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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice please if anyone's up

705 replies

losttheflickumdickumagain · 26/02/2012 05:31

Cant believe I'm asking this, I think I know I'm clutching at straws.

Yesterday I found an old mobile in my husbands van (I never usually go I there). There were literally loads of calls made, as many as 10 a day up until 5:20 (he gets home around 5:45) I rang the number and a woman answered.

We have 3 dc's aged 5 and under. My world has just dropped from under my feet.

He's smashed the phone in temper, and he's saying someone at works been using it for the last couple if weeks. He swears he's not been having an affair.

I am clutching at straws aren't I?

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ParanoidPrue · 30/03/2012 22:56

Hi Lost - nice to see you again. Good to hear that you're going to Relate - if your relationship is anything like mine, the behaviour surrounding the "infidelity" is as important to tackle as the betrayal itself. So far as that behaviour is concerned, you say "he takes full responsibility" but what is he doing to tackle it? Has he analysed why he responded this way when he was so clearly in the wrong? Has he talked about what he will do to deal with that type of reaction if another such situation will arise? I'm thinking of your unusually confrontational approach with him and his very physical reaction...

As far as your niggles are concerned, I can sympathise I really do. In the last few weeks H and I have had some "truth sessions" although we haven't gone as far as Relate. More stuff has come out about his most recent betrayal - without going into details (it's not my thread after all!) it turned out that I was right about the girl in question and her intentions towards him. I'm just so annoyed that he took 6 months to tell me what I knew already but he was making out like I was some kind of crazy neurotic woman who was imagining things. To me, that is the more important betrayal - that he wasn't up front in the first place and let the whole thing escalate to the point where I really did think I was paranoid (hence the posting name!).

I think Mad has a good point about your instinct - it served me well in the past when I knew he was lying about that first time. However, since then, I haven't felt able to trust my own instincts. I think because once I knew what he'd been doing, I remembered all the times when we felt so close and I had no idea what he was up to. Not trusting him is one thing but now that I don't trust myself, I still feel like I'm tying myself in knots every time his phone beeps or he disappears and I can't account for his whereabouts.

I'm not helping am I?! All I can say is, keep your guard up. There's a reason that you feel naturally cautious and even if you don't know what that reason is, trust it and rely on it. Who's to say if we'll be with these men in a year's time but at least we won't be "mugs" (meant in the nicest possible way) whilst we're figuring out what we want.

fallenpetal · 30/03/2012 23:36

Hello Lost, I think you are doing amazingly well especially as he is in the same house as you

Ive just read the whole of your thread and can totally relate to the going round in circles and believing non believing which is why I am posting. I did the same thing as you almost, caught him out on MSN. He denied denied denied told me I was paranoid, feeling guilty because I had a male friend and was deflecting my guilt....
I was perfectly innocent btw said male friend was 300 miles away and I was completely open about our friendship and had known him for many years prior, but I did feel guilty he felt threatened by it - so I believed him..... he started being distant, constantly deflected my questioning back to my own problem.... He was a true expert at emotional abuse, I still carry the scars and just dont trust men anymore. Mind fuck of the biggest kind he did on a daily basis.

needless to say he was having an affair with a married woman for years sigh

Im not saying this must be happening in your case, tho imo it probably is I just dont want you to set yourself up for the fall in the way I did. Believe in yourself, its the only truth right now

FlatCapAndAWhippet · 31/03/2012 07:18

I was the same lost, I too began to believe, as I was constantly told, that I was paranoid, going insane, making things up ... Sad The truth of the matter was totally different ofcourse and I left with my dd (then 2) but three years on I still could not consider another relationship. I have huge trust issues and dramatic as it sounds, my XP has scarred me for life. No physical abuse, just words, but he's changed me.

It took me two years of wanting to believe him to waking up to reality.

Make your decision and then be true to that decision.

MadAboutHotChoc · 31/03/2012 07:39

What is he doing to take full responsibility?

I think you will find reading Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends very helpful in explaining why you feel the way you do.

MadAboutHotChoc · 31/03/2012 07:42

^all boils down to if I believe it was just a friendship or not

A part of me actually believes him

if I can live with the uncertainty isn't it?^

It does sound like you do not believe him really and this is likely to be for a very good reason Sad

fiventhree · 31/03/2012 09:34

Lost and Paranoidprue, we are in the same boat.

eg Madabouts h has offered her a story about the past which is credible to her, and she is making good progress in moving on.

The rest of us have been a bit less lucky so far.

I do agree with Prue that if you still have niggles, you probably have a reason.

Did you google Mrsorry?

losttheflickumdickumagain · 31/03/2012 17:03

Hello Smile thank you all for still talking to me Smile.

I've got the Shirley glass book, I've kept dipping into it, but dd hasn't been settling this week, so every time I've tried sitting down with it I've had to go and sit with her (and to be honest, every time i look at it i get upset) I'm going to make sure I get chance to have a good look at it this weekend.

I haven't heard of mrsorry, did I miss you mentioning that? I'll have a look.

As far as taking responsibility, I'm not sure what he's doing really. He admits this is all his fault, and he's not making me feel paranoid. He admits I'm justified questioning everything now. For the last couple of years we've grown apart a bit, but I admit I have been colder with him since I saw that photograph in his phone. It always bothered me, and I suppose since then I've had barriers up a bit. He says he had noticed I've been different with him, and rather than discuss things, any little niggles really, he'd rather avoid any sort if conflict and bury his head hoping it goes away. I'm the opposite, I'd rather sort it, even if it's just agreeing to disagree, then it's done and doesn't fester.

He knows this has been a big issue with us, and he's not blaming me. He admits things would never have got this bad if he'd talked to me. He said its his issue, and he's going to work on it. I know he does have issues from his first marriage, she was beyond awful, and I've always felt a bit like that's always in his mind. I know he knows I'm not anything like her, but I know his back goes up and he gets defensive a lot because of the way she made him feel if that makes sense?

I know we both needed a kick up the bum in this marriage, but not quite such a big one!

I still have no idea if I can stay with him Sad. I guess I'll be like this for a while.

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MadAboutHotChoc · 31/03/2012 17:20

Here's the Mrsorry thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1374432-Have-you-forgiven-infidelity?pg=2

losttheflickumdickumagain · 31/03/2012 22:12

Fiventhree I've just read that thread, and a paragraph you wrote (sorry, I'm crap at copy and paste stuff), is just like listening to my h. He's keeps saying I need to take a leap of faith, and it's amazing how he can't remember any conversations because it was boring inane stuff Hmm.

Do they know each other? Grin

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 31/03/2012 22:12

Thank you for the link mad Smile.

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MadAboutHotChoc · 01/04/2012 07:22

Tis ok - hope reading it has helped :)

fiventhree · 01/04/2012 08:40

Lost, I know there are similarities, which is why I have focussed on your thread.

Here is my 3rd January paragraph:

?I feel really stuck, but my h says it is a leap of faith which he cannot help me with, other than to be honest in future and to tell me everything he can remember> he seems not to be able to remember a fair bit, but he says that is because all the conversations were the same, and he cant remember individuals, even those with whom he had a number of conversations.?

No, I still feel a bit like this.

What I said then about his post infidelity behaviour has remained true- he is a very different man to live with, and it must continue to be alot of hard work for him, although he says it isn?t.

Eg he takes me alot into account, he tells me is was a truly shit father and ignored them alot, which was true, and he isn?t now.

He is loving towards me, and considerate. He comes to bed with me, when he didn?t often before. He is working like a dog, and fitting all this in too. He is not prioritising his own wants and interests. He is acknowledging and complimenting my contribution.

Etc etc.

But I still believe he is holding details back. He still is vague and cant remember the nitty gritty that much, he says.

Now, we are three months on, exactly, aren?t we?

So where does that leave me?

Well, I regret not kicking him out until I had the full story, as I think I may have qot it more quickly and saved myself alot of pain.

I don?t want to do that now and unravel all the progress we have/he has made.

But as I say, it is NOT the easy option, it just felt like it might be at the time.

The real difference now is that I have stopped obsessing about him and reading books on infidelity, sexual obsession, and god knows what else.

I have started to focus on myself, which is alot more healthy.

I have used the painful thread I had on 23 January to look at the issues in myself about how we got here, and started to look at my part in it.

I realised that I must have had, did have, some co dependent tendencies, always trying to fix him and his issues. I am looking at why that is, and addressing myself to stop that. I am no longer taking actions which help enable him to evade the consequences of his own behaviour. For example, if we discuss things, and he ever gets defensive or a bit irritated, I don?t back off, and I point out to him what he is doing. Not that he is doing alot of it.

I am reading a book on exploitative relationships and considering the elements of that which have affected me.

Another way of looking at it is this- it is sometimes said that every person has in themselves an adult, a parent and a child.

In our relationship, he was the child and I was the parent over many things.

Now we both have to be adults, as it is healthier, and the other parts are damaging to the relationship (other than, say, when an immediate crisis occurs over a death in the family, say, or similar).

So that is what I am focussing on.

I have also worked in other ways to put myself in a position where I could be financially independent of him if I needed to be, and in any case I have always known from previous relationships that I can actually cope if I have to live alone one day, not that I would prefer it.

If there are other details, they will come out, I have decided. He can work on himself or not, in order to be able to provide that. I think I am worth it.

And if he leaves it too long to work on himself to provide them, he will have to face the consequences.

Am away now till tomorrow night, but will be back.

fiventhree · 01/04/2012 08:47

And look at what Wisedupwoman has just written on Cwtchy's thread. So true.

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 13:49

Hope you're going somewhere nice five Smile.

This has all made me look I've behaved. I know I am overly emotional, and he can be very cool, always has been. So in our marriage this has made things worse. But I still stand by that is no excuse for what he's done. He should have talked to me.

I had a terrible weekend last week, and I told him on Sunday I wanted a divorce. I wasn't playing games or just saying it, I truly meant it. Then we talked all Sunday night, cried a lot, and I'm not sure what changed, but something did. Then I sort of gave myself a break from it all fir a couple if days. Obviously I was still tying myself up in knots thinking about everything, and I wasn't fooling myself it was okay. But now I'm back there again. It's driving be crazy Sad.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 13:50

Sorry about all the typos, still sausage fingering on my phone.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:10

We've just had another huge row Sad ive been pathetic and mentioned stuff on here, and the 'script'. He officially hates mumsnet and keeps saying he's fighting me and 100's of other women. He even told the relate lady that. God I'm crap at this Sad.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:13

I think we've come to a standstill and excepted he's got to leave Sad. I don't know how i'm going to do this Sad it would be so much easier to pretend I believe him.

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Teaandcakeplease · 01/04/2012 18:17

The only way is up from here my love. It hurts like hell. All I kept thinking was "what about the children" I was so cross, angry and sad all together. I never wanted my children to grow up in a separate home from their Dad but I promise you one thing, it will get easier. It will. Drink wine, smoke, ring a friend and bend their ear every night etc whatever works for you. You will get through this (())

Teaandcakeplease · 01/04/2012 18:19

You just do it, you do. Mine lived on convenience foods and CBeebies in the early days as I said somewhere down thread. Take one day at a time, put one foot in front of the other and take whatever support you can from friends and family. But ultimately know this is better for you and for the children. It is and you will one day find someone who will love you as you deserve. You will.

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:19

Thank you tea, to be honest, I'm making myself step away from the wine, (I've just put the kettle on) at least till the dc's are in bed.

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Teaandcakeplease · 01/04/2012 18:21

Good plan. I don't think I would have got through this time without mumsnet. Come back and talk later, we'll all be here.

izzyizin · 01/04/2012 18:24

Other than she's allegedly married, what exactly has he told you about the ow?

How did they meet and how often did they meet up, what was her appeal for him, does she live locally, does her dh know?

losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:34

She's someone he used to work with, she's about 50, married, 4 children in their teens. He used to talk about an old cleaner he loved at work, she worked with her. About 18 months ago, he changed the writing on his van, instead of the company name he put his on. He said she saw it and texted him to say hello, and ask if he knew of any vale ring jobs for her son, and they've been texting ever since. Talked about money worries, her husbands breakdown etc.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:34

He says they've never met, and she lives somewhere in Leeds.

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losttheflickumdickumagain · 01/04/2012 18:35

Sorry, auto correct, valeting jobs.

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