to feel really threatened by my OH's dead fiancee?

[badabing123]

Feel horrible writing this but it's beginning to eat me up inside.

Am a late 30something who is in a 1.5yr rel with a man whose late fiancee passed away with the Big C while she was in her mid 30s.
We actually met not long after she's passed away (4 months) - I'd come out of a 10yr rel which had been abusive and very sad-making six months earlier. But I pulled myself together and got out and since then have worked on getting my self esteem back and my life on track.
I'm happy, for the most part I am.

There may be some who think we got together too quickly; maybe we did who knows, but it felt right and we've largely kept under the radar and moved at our own pace. It is what it is.

We have a good relationship. In many ways, both our experiences of 'loss' have given us an understanding and greater compassion, I suppose. Or at least a determination to want to grasp happiness when it comes along. We both want to build a future together and one that involves kids which, as I am in my late 30s, is in some ways something of a relief.

But - and you knew there was a but coming! - however good our relationship is (and there are times I am so happy that I can almost touch the happiness it's so tangible) I am just eaten away by the thought, the fear that however good our relationship it will never bear the same significance as that with his dead fiancee.

1- I am happy for him to continue a relationship with her family, im supportive of this
2- I'm ok with photo of her out on show (i wouldnt think of objecting, though I'm relieved it's now only 2 photos instead of the 7 on the living room shelf when we met)
3 - Ive been supportive of the charitable fundraising he did in her memory.

I am saying the above to make clear that I dont think I am a 'bad person'. I am fair. But I just wonder where I fit in - sometimes there is just no space for me.

Things I object to (and yes, HATE)
1/Her facebook page still up and replete with photos of them together, beaches at sunset, Paris etc etc. Getting friend suggestions with her photo. (nb there's no way I can ask to take this down, it's not my place to do so, but its tremendously hurtful to see this and realise that the affectionate gestures I thought were for me are just replicas of those he gave her)

2/OH telling me that her final request had been that he call his first daughter after her. I replied 'No way'. Not doing that at all. His retort was that he wouldnt push it, was only repeating what she had said.

3/OH wanting her family to come to our wedding. I'm not happy with this; it's our day. I don't want to be there thinking that there are people there wishing I was someone else.

4/Gravestone wording: this was somewhat of an unexpected surprise before xmas as I had assumed this had all been done. Im absolutely sick at the prospect that the wording is going to include wording such as 'fiancee of'. I dont know, Im just dreading the worst what it could be.He doesnt know; its anyone's guess at this point, but it makes me feel sick even thnking about it. Even in death, it feels, she is still 'the one'.

I'm a good person: Someone dying of cancer at such a young age; it's deeply sad. I am sorry for her, Im sorry for her family and I am very touched by how my OH stood by her and supported her during such a difficult time.

But I'm not a stand-in; Im not a replacement.
I have talked these fears through calmly with my OH, he says I am absolutely not, that it's about us building a future. That our pasts are our past.

Yes, I totally get this. I mean, it's not like I had an easy time either (violent ex, mental cruelty) but I got up and moved on. It's not unreasonable to want to be 1st choice. Im not trying to vanquish his past, or remove her memory (not at all) but I feel there is no space for me.

He says he loves me and wants to have a future together - but you know, these things make me feel awful!!! I feel so awful.

What I am scared of most is how his past is not his past; it is always going to be part of the present and the future. We were getting on so well before xmas and then whoosh! news about the gravestone and all the fears (still unresolved) about that immediately surface. It feels like something to do with his past is always going to 'pop up' out of the blue and make me feel sh*t.

AIBU to want to be 1st choice? When I told him I wanted to feel this, for him to tell me that - he said I was being 'ridiculous', no one says stuff like that'. He says I am the one he wants to build a future with, but faced with a %$££%£% Facebook page filled with reams of endless romantic photos and other things besides - I am scared that eg even if we got married and had kids - I could never 'be enough'. I would always be thinking he was wishing I was her.

I am scared that because of my age I am settling for something that say 10 yrs ago I would have walked away from. I love him - but I hate his past.
I can accept that it's his past but I loathe the way it's coming into my present and my future.

Even worse, it is making me dislike HER (ashamed to admit this). As much as I objectively feel sorry for her I cant bear the hold she has now, even in death. And you can't compete with someone who is dead.

At least with an ex who is alive you can b*tch about them - but you can't do that when someone is dead. You just have to ...eat it?

AIBU? or how can I possibly deal with this better (without resorting to the vodka bottle :) )?

It's been no time and he will still be grieving. I think you have too many issues to be with someone whose heart is, for now, clearly divided. He is still in the early stages of grief. Add to that that she will have become a saint in memory, as most people do who have died. It's a bit impossible really.

re the issues: I have similar issues (also as a result of domestic abuse) so I'm not pointing the finger! You/I would need to be firmly rooted and established in ourselves to be able to do all this with aplomb - and you clearly can't (as I doubt I would). Your last relationship lacerated your heart and probably destroyed your self-confidence - you probably want to be very special to someone to soothe that. Along comes mr very recently bereaved.. that is not an ideal scenario for you, is it? It's pants. You probably don't hate her but what she represents - your cherished one still half-cherishing someone else, when you need his full, unadulterated cherishing. You need to be kind of soaked in cherishing and he's got half his heart somewhere else. He won't have the space to support you OP with the 'hole in your soul' because his is too gaping. That's not your fault, or his (or hers): it's just the way it is.

imo it is perfectly reasonable to eg visit her grave with him/meet her parents/her parents come to your wedding etc - they love him and want him to be happy, even if the wedding will probably and understandably be bitter-sweet for them. The first child's name is a bit ho-hum but that's grief and sorrow talking (on his and her part). I suggest you take a break. I'm sure that will be hard but imo you both have stuff to sort out in yourselves . You are unintentionally hurting each other eg your comments about sex probably really hurt him, he is not ready for anything like that and probably never will be; his eye being slightly off the ball and on the woman on the mantlepiece will be hurting you. a lot!

oops sorry, that was long.

I am not sure just how he can talk about marriage and children with you, when she still has such a large part in his life. I also dont quite understand how he has space in his heart for her, his grief, and romantic love for you. I understand why you are torn, and why you feel there is no space for you.

I think, if I were you, I would really take a step back and stop all talk of marriage and children. It is maybe too soon.

I think that as time passes his late fiancee's parents may back off a little.

He is their connection to their girl, both her past and her future.

We cling to the people who knew our children and those who will talk about them, say their names. It is likely that they are so wrapped in their grief at this stage that it is impossible for them to think about the impact on others.

TBH I think it will be very, very difficult for them to come to your wedding. An invitation would be a wonderful gesture. Because the wedding is a signal that their daughter's husband to be is moving on, it makes her death real.

This grief business is a very complicated thing. You are caught in the middle of a maelstrom and it must be very hard for you.

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that your OH may well always be part of the parents's lives. He is their link and to lose him would be devastating.

But grief evolves over time and I really think that they will be able to let go of him without fearing they are letting go of her.

BUT it will take time and 2 years is NOTHING when you lose a child.

I dont have experience of losing a partner so I really cannot advise on that part of this story.

Give it time.

I think Quint and Daffs are talking an awful lot of sense, but I still want to come back to the point that the fact that he still loves his late partner is a point in his favour (imho) and can be seen as boding well for the future rather than the opposite.

Obviously he may still be hurting and in that case taking things slowly, maintaining separate homes for the time being etc is probably sensible for both of you.

But please remember, love is not finite. How many times have we read on these very boards that we should beware of guys who cut off ties with children from an earlier relationship. I know a child is not a partner (obviously!!) but I still think that in the same way, if he had seemingly forgotten about her you would have far more to worry about.

Yes there are issues to be resolved but there is no reason to think that they can't be; and yes maybe the circumstances are not ideal but (inn the light of my very happy similar experience) I am begging you not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Sorry, the last sentence sounds like I am putting you under a LOT of emotional pressure. Really not meaning to: just offering encouragement!

"You have the future this woman lost."

But that's the problem, isn't it?

Who wants a dead woman's future?

To marry a man who wishes he was marrying someone else, with all her family there...

To have a child and call her after a dead woman as though she was a kind of mother...

To have the dead woman's parents acting as a third set if grandparents to a child that is the daughter/son she never had...

How could anyone not feel like a stand-in under those conditions?

That appears to be what's on offer.

And that's not enough.

Oh no no no no no A thing !!!

You have just described a glass half empty!

There may be some truth in what you say ( some ) but you are looking at it in the darkest possible way!

Surely to take your argument to its logical conclusion would be to say that the bereaved could never remarry/have new relationships.

I have related the OP's circumstances to my own already, but from another angle, if I were to die before my DDDDDH, I would want to think that he would find happiness again, either with or without a new partner. And recently bereaved mena re not all twits like Macca you know (oops, did I say that???)

Is it really innappropriate to ask if you've read Rebecca? Probably.

OP, he obviously loves you now. I would also be consumed with jealousy, but you could have a great life with this man.......and who knows, any child might be a boy.

@SarahDoctorIndyHouse I agree; I do not thing that love is finite and yes, I really respect and see how he treated her and looked after her as a huge stamp of character.

But I do think @springydaffs says everything - and yes, it is pants (!) I am not going to get that from this situation, I kinda know that already.

Your last relationship lacerated your heart and probably destroyed your self-confidence - you probably want to be very special to someone to soothe that. Along comes mr very recently bereaved.. that is not an ideal scenario for you, is it? It's pants. You probably don't hate her but what she represents - your cherished one still half-cherishing someone else, when you need his full, unadulterated cherishing. You need to be kind of soaked in cherishing and he's got half his heart somewhere else. He won't have the space to support you OP with the 'hole in your soul' because his is too gaping. That's not your fault, or his (or hers): it's just the way it is.

I really don't feel you can, or should, compare the two. He lost someone he loved, you left someone who hurt you. Her family want to stay in touch, and he them, as he was going to be their family and they are friends now.

He isn't recycling words of love, there are only so many words in the world and I love you isn't trademarked to you telling one person in your life.

Be careful as you might lose someone very special with your insecurities.

Is HE making you feel second best?

I think AThing just nailed it there.... The op feels like a stand in because to some extent she is treated like one, based on the expectation her dp has in terms of her contact with the dead womans parents. Is that right?

@Tortu I love Joan Fontaine :) Don't think I'd look good in a Little Bo Peep outfit tho ......

Sorry but I think YABU about the FB page. It might be very hurtful to her family to delete it - I can see why he could not suggest that.

I think YANBU about your DD's name or the gravestone.

give it time - but if you want a family this is the one thing you DON'T have.

you could hang around waiting for this guy to heal, and maybe he will, maybe he won't.

i don't believe any of your questions are easy to answer, you might never get an answer.

i think you have to act on how your relationship is now because the future you envisage might never happen.

Well that's kind of what I meant by the glass half empty syndrome Quint

You could not unreasonably see it that way, or you could see it that here is a man (and extended 'family') who treasure relationships and love and want to honour their memory.

Neither way is right or wrong and I guess what the OP has to decide is whether she can comfortably get alongside 'his' way or whether she really needs to step back, either permanently or until time lends a different perspective

He has a lot more time when it comes to parenthood than you have.

Sounds like the OP needs to change her attitude. He will always wonder what could have been with his lost fiancee. He won't change, if you can't live with that then find someone else.

@fabwoman On a day to day basis, he treats me very well.
I dont want to feel pushed here into saying "oh, ok, because he treats me nicely, this must mean it's all in my head.". It's not.

For most of the time it is good, but then whooooa - something totally tummy wrenching pops up out of the blue and drags the situation back (eg the gravestone issue). I feel like I am walking on eggshells thinkng...what next.

I am ok with him having a continued relationship with the family, I really do understand that. But what I dont want is to feel that I am second best because of the assumptions that are being made of me.

I really like this person, he has a lot of strengths and really, compared to a lot of men Ive met, there's a lot there.
I would really like a 'clear run' at having a 'normal' relationship, not one where my heart is sinking and thinking ooooh noooo what's coming up now.

And Sarah, that would just be weird if the woman was still alive and the relationship had ended. Or, even if the woman was dead and the relationship had ended before her passing. It is purely because the woman died that the op now will have her parents in her life for the foreseeable future, reminding her that her partner should really have been with somebody else, and fathered somebody elses children. Personally, I could not live with that. But op may be (probably IS) a better woman than me.

I think he rushed into the relationship with you in an attempt to replicate his past relationship. I'm sure he does love you, but it seems clear he hasn't got over this fiancee's death.

I would stop all talk about weddings and children with him, to be honest. He's trying to continue a relationship with her even though she's dead - that's very understandable, but for you, in a romantic relationship with him, it's a nightmare.

I know what jealousy feels like and I'm so sorry you are feeling this.

"Surely to take your argument to its logical conclusion would be to say that the bereaved could never remarry/have new relationships."

Not at all.

But they shouldn't have new relationship until they're ready to build a new future with a new partner.

And all that's on offer here is being a stand-in for a dead woman.

@ripeberry yeah; that's the biggie. I mean, even when we are intimate, it's in my head thinking...he wishes I was her. I do feel this. I dont know if that's just me being insecure or whether it is what he is thinking (but wont admit) but yes -

No, my point was if he doesn't make you feel second best then why do you feel it?