attracted to my dentist, what do I do? try not to laugh..!

[hisgentletouch]

I just realised that I really like and fancy my dentist of many, many years. I don't see him often, once a year usually. In Last two weeks I saw him twice for check-up and then some work. I'm a nervous wreck with dental stuff, and I was just struck how gentle and nice he was. I started thnking that I'd like his touch generally . I think there is a bit of attraction from him, he looked at my body couple of times but also we make each other laugh. He used to be married and he generally never seriously registered on my radar as I was in other relationships, even though there was always a bit of rapoprt and I liked him, he's youngish, 40s, and used to look nice but this year he looks very rundown and thin, which is not putting me off, the opposite! He's also a small guy and I usually go for tall (I'm tall). I find myself thinking about him a lot, as so many men I've been with in the past lacked this sensitivity. Suddenly it's not about looks or social confidence, I just like his personal qualities and that makes me attracted rather than obvious outward sexiness!
How do I approach it? I don't have his email address and it's not on their site. He's very busy and a partner in practice. I want to find out whether he's separated or divorced. There are no photos of the wife anymore, but I need to know for sure. I don't know either whether he'd be interested but would want to take a chance.
Has anyone got examples of this working for you, or for a friend?

The Dentists in the practice that I work have the 'Thank you' cards on display. I have received gifts too, usually from men and women alike. I did receive a lovely letter from a patient asking me out on a date recently.

However, my chair side manner has been misread as some sort of affection by some men, when I'm really trying to ease their nerves.
I wouldn't worry about the notes. We are advised to record everything, like if a patient cancels or fails to attend appointments, or if you have any preferences regarding your treatment, it all makes for a more personal treatment.

'Akiss, I fully see the point of lodging a complaint, though most people would complain to the surgery officially.'

Not in my experience, the most common complaints are made verbally to the receptionists or nurses. Formal written complaints are rarer. All are recorded in notes and appropriate protocol followed.

'But 'thank you' notes are nothing to do with protection, are they?'

They could be. It's best practice to record all correspondence.

'do you record them yourself?'

I ask the receptionist to scan them in, not all practices are computerised so this will vary.

toothgenie, another dentist, great! have you recorded the date invite in your notes? have you said Yes? if not, did you feel the need to respond and decline ot just ignored it?

AKiss, aer all dentists so formal? is life ever fun?Mine seems very easygoing, but who knows.

Kiss, I did mean complain to the surgery (not just in writing) rather than to the dentist personally.

At work we are professional. Outside of work less so. Can't you see the conflict in that you like your dentist for his professionalism and good manner, yet are hoping he'll ask you out which would be unprofessional of him.

no, this is very narrow view. I don't like him just as a dentist - as i say we make each other laugh and there seems to be chemistry. I know other dentists/doctors who are admirable professionally but wouldn't want to ask them out, I just like gentle men with good humour and haven't met someone like that in a while, it's a pure coincidence that he's a dentist (not all are as gentle). Also he's surely a person first, and a dentist second. At worst he could ask me out and transfer me to another dentist, and there are cases when doctors even marry patients, it's not impossible and why should it be.

Gentle touch - just a word to the wise and chose to disregard this if you want: you're coming across in a slightly haranguing fashion.

I'm sure you don't mean to. However, dentistry (like lots of professions) is a highly regulated environment. This is for lots of reasons - no less though for professional indemnity insurance which is very expensive and requires dentists to keep detailed notes. If not - their insurance is void. Further, there is the whole risk/issue of professional misconduct.

I'm sure that you're a very nice person but you must let him do his job and do what is appropriate under the circumstances. When I go and see dh at work, treated like any other patient and quite rightly so - complete with notes etc. I normally see him at the end of the day and yes, it's a bit dull waiting for him to type everything up before we leave but I wouldn't expect otherwise and it wouldn't be fair to take advantage of the fact that we are married to expect him not to. It's exactly that type of undue influence situation on either dentist or patient's part that the recording of the card in the notes is to avoid/mitigate. it the same for me when dealing with clients and doing file notes

I also know that if I started saying that dh was boring/overly formal it would go down pretty badly and I'd be looking for a new dentist.

I agree with shiny's post above.

You don't know this man op, you know his work persona yet you seem to have become a bit obsessed with him. You say you share the same humour but you don't know that. Of course he smiles and puts you at ease, that's his job. We all seek to find common ground with our patients - if I have a young man with tattoos in my chair I might chat to him about tattoos, if I have an old lady we might talk about her cat. That's all part of being a people person which makes a good dentist.

shiny, sorry if I came across like that regarding the rules, but I find it too much even logically speaking, having to record thank you cards - unless the dentist is a newbie maybe and is so proud of them/wants to show them to the seniors. Otherwise they could just keep them for their own interest. But this doesn't mean I don't accept it, I'm just voicing my own opinion.
AKiss - I'm hardly obsessed, that's just excitement. I knew him for 10+yrs and this is the first time I've felt like doing something. All I did is send a thank you note, and if I find it enjoyable to think about him and discuss here, what's wrong with that - that's how all attraction starts! I didn't ask him out, and I'm not digging info on him outside his work which I think would be obsessive. But it would be nice if he was interested in a date - precisely because I want to know him more, what he's like outside work. I'm not stupid and I know it can be a persona, but we do make each other laugh (I make him laugh as well as the other way round, it's not just polite smiling, he's not overly kindly). Obviously he may not be interested at all, and I might not be either when I know him better, but surely it's worth trying if I feel some mutual chemistry. What's there to lose. If nothing else he'll be pleased about a thank you and a (non-sexual) compliment.

guys check one out all the time imo. they don't seem to realise that women have eyes in the back of their heads and have extremely sensitive antennae to even the vaguest notion of interest

oh no! I meant that guys check out women all the time, not just me!

springyduffs, that's true about women having an antennae! there aer degrees thoug - some give you a quick once over (=not interested), some stare a bit which can be interest. Women also look at men of course but much more surrepticiously I think. The dentist did look at me quite a bit (the figure I mean, not just the face). Of cuorse he might be generally lusty and looks at many women, I wouldn't know!
I'm def-ly not turning up on his golf course! or anywhere - as I say we aer not in a small village. I've learned also that going to too much effort makes you really involved before you even know what he feels = not good!
what is risky, do you mean?

You haven't known him for 10+ years you've seen him annually on a professional basis, for what is probably less than 30 minutes per visit.

I'm going to leave this thread now as it's frustrating. Good luck OP.

well, I'm very sorry you think I'm duff gentle

ie 'golf course' - give it a chance to meet him socially. He's been very kind to you when you were vulnerable but you only saw him in that setting. I'm a bit tbh that he checked you out in the surgery - imo professionals should have it running through them like a stick of rock to be professional. but men can be a bit dim about this, see my previous post Obviously, they/we slip up a bit sometimes but from the sound of it, he made his 'interest' clear. I say 'interest' in inverted commas because imo someone who checks out your bod is interested in er sex. first and foremost. Sorry.

it's risky because he was doing his job. Yes, he has a gentle touch and yes he's all wan and sad... gentle, do you realise that this is NOT a good basis for a relationship? You want a healthy man my dear (listen to mother), not a sad car crash who can't help checking out someone who is funny. (yes humour is a turn on which some men see as come hither).

He probably got it clear and plain that you like him - though he may not be consciously aware of that iyswim. 'risky' for the above reasons, which people have posted about on your thread. If you saw him socially you would get a rounder picture of him and who he really is, not just he dentist who was kind and has a lovely touch.

AKiss, it's also frustrating to me that you misunderstand my posts. Of course I didn't mean I KNOW him well, it's a figure of speech, this was in context of being 'obsessed' according to you, I was saying hardly obsessed as I saaw him for 10+yrs and the attraction is new, last week or so, while obsessions aer long standing.

springydaffs - I think this is jumping the gun, I like him and would want to let jim know this (very gently) but all I want is to go for a coffee or something, and indeed to get to know him, I never said I've made up my mind about him as future partner and I'm not already planning a relationship! the fact he looks wan might be to do with anything, not neccessarily him being unhealthy but he might have had a physical illness or some recent stress in his life. I'm just sorry to see that he's not his normal cheery self, I feel sympathetic.
I honestly don't know how to meet him socially, don't have any info.
springy I did send a note and he can contact me if he wants to.

My DS's dentist flirted with me recently when my DS and the nurse left the room for an xray, which I happily played along with!

Initially I was very flattered but after thinking about it, I realised that it's probably that he's been so patient and kind with ds but, take him out of the dentist setting and i'm not sure I'd give him a second glance. Plus I'd be too paranoid about dating a dentist with my dodgy teeth!

I had a chiropodist once; attractive little guy who was rich. and told me all about his new car and planned holidays; a certain type of gal mightve responded to this, but I thought 'yuck' he'd be well into feet.

homework, so it does show that if they want to flirt, they would! maybe single male dentists are less careful. Would you go on a date if he asked? as to not giving a second glance - isn't it generally the case that unless you work or see someone regularly you wouldn't appreciate them? men who stand out in a crowd have an unfair advantage, as there may be nothing great about them once you get to know them (from own experience), the one 'type' I'm off now is 'the peacock' with no substance!

ThePS, haha yes, I see your point.

"he's surely a person first, and a dentist second"

Well yes, and no. You have met him at work and he is a dentist there, first.

If you are really attracted to him the only way you can get into a relationship with him is if this develops outside his work. If you don't know where he lives and there is no crossover between you except in his surgery, nothing will happen.

Your gentle little thank you note won't bear fruit. He would never risk 'misinterpreting it' by seeing it as a come on. Imagine if it were just a polite thank you and he responded by seeing it as a sexual overture. He would be screwed professionally.

The only other strategy open to you is to be blunt and open. Tell him to his face you are attracted to him and would like to see him socially, but that you accept that if he is interested you will have to find another dentist. You have no choice but to do this at his workplace, but if you are honest and open and make clear you understand the issues, he might respond positively.

I know the position with doctors and from what the dentists on this thread have said it sounds identical.

I fell in love with my daughter's GP a few years ago - head over heels. There were weird atmospheres - oscillating friendliness and coldness - at the surgery. After a couple of years of this, we both got dogs and started 'bumping into' each other dog-walking and he befriended me (naturally I was receptive). We are both married. He did an awful lot of trying to bump into me (pitching up when I was doing the school run etc) but if I ever said when I would be there, he wouldn't show. Long story but he suddenly changed and avoided me like the plague for 3 months, actually putting his dog in the car at lunchtime and driving it out of town.

I was gutted. Then suddenly he turned up again and was obviously trying to spend as much time with me as possible. Nothing was ever said. Then he told me his wife was pregnant with twins and I realised he'd come looking for me as soon as he knew their IVF had worked. Prior to that I had been expecting a quite different declaration from him.

Needless to say I cut him out of my life, took myself out of the practice, hid at home. He responded to this by semi-stalking me, walking his dog past my house daily for two and a half years, having never taken this route before. Within three months of my cutting him out, he had lost about two stone and looked haunted,, all the time as an expectant father of twins.

I have no doubt this man was in love with me, but his being a doctor, his professional responsibilities and status and the fact that I was so off-limits meant nothing could happen. Rather than leave it alone he fudged things. He was addicted, but tormented. It was all a mess and my marriage was profoundly damaged. I have no idea what his situation is like now, but it was a sorry-looking relationship to bring twins into. I am over him now, but it took a long, long time.

Sorry for the essay, but I have learned from this experience. These professional responsibilities are very serious and the boundaries have to be maintained. I think it's easy to forget sometimes how important men's jobs are to them. You and this man may both be single and this is of course very, very different, but any personal relationship would have to be completely separate from the dentist-patient relationship. Anything else would be unprofessional.

A postscript is that I am now three years into training to be a doctor myself and I understand much better than I did five years ago how strong the taboos are. Knowing what I know now, I would run a mile from the situation I got myself into, it had to end in tears. It is not just from a medico- (or dento-)legal point of view that all this matters, it is innate to the almost mystical trust that is deemed to be implicit in the relationship between the professional and the patient. Trust me, by the time training is completed, these values are (or should be) hard-wired. If you start this training at the tender age of 18 (not at 38, like me!) this is absolutely the case.

So when you say someone is a person first, and a dentist second, I say, well, yes, and no. One of the doctors I met first in my training, who had a big impact on me was a cardiologist who told me that she identified herself as a doctor even before she identified herself as a wife and mother. That being a doctor was almost part of her DNA.

Again, apologies for the essay. I sympathise a lot with your situation, but I don't see a relationship coming out of this unless you accept and understand the boundaries and how clear they have to be. I don't get the impression from your posts that you really do understand the issues or take them seriously and you really have to if you are serious about a relationship with this man. If you gain him as a lover, you will have to lose him as a dentist. It's not unfeasible that you gain him as a lover but not while he's your dentist, no way. Good luck OP. You will have to decide if you are prepared to blunt.

Btw, I am a tall woman as well, and I prefer tall men. I married someone my own height, but I've always wished he were taller. We are divorcing now. If there is ever a husband no. 2, he's going to be very tall indeed!

Lizzie, thank you so much for your interesting and heart-felt post. I did read your story before on MN, though it was written from a different point of view.
First of all, I wouldn't agree that I don't take the rules seriously - all i was doing is arguing with the rules from am outsider's point of view, which is not the same as not HAVING to accept them. Of course I will have to take hte rulesseriously if anything comes out of it, I just don't havea choice. It just seems to me cruel to squash any personal life at the altar of a job, and for what - for normal consntual interaction between adults who may be really right for each other, this is general I'm not talking about me and him per se. I mean take your case - he did pursue you, because his love overpowered his job, and so what that you had to change the doctor, I could live with going to a different dentist. I think in your case it's you both being married and especially his wife trying the IVF that was a non-starter. My point is if he was single his job wouldn't stop him as he was seekingyou out all the time socially. It helped that you lived in a small place in that respect, which is not an option for me. I'm sorry that this shattered your marriage too, but especially that you aer left with 'what might have been', I think the only consolation can be that he may not be as loveable once you knew him. He sounds weak, why continue with ivf and lie to his wife while being in love with you abd trying to almost stalk you? he should have left, as you have, and then gave you both a proper chance, not kept daydreaming and shadowing you instead!
The thing is I'm moving from London soon as it happens, so I can change dentists, though so far I wasn't planning to. He mainly did check ups on me, and a couple of simple treatments over 10yrs so it's not like I have to have him as a dentist, though I would want to have my cake and eat it if possible (like the wife of a dentist upthread who has her teeth done by her H) if anything hapened of course.
I can see your point about being blunt: yes, he wouldn't have any evidence to put in his notes, but also there are no hints for him to misinterpret. But there aer two issues with this, first of all he may still be married and then will have to reject and i will have to lose him as demtist for nothing. Second, and even more obvious, is that the nurse is always there! she was out this time literally only when injection was done and working - couldn't ask him then ! and, now I don't have any appointments coming for a year unless something urgent happens. I could of course write a direct note which is embarassing if others see it. What would you suggest in these circs? I was hoping that if he's in touch about my note even just politely, THEN I could be more direct by email. Assuming he used personal email or phone (but would he do that? sounds like not after all that's been said). I'm not head over heels so in a way it's not such a big deal asking him out but I don't want public awkwardness.

gentle

Slow down. Your posts are starting to sound like a Heathcliffe and Cathy scenario.

It sounds like you are planning a future on a fantasy/crush. Enjoy your crush but be very prepared that it will NOT be returned and you will be embarrassed.

You want all the posters on this thread to say go for it, have fun, he wants you etc etc.

I counsel caution. Stop now. My dentist is lovely and kind and I like him, but I am paying him £100 per check up. I want nice and kind and gentle and a chat but I never read further than that. He is doing his job and his DSA is always in the room with us taking down the chart and the notes of the appointment.

He is doing his job and his personal life is that. Personal.

redruby aer you serious? I keep saying that I'm NOT head over heels (have you misread) and that I don't know whether I'll like him once I know him, please do read the posts. All I ever said is I'm attracted and I think there is a mutual chemistry. All I've done is send a thank you to which he will or will not respond. The last post was in answer to the serious post of Lizzie's where a doctor pursued her (she became part of his personal life tbh), and she suggested being direct which I was then discussing. I really can't see WHERE did I ever say that this is a big romance already!?
I wanted to hear from people with similar experience or maybe dentists who had this experoence, and whether it worked or not. I've done something quite tame and innocent so far, and said repeatedly that I'm not going to try and meet him socially as I have no clue - so what do you mean by 'stop' when I wasn't even planning anything. I'm waiting for his response or non response, that's all. If he did respond (IF) then I said I wouldn't mind changing dentists.