreasonable of him to expect you to respect her final wish. To be honest, and I'm not speaking ill of the dead here... that was a really selfish thing for her to put on him.

3. I suppose if they are important to him and a part of his life, you may need to compromise on having them there. Of course, it is your big day, but its also his. That is a tricky one though.

4. Whether you like it or not, she was his fiancee, and her relationship with him was significant. Its her gravestone, she and her family shouldn't have to censor part of her life to fit in with yours now.

I understand you feelings but you need to understand you OH is only recently bereaved.

Its been less than two years.

Its going to take time. Its a very hard situation.

I dont think you are being unreasonable as things stand. Certainly about the first baby name thing.

I dont know how this is going to work whilst he is still so hung up on his previous partner. Its very hard to 'compete' with someone who has died so young and tragically.

I wouldnt be thinking about marriage or children for a while yet. He needs to have got to a different place with the loss of his finacee.

YANBU

at all

no advice, but so not BU

he needs to move on. really, its not fair on you and you desreve more.

For her parents, well they will never move on and they have lost their baby

But if he wants you, he needs to make some compromises here.

and as for the first bornh child name, well the poor woman was dying bless her but its a fucked up idea

I also agree that you may need to be really strong and take a step back, and dont be scared of losing him.

I don't have experience of this, but there is a lovely piece by a writer called Emily Yoffe who found herself in exactly the same situation, which you might find helpful.

www.doublex.com/section/life/my-husbands-other-wife

Reading your OP again. The situation with the naming of the child (which yes, is utterly inappropriate) - I lose a bit of sympathy here for your OH (in the nicest possible way if that makes sense) and I can begin to see why you feel not only bothered by it all but undermined.

Why did he say this? It's so totally inappropriate that it should never have been raised - you should never have been even made aware of this 'final request'. He could not have seriously thought, in a sane way, that it could be a good idea or one you would be happy with. So unsurprisingly you refuse point blank. His response then, I think, is also inappropriate. 'I was just saying what she said' (Why?!) and 'I won't push it' - this last, especially, is totally undermining. The subtext is, 'Well I'd like it if you agreed, I'd like my daughter to have her name.'

What is that going to achieve but make you feel awful about his level of commitment and how he might feel 'underneath'?

The conclusion I draw from that exchange isn't that your OH is bad or pushy or manipulative so much as, as others have said, that he is still grieving. To actually come forward with that suggestion - it's mad and it's grief talking.

He's not through it yet OP, and that's why you feel the way you do. Subconsciously, you know that in a sense she still is in the way of your relationship.

I would back off from this for a while. I really feel for you.

Mooncup, that is a lovely article you posted above. Inspirational.

You can't change his past, you can't change that you guys met a short while after his Fiance passed. The grief was raw, the mourning for the loss was at an early stage (for both of you really considering you left a relationship). If you love him, you have to accept him for who he is, you have to accept his grief and his loyalty to her and to her family. It's one big package that you don't have control over. You need to work on all this yourself, you need to make yourself stronger to accept him and his past for who/what it is.

I also think your feelings are natural and may subside over time. Possibly if you guys had a child you would be so busy with your lives that her memory would have to fade and be less influential.

I don't think your fiance has done anything wrong at all. It's just a slightly awkward situation. You need to grow your confidence to be able to overcome this obstacle. No easy feat, confidence is the most valuable thing in the world. Good luck and enjoy him and your life together.

I really feel for you, OP, it's very difficult.

If this woman had lived longer there is every chance that either she would have wanted to move on at some point - or he would have - or the relationship would have grown perhaps a bit stale as many long term ones do. Death has 'cannonised' her to a point as there's no way that you can compete with somebody's memory.

There's been lots of very good and supportive advice here and I hope it's been some comfort to you. Just as you cannot compete with this woman - she cannot compete with you, you're here now and you and your fiance have a relationship that she didn't have. All the nuances that you detect may not be what they seem and if you weren't feeling sensitive and fragile about it, you wouldn't be affected in the same way. If your partner really hadn't moved on, he wouldn't be willing to discuss marriage and children with you. Perhaps he feels a little personal guilt at that? That he shouldn't have been able to move on yet?

Blocking the FB page is a very good idea. As far as naming a daughter after this woman, just say gently that it isn't a name that you particularly like and you would like to choose a name with your fiance that has no past affiliation. As far as coming to the wedding goes, I wouldn't like it either. Suggest to him that he (and maybe you if you feel up to it) visits the parents before or after and that whilst you accept he will always feel connected to them, they will obviously not begrudge him happiness in his new life.

I'm glad you posted here, OP, it's not really any more bun-fighty than anywhere else so ignore the 'post elsewhere' posters and post where you want.

Good luck and best wishes. :)

I do think he is still grieving or, rather he's just of the opinion that life goes on. I too have wondered myself that this has all been too soon for him and I have been super-careful not to do anything that could possibly rile the feelings of others. ie, he only very recently (last nov) told her parents that he was seeing me, prior to that only his family knew.

Partly that was my decision - I know from personal, family experience how sensitive feelings can be about the perceived 'appropriate' length of time before a new partner makes an appearance, but also because I wanted to be sure if this was something I could actually live with. For the most part it is, but, but,but. It is hard.

I do feel there are 3 of us in this relationship. I think (?) in time this could lessen as we build up our own shared experiences, but Im absolutely no way (in hell) going to accept situations I feel uncomfortable with. The difficult yis knowing what stuff is me being unreasonable or me being a crazy, jealous B!

Stuff like FB I can block/ignore/pretend it's not there (throuh gritterd teeth)...gravestone I can rationalise by saying ok, that is more about her family's wishes and her life (nothing to do with me and I dont have to be part of it). But there's absolutely no way I would ever do the baby name thing (?!!!) and I really wouldn't be keen on them at a wedding. So yeah, compromises.

I think what my OH envisages ideally is that somehow we become a 'blended family' of sorts. Because he is friends with them - and I see why, they are good, decent people - but I have a funny feeling he envisages extended family gatherings with them included (I'm not ready for that) or eventually as proxy other grandparents for any kids we have (cant see my own parents being too pleased at that). It is unfortunate too that they don't have any other grandchildren - it's really sad, they have nothing. I am not without feeling; that's awful, but I dont want to live my life as a form of proxy. No, no, no.

The most bizarre suggestion OH made was to visit her grave together or to meet her parents. I think I can see what he is trying to do, to make me feel 'welcomed' and that I have nothing to fear - but actually the bolshy part of me says sod that! I'm not here to be judged by anyone! I am what I am, I'm not here to be ratified or not! I dont really want to go (overseas) to visit them or make a pilgrmage to her grave. That's not for me.

So - on balance, though, a lot of the comments here have been hugely, hugely helpful - thank you. I appreciate this more than you know.

My OH is a good guy, I do know this, I am just not just that he has let go. He is trying to please everyone, also respect her memory. That is laudable.

I am just not sure really where I fit, there's just no space.

That is a beautiful article mooncup.

Op - I think there hasto be a lot of elasticity in your relationship tbh. Your dp is still actively grieving for the woman he's lost - and for their life together. Your life with him must surely be so entwined with that , that it's hard to make out where something starts and ends.

If your dp is going to stay as part of his in laws life then he should invite them to his wedding. They may very well not come but if they do it will be as a gesture of support for your marriage. If they wished you were her they wouldn't come would they? More than anybody there they know she's gone. I don't believe they would watch

The gravestone - words on a stone. Is that going to be worth more than your marriage? Than your children? He was her fiance. If her parents want that on the stone as a memorial to how loved she was then how can it possiby hurt you?

There are things in your dp's past that will always be special and beautiful to him. There are also a lot of cards in your hand to play for the future. You have the future this woman lost. A photo on a shelf, a name on a tomb - you have far, far more going for you than she ever can now.

with regards to your wedding, perhaps this is not the right time to be planning a permanent commitment? but if you are getting married please take a moment to think about the deceased ladies family even though it is 'your' day..

are they close to your dp? they have lost their daughter/sister/etc. so tragically and then to be excluded from the wedding of someone they care about because of his new partners insecurities could be very hurtful. i hope that doesn't sound harsh. if they care about your dp surely they will be pleased that he has found happiness not 'wishing you were someone else'.

fwiw, i dont think you are being unreasonable, but you are in such a complex situation with so many conflicting emotions for you and your dp that it is very hard to define 'reasonable'