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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice please if anyone's up

705 replies

losttheflickumdickumagain · 26/02/2012 05:31

Cant believe I'm asking this, I think I know I'm clutching at straws.

Yesterday I found an old mobile in my husbands van (I never usually go I there). There were literally loads of calls made, as many as 10 a day up until 5:20 (he gets home around 5:45) I rang the number and a woman answered.

We have 3 dc's aged 5 and under. My world has just dropped from under my feet.

He's smashed the phone in temper, and he's saying someone at works been using it for the last couple if weeks. He swears he's not been having an affair.

I am clutching at straws aren't I?

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izzyizin · 01/04/2012 19:32

IF there's any truth in that story, why wouldn't he have told you that an ex-colleague had been in touch to say hello after seeing his name on his van? Surely that has a certain novelty value worthy of relating to one's nearest and dearest?

Despite him having been driving around her locality, he claims they haven't met up and, the way he tells it, he's been little more than a friend in need to a 50 yr old married woman who's got dh & money troubles.

And this innocent 18mth-2yr long friendship was worth smashing the separate mobile phone he used to provide her with a listening ear.

He's not even begun to be honest with you, has he?

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 19:38

Sad no, I don't think he has.

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Lueji · 01/04/2012 19:40

keeps saying he's fighting me and 100's of other women

I bloody hope so. You are not alone. :)

izzyizin · 01/04/2012 20:51

How's he feel about having at least a couple of dozen of bullshit detectors scrutinising every word he says about his non-physical affair?

I suspect he got his leg over with Mrs Allegedly Mature Ex-Colleague in the privacy of her home while her h was at work and her dc were at school; and/or they were having it off in the back of his van as and when opportunity occurred - and they could still be at it.

If his van is distinctive you can bet Mrs AMEC's neighbours will have noticed it parked up near her home, or her getting in it and being driven off by him to a quiet spot.

What a lying twunt he is. It's a wonder his nose isn't 2' long.

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 20:54

Okay, wine now I think Sad

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izzyizin · 01/04/2012 21:10

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he begun his secret smoking at the time, or shortly after, it got physical with Mrs AMEC.

ParanoidPrue · 01/04/2012 22:35

Hi Lost - I'm a bit behind on your thread and trying to catch up on your most recent posts. I must admit that I was a bit concerned to read that you've come away from Relate feeling as thought you felt your marriage needed a big kick up the bum. You said "For the last couple of years we've grown apart a bit, but I admit I have been colder with him since I saw that photograph in his phone." I kind of get the feeling that you're trying to find a reason somewhere as to why he might behave this way - I totally agree with the other posters, particularly Mad and Five, who say that he didn't need a reason to do this.

You might have been colder towards him because you felt that he breached your trust and lied about that photo - that's not your fault. That's a natural reaction to that type of situation. If he was concerned about your reaction, he should have talked to you and come clean about the photo and its origins. If he feels that instead of talking to you, it was normal for him to pull away, buy a secret phone and start chatting to some ex-colleague on the sly then he's the one with the problem, not you. You've not contributed to this in any way - do you hear me? Not in the slightest. You must quash those feelings of guilt at your coldness as soon as they arise.

If it makes you feel any better - I did exactly the same Grin For a good couple of years, I convinced myself that H turned to another woman for attention whilst I was pregnant because I became "obsessed" with being pregnant and then with my DC1. Guess who put that thought in my head? and he said exactly the same thing - that it wasn't my fault but it was just how he was feeling at the time. Except now, I can see that it's total and utter bollocks. I remember that time clearly - I was totally in love with DC1 from conception and yes, I did "neglect" him but he showed absolutely zero interest in me, the pregnancy or the baby. He never tried to get involved, he never spoke to me about it. Instead he absented himself by disappearing to his study every evening to send dirty texts to another woman and ring her the minute he left me to go to work. Did I reject him? Did I bollocks - I still cooked his dinner, looked after him and dealt with all his shit.

I'm betting that for the last 18 months, even if feel you've been "cold" towards him, matters have pretty continued as normal for him. I doubt he even noticed, except when he's looking for an excuse for being a total knobhead! I did have to LOL at the MN comment as well. I did exactly the same with H. I even left my thread open for him to look at - his reaction? Not what I was hoping for. Apparently Mumsnet has ruined his marriage. Um, no - that'll be you when you told another woman you loved them....

I'm very aware that I'm ranting but whilst I'm on a roll, what a line of bollocks he's spun re the phone and his conversations. No wonder you're beside yourself if that's the story he expects you to swallow. He does realise that he married a very intelligent, extremely savvy woman who's not about to believe that crock of shit, doesn't he? I mean - who the hell would go the trouble of setting up an entirely secret phone just to have totally innocuous conversations with an ex-work colleague several times a day? He doesn't have any bloody idea what he's doing to you when he's trying to convince you to buy that. I know that you want to believe it - you don't want your life turned upside down and if there's even a slim chance that you could be wrong, you're going to grab that straw with both hands and clutch onto it as if your life depended on it. You must be in turmoil emotionally. I don't know what to say Sad I know it's so very hard but you must try to hold onto the truth as you know it - he lied and it's the lies that are fucking the relationship up, not the truth behind what happened. His explanation is very unlikely but it could be that the truth is not far behind. Unfortuantely, whilst he continues to lie, he's playing with your emotional state of mind in order to just brush this under the carpet and protect his own skin.

If it helps, I'm like a dog with the proverbial bone at the moment with my H - I won't let go of the fact that he lied for 6 months and tackle it every single time we talk. I just keep getting the same response "I didn't want to upset you". It's driving me crackers! Something I read on another MN thread really hit home today. It was on cwtchy's thread (although I realise the situation is very different from yours). It was posted by an MNer called Midwife99 I think. I'll try to find the quote and post it - basically she said that whilst our motivation to seek the truth may be borne out of frustration and a need to clear the air, the cheating party's perception is that we're clingy and we need them. It really struck me that my H's perception of me is as a paranoid wreck trying to cling onto him desperately. I mean, that couldn't be more wrong but really that is how he perceives me when I bang on and on about the same old crap every day because I want an answer that makes sense.

I'm going to stop wittering now because Christ Almighty I've gone on a bit! I'll see if I can search out that post and post it here for you - it might help you have a lightbulb moment like I did today! Hope you're having a nice Wine - after this mammoth post, I think I'll join you....

ParanoidPrue · 01/04/2012 22:46

Me again - will be quick I promise! It wasn't Midwife99, it was a poster called Before and After, and in amongst some absolutely brillant advice she posted this

"I recall a point around about this time last year with H when I was, invariably, emotional and I think it?s fair to say I was pleading with him to tell me the truth. I probably seemed unhinged and I was definitely desperate but not for him to stay with me but for him to tell me the truth but do you know what he said? He told me that the more desperate I was the more pathetic I seemed and the less he wanted me. I think a lot of men interpret our desire for information, truth and facts as a desire for them, ?clinginess? I believe they call it, when it?s so often not the case."

It was the last sentence that really resonated with me. Certainly my experience on MN has shown me that I'm not alone in being desperate for the truth. But MN has also shown me that even after lots of "hearts to hearts" and the like, these partners very rarely are forthcoming with Mr Sorry being a rather notable exception. I guess it's made me realise that all the heart to hearts in the world won't help me and H if he continues to lie....

izzyizin · 01/04/2012 23:06

For the last couple of years we've grown apart a bit Erm... given that you had another dc a year or so ago, it seems you didn't grow that much apart.

I admit I have been colder with him since I saw that photograph in his phone By my calculations, you saw the photo when you were c3 months pg with your now 1yr old dd.

He was obviously in contact with Mrs AMEC before he received that particular photo, which was no doubt one of many, but you can use that date as the point where their affair became physical and he started his secret smoking. Seems he needed something to steady his nerves - could he have had a guilty conscience or was he shit scared her dh would find out?

Of course if it's all as entirely innocent as he claims, he'll have no objection to you meeting Mrs AMEC and she'll have no objection to you meeting Mr A - perhaps you could go out as a foursome sometime?

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 23:37

Oh prue everything's gone completely tits up tonight. Someone on here asked if anyone had an iPhone, and could they check the safari advanced history. I had a look at mine to see if I could help (bearing in mind I'm a complete technophobe, never knew how to do it before), looked at idiots while he took the hounds out, just out of curiosity, never expected to find anything. And it was all porn!!! All day It's been awful here, he's been busy sorting the garden out so dd has a safe area to play, and I've been having about 30 conversations with him in my head, all about how I can't be with him anymore, then this! It goes from bad to worse. He's gone absolutely ballistic, saying he was googling celebrity porn at work with his mates, some tulisa thing. I packed him a bag, but I don't think he's shifting.

I feel I'm in some sort of carry on film now.

Plus side, I've lost 1.5 stone, and yesterday I had a manicure and my feet look pretty Grin hope it doesn't snow now Grin.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 23:41

Sorry izzy, I wrote half of that before, and just finished it now, before I saw your post.

I've asked why she won't confirm they were just friends, he said he doesn't know, and unfortunately the relate lady has sort of (unknowingly I think), backed him up. Saying we don't know her personality, so we can't speak for her,

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 23:43

Prue, your h definately does not deserve you.

I wish I'd married mrsorry.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 23:47

See, just had to apologise on that phone thread, I swore a bit Blush. Who suggested wine? Tea?! Grin

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Nyac · 02/04/2012 00:13

Do any of your friends or family know what's going on lost?

He's not shifting because he's a great big bully who enjoys pushing you around. He's been doing it for ages, even when you weren't aware of it.

izzyizin · 02/04/2012 00:30

He's gone ballistic? WTF? If anyone's got the right to go nuclear, it sure ain't him.

Save your money, honey. Now is not the time for Relate and it's never going to be the time for some 'the computer says let's move forward'-type marriage guidance counsellor.

What you've got on your hands is the triple whammy of a:

  1. A liar who blames anyone/everyone else when he gets caught bang to rights
  1. An adulterer who believes that if he keeps denying the truth long enough, he'll turn black to white.
  1. A pathetic piece of gobshite who has a, no doubt longstanding, porn habit.

What was that you were saying about his ex-wife?

Charbon · 02/04/2012 01:30

Just caught up with your updates OP and am sorry to see you're no further forward.

I mentioned upthread that your husband always seems to behave in exactly the same way when he's found out doing something wrong - he goes ballistic and tells lies. So the way he behaved when you found the porn sites is true to form isn't it? I expect a lot of us on here could have guessed he was a porn user, but the stuff about this being a workmate-inspired activity is absolute bollocks, unless there's a culture of communal wanking sessions in his workplace Hmm

In any case, was this lie designed to make you feel any better about him as a person? That he's one of a braying mob of men that feels entitled to look at celebrities whose images have been stolen, for men to comment and wank over? Were you meant to say 'oh that's alright then...'?

I'm sorry to be a bit tough with you, but you are too nice and he's manipulating you to high heaven. The counsellor sounds an absolute drip too and it's pointless going to Relate (who aren't the best at this) with someone who is still lying through his teeth. It sounds like the counsellor has colluded with him in casting doubt on your perfectly sound instincts that you are being lied to.

He has been having an affair and it's as simple as that. Nothing he's said or done suggests otherwise. He also lies to you, uses porn, manipulates you and gets angry. There's no point continually asking him to leave, packing bags for him and then sticking around for even more lies. You've got to follow through, or he'll have even less respect for you and will treat you even worse. You've made too many empty threats and then backed down. You don't need his permission to end this relationship and mean it. Save your money on this pointless counselling and put it to better use.

shewolf · 02/04/2012 07:35

Hiya,my daughter of 11 has decided too live with her dad,can she do this without my permission..

losttheflickumdickumagain · 02/04/2012 11:08

Sorry shewolf, I've no idea. I'm sure someone will be along that knows better than me. Have you started a thread asking?

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Teaandcakeplease · 02/04/2012 11:36

shewolf I suggest you create a thread in lone parents or legal matters, however this thread had some good advice on it: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lone_parents/1199724-DS-wants-to-live-with-dad

fiventhree · 03/04/2012 12:29

Lost, it sounds awful.

I am another one whose h made some pretty derogatory comments about MN, particularly the first time when people on my thread were proven absolutely right. He is quite red faced about that now.

I agree that your h is still lying.

My own relate counsellor was very good, but I know others have a different experience. If you do decide to continue, I think you should state clearly that you dont believe him, and that a credible story which you feel to be true is the only way forward. That you are willing (if it is true) to work on your marriage, but not without a basis on honesty first, as you will not open yourself up in this process to someone who believes it is OK to lie to you in return.

I remember that lightbulb moment- isnt it interesting how the situation changes, and their reaction, when you realise you really will leave i you have to, and mean it? I think it relates to the beforeand after post which PP refers to. They sense the change and it changes the dymanic somewhat, as they have lost power.

The only other thing I did notice was the porn. One comment I would make about that, and it was true for my h too, is that some men use sex (or sexual relief) in order to manage traumatic feelings. I dont think they all do- some men dont feel sexual in these situations. So I am suggesting that if this is true for your h, then it may be true that he used the other woman in this way as well as porn? My h's example (internet sex with young women, followed by porn) fits this pattern.

losttheflickumdickumagain · 03/04/2012 22:43

Okay, huge long talk last night. Felt like we were finally getting somewhere. Asked him if I could look at his work laptop, he let me. The idiot hadn't properly deleted SMS messages he sent her the Monday morning AFTER I found out on the Saturday Sad Sad Sad I'm shaking all over again

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 03/04/2012 22:44

He won't leave and he won't let me take the car

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 03/04/2012 22:45

I can't take any more Sad

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MadAboutHotChoc · 03/04/2012 22:55

oh dear Sad

You need to get some legal advice - find a solicitor offering free first half hour to find out what they can do to force your H to leave. If you visit a few solicitors, you should be able to find out everything you need to know.

losttheflickumdickumagain · 03/04/2012 22:59

I swear, at the minute all I want to do us batter him. He's crying in the shed, still claiming fucking innocence (sorry, need to swear) I really want to kill him Sad

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