how could he :(

[chocoraisin]

I've just come 'home' after staying with my parents for a month, having found out about the OW the week after NY. I'm 17 weeks pg, with an 18mo DS.

So I'm back at the place I have shared with H for nearly 4 years, and our neighbours (who are lovely and devastated on mine and DS's behalf) brought me pizza for tea to be supportive. I stupidly asked them if she had been seen here. H has sworn blind he wouldn't do anything in our home. I know I shouldn't have asked, think I was stupid enough to be looking for reassurance.

Apparently they regularly see her leaving in the morning in the month I've been away. AND heard them having sex. My neighbour could have sugar coated it, but to be fair, I asked and she was so embarrassed and upset for me I know it was one of those 'oh god she put me on the spot, crap I'll just blurt it out' moments, not said to hurt me.

We share a one bed flat. He has had sex with her in our bed. Next to our sons cot. Below our wedding photo on the wall. And she knows I'm pregnant.

How could he? Never mind what kind of a skank she must be to be ok with that. He has been texting/calling this month acting like we can be instant best friends... and perfect 'coparents'... but my trust in him is shattered. I hate the thought of being near him. I literally feel sick about having no option but to sleep in that bed tonight.

I don't know what to do :( I just need some hand holding tonight please.

To top it off, DS is exhausted but after a month away won't settle in his cot and just shrieks when I put him down so I'm looking at another long, broken night. 'Daddy' is due to visit tomorrow for his contact time.

I can't believe what's happened to my life :(

hi new people :) thanks for posting :) LOL @ pheonix rising... I must be the most unstreamlined phoenix ever to heft herself off the sofa let alone out of the ashes hehe

Hey Epi, I agree, at least he was listening...baby steps all round I guess. Best to focus on the positives!

I found out this morning that my practical house option has also been rented already so I'm back to no options, but I'm ok about for now. I realise what is practical and what isn't. Mum and dad will keep me and DS here for the forseeable so if I can just relax and be patient, I need to find the right home, not just any house. So hard to chill out but I'm trying!

My appointment went ok thanks... the CP said he doesn't consider it his job to talk anyone out of a c-sec, and suggested I print the NICE guidelines and request to be assigned a consultant who supports me He thinks it's his job to actually treat the birth trauma, not to assess it so that it can be weighed up as 'valid or not'. If it's there, it's valid. So I have two weeks to think about whether I want to do the sessions with him or not (no pressure lol). They would be offered to help me cope with a) the previous birth trauma, b) my husband leaving me while pregnant and c) preparing for the next birth/coping with my chronic pain. I feel strangely relieved, but also a bit anxious about the thought of talking about everything - even though it will probably help. Obviously it's brought a lot to the surface though because I'm all teary and fragile since speaking to him.

He pointed out it will be harder to do it when I have two small children, and suggested I think of him as the thoughts rubbish collector... he doesn't want to 'fix' me, just help me clear out the rubbish (flashbacks, shock and trauma) so that I can free up my head to get on with the business of grieving, processing my new situation and ultimately, healing. Have any of you been to this kind of therapy? It's definitely not counselling, I think it's called eye movement desensitisation therapy and thoughts on whether to give it a shot are welcome!

Hello. Sounds very interesting but afraid I have no personal experience on which to base any advice. I can't help thinking that any therapy which gives you the chance to 'free up your head' and move on must be a good thing.

I know it will be hard to talk through it all, but as you know from posting on here, sometimes just being able to share your thoughts and feelings can help you to shape them into something more useful. If they can also give you ways to deal with those feelings then I'd be inclined to give it a shot.

2nd babies are often much easier births than first so please don't worry that it will be a repeat of last time. I don't remember reading specifically about your previous birth trauma, but I know that I was put off having a 2nd DC for nearly 5 years after a pretty awful first time, but 2 & 3 were totally different experiences.

Hi Choco I haven't used it myself but I have a friend who's just started it to deal with PTSD and everything I've heard about it sounds amazing. I did some CBT about 15 years ago (not the eye movement therapy, but it had similar 'helping you deal with things' goals) and found it really practical and really, really helpful. It wasn't "lets talk about the roots of all this endlessly" it was "what can we do to help you through the really hard times, and help you to get better" - it was just what I needed at the time, I basically found it amazing. Hard, yes, because there were things that I'd kept locked in a box that I didn't want to throw out cos that would involve opening the box... (if you see what I mean) but so, so, so worth it. No more being scared that the box wouldn't stay locked! After the first session I was shaky and after the third I was bloody triumphant and glorious. (and a bit shaky)....

I say: go for it! Why not get all the support you can to be the strongest you can be, before DS2 shows up (with his froggy limbs and gorgeous smell and snuffly breathing and tiny fingers and OMG I AM SO EXCITED FOR YOU ABOUT YOUR BABY! :) ) and your life gets even more complicated?

Hope you're having a good Monday.

You have loads of time to find a house .. after all you were going to need to pay rent on that cottage until the right time to move - this way you can save while staying with your folks until nearer the time

Good news that you are getting the choice on your birth .. I had an emergency c-section and didn't have any pain afterwards at all ... Fingers crossed it works the same for you Choco

hi all... feel so stupid. I just sent a long rambly text to H and I know I shouldn't have sent it. GAH

"I can't believe how much of DS life you're missing, it upsets me so much. I can't even imagine how you will be a real father to the new baby. And for what? A fantasy that life with someone else will be better? It's so selfish and stupid. I don't know how we will ever really forgive you... I only keep it to myself how I feel because you seem to selfish to even begin to understand what you've done. If you really believe she is worth losing your part in your babies childhood... God you just have no idea. If I wasn't so angry I'd feel sorry for you."

he obviously hasn't replied.

:( don't know what made me send it today. Pointless.

just want to cry.

oh lovey. I can understand why you sent it. You really havent ranted and screeched at H and got it all out of your system. (From what Ive read on here, you've kept it all inside)

I think it is cathartic to get all the sweary stuff out in the open and then move forward.

Do you feel better for having sent it? Probably not, because you wont get the answer that you deserve.

Maybe a good idea is to write down how you feel/what you want to say to H - either on here or a piece of paper, but do NOT send it to him.

You have been so strong. Take care. ((wee hug))

no I feel stupid and pathetic for sending it :(

I just want this to all be over. I don't want my life to be like this :(

I am just feeling so horribly sad

Don't beat yourself up about telling him the truth. As Jax said, you do need to get it out in the open and maybe the big talk the other day has opened the flood gates, so let it all out and don't feel pathetic, its part of moving on.

If he doesn't respond, don't imagine that its because he's not moved by what you've said - probably the opposite. He doesn't know what to say (and he knows whatever he says will be woefully inadequate) so he will probably say nothing at all.

You have every reason to feel horribly sad and as the birth of DS2 approaches you will naturally mourn the loss of the life you had envisaged for you all. He is an idiot and she is a home-wrecking bitch of the highest order. Telling them the truth does not make you the pathetic one. x

he did reply.

he says that he just didn't feel the way about me that I wanted him to, and although what he did was unforgivable it's not the reason we aren't together. He doesn't regret our marriage because he has DS and loves him more than anything but that we both made our marriage and it wasn't ever going to work.

He didn't mention his other baby at all.

I did reply, saying that whatever he thinks about me a marriage takes time, commitment and love, and patience. Raising children isn't everything but it is special and precious and should have been important. No-one else is going to be so different that they don't need and expect the same from a relationship.

and by the way you have two children who both deserved better.

I can accept that people grow and change, but it's what people do. I can't accept lying and cheating was his only way out.

He is a lying, cheating scumbag and because you wouldnt treat someone the way he has it is hard to understand and reason why he would do that to you.

Sadly you probably wont get the answers you need. He just doesnt give a toss about how badly he has hurt you. He may say the right words, but his actions have proved otherwise.

You will get over this, I promise you.

I just cant stop the tears today

ok I need to turn off my phone :(

have sent another message now asking why it's so important to him that I accept his point of view that the marriage was doomed. It was doomed because he didn't want to be married, it doesn't matter what I wanted or what I was prepared to do. Or if I loved him, or was prepared to invest in our relationship, or would have supported him in whatever he wanted to do... he wanted to be single. The only thing a marriage can't support. So all the 'we made our marriage' stuff is pointless and irrelevant and stupid? He left it. In a horrible, thoughtless, callous and loveless way. And now he wants me to conceed that it would have failed anyway, to make himself feel better.

I need to stop caring, and rebuild my wall of silence. This just fucking hurts so much.

So sorry for you. Have a ((big un-MN hug)) and a virtual tissue!

He obviously thought your marriage was ok when DS2 was conceived only a few months ago. He seems to have conveniently forgotten about him in all of this. We all have our issues in relationships, that is never an excuse to do what he did to you and you really are better off without such a self-centred arse.

Although staying together 'for the children' isn't ideal, most of us are prepared to work at things because we have made that commitment to each other and to our children, we don't just shack up with the next person who comes along because it seems easier.

FWIW he will have to work ten times harder at his relationship with OW as it comes with the added bonus of 2 lively boys and a strong and spirited ex. x

Yes, maybe now is the time to put the wall back up. He isn't capable of saying what you need to hear. I think its great that you have let your guard down for these few days to show him the reality of his actions, but for your own protection, turn off the phone or ignore any more messages from him and start to take care of yourself again today. Plan for the future, maybe sort out some baby stuff or look at some house details. Anything to put a positive spin back on your life without him.

Hi choco .. instead of sending him the texts - out what you want to say on here

Nothing he could say would make you feel any better and in fact is making you feel worse.

You'll come through the other side of this xx

Hi choco, I just wanted to say you are absolutely right to feel hurt and angry about his insistence that your marriage was 'doomed'. It's an inevitable but shocking form of rationalisation that EVERY person who has an affair and leaves tries to impose on the narrative. Exactly as you say, it's far far more likely that he has a problem with fidelity and selfishness generally. But the brain is extremely resistant to encountering such permanent, negative conclusions about the self, it will do anything rather than that.

As you say, if the narrative he can build is that you were never suited and his straying was therefore inevitable, then both he and his girlfriend have simply fulfilled that narrative. And of course he can convince himself and her that in that new relationship he will suddenly be selfless and faithful (he won't. The clinging to this narrative is a genuine indicator of that). But he can pretend he brought forward the natural ending of something earlier so as to free both of you from its 'constraints'. Everyone in his mind profits so wildly from this narrative (even you, free to meet someone who you really love!) that there's no way he's going to give it up, he's even going to try and spread it like a doctrine among friends and family and yes, even you.

What's particularly painful and callous about this is that somebody steals not only your future but your past too, erasing and rewriting that which you devoted yourself too. It's okay to feel appalled at that. You're not wrong. You were happy. He was happy. And you both were happy with the ups and downs that everybody has, that are, actually the thing that is inevitable.

I agree wholeheartedly with vander he can try to rewrite your history for his own gain as much as he wants to, but you know how you felt and were happy.

Dont interact with him any more today darling, he's not making you feel any better.

it is not important that you accept my opinion on anything. It has always been an absolute that I accept yours. That has been one way. We will probably never agree on that. I only mention DS because he is the only one I have experience of, I know I will love my second son just as much and want the same bond with him. This will be difficult and will take a hell of a lot of work from all of us.

Even now I'm not sure how much you appreciated the efforts and lengths I went to to make you happy and make our lives comfortable. I tried to connect with you over your hobbies and interests but they changed on a monthly basis and I could never be sure who I would be living with next. My interests never changed and I don't think you did much to connect with me over them. As a result our small amount of spare time was divided and our conversation was fairly difficult.

I tried to make it clear to you throughout our marriage that I was not happy about. At times there were small improvements, but your mood and energy levels would change back again. Because I had a small child to look after, and got no help perhaps??

I got so tired of trying to talk to you about things over and over again that I just got on with it and clearly built up some resentment. I guess I should have done things differently, but yes it definitely changed how I felt about our marriage. It's hard to tell you about how stressful I found you at times and I'm sorry but I couldn't see it getting better. I did not want things to end the way they did it was beyond shit and nobody deserves it. I can only be sorry and try to do my best for you and the DCs' in the future while endeavouring to keep myself on an even keel

this is his version of events.

he has 3 interests: football, video games and techno.

My interests were always the same, friends and family - getting out and about and doing fun stuff like day trips, or going to see people for the day at the beach etc. When DS came along, the only change was the focus on spending time with him and DS as a family. When we were pre-DC we went out to restaurants, to friends houses and occasionally clubbing.

When DS came along I did everything alone because he refused to meet any new friends with children (they were bound to be 'old and boring'), refused to pay for baby sitters so we couldn't go out (we were too poor because he was a student, even though my salary was supporting him to do that) and he wouldn't entertain people at our house. No babysitters also ruled out me going anywhere without him in the evening because his 'exercise' took priority.

Even when we did actually go clubbing pre-DC it was boring as fuck because he would always complain about the music because it wasn't up to his standards. And football was always 'exclusive' - something he did to be 'with the boys'.

When he says he 'tried to talk to me' he means he told me he was 'depressed' when DS came along, which excused him playing video games on his own every night, in a dark room at the other end of the house, leaving me alone with just my laptop for company between feeding DS. He refused to do anything sociable and eventually went on AD's so that he could feel better - then used the diagnosis of depression as a justification for going to the gym all the time, playing football 2-3 times a week and writing off sex completely from our lives because he 'didn't feel like it'. So, no intimacy through conversation, or physical touch or time together for me.

When he says I expected him to accept my point of view and this was 'always one way' he is talking about basic things like me saying: No the baby cannot sleep in the living room with the dog, the baby needs his own space. No that is not negotiable - babies are not the same as dogs. Or, me: lets sort out some decorating so that it's more of a family home, would you like to come and help me choose the paint/wallpaper get involved? Him: don't change my house I like it just the way it is (as a bachelor pad) and it doesn't need anything to be different. If you insist on doing it you have to do it on your own, I refuse to help you.

I just feel empty and sad and hurt. He has constructed this person in his head instead of me. Someone who is obstructive, selfish and vile to live with, who didn't care about him or listen to him and who was a crap wife in every way. He doesn't recognise that he went to uni purely because I encouraged him, supported him financially and did ALL the childcare to enable him to get on with it. Or that I gave up everything dear to me when we got married to move to his city instead of London where I was spectacularly happy, had friends, a job and a life. Instead of seeing any of that as important or me being part of his life he sees it as me being a boring drain on him. I feel sick. He talks about me like he never loved me, I just feel horrific and hurt all over again.

This is exactly why I refused to talk to him in the first place. What have I done except open the door for him to tell me what a shit person I am and what a shit wife I was? Its so incredibly painful I just can't bear it. I feel like a useless, worthless piece of shit right now - I was never good enough for him and now he expects me to 'work incredibly hard' to make sure he has the same bond with baby number two, who he has abandoned.

I want the pain to stop.

I know it sounds awful when I put my version of events too. But I always thought he was off because he was tired (like me) working hard (for our future) depressed (because the doctor said so) and that marriage, especially with young children, is hard.

I believed in for better or worse.

I don't care any more. I was happy to be laying the foundations for our future... I thought that hard work and sleepless nights and pulling your weight was part of the deal with marriage, I didn't think good things like a strong and healthy marriage came for free. I knew it took effort. Obviously he saw it differently, saw me differently. I just can't comprehend how I ever believed he loved me :(

I haven't replied. All of that stuff from him came as one message. I've just sat here crying instead.

oh choco it is so sad seeing inside the mind of a purely selfish person, isn't it? as Vander said, he had to construct this story of your life together (robbing you of your past) so that he can allow himself to have destroyed it. It's the only way he can live with himself.

He's a tosser, I'm afraid, love. It sounds like you look back now and realise that he's treated you badly for a long time, and he wasn't as committed as you were. That must be so so painful - I know it would tear my world apart, it's absolutely awful.

Turn your phone off and ignore him. You know that he is wrong, his behaviour has shown you that he has no moral compass so how can you trust his moral judgement, or any of his discernment on how things have been? You can't. He's wrong. You don't need to give him any more airtime.

Go find your mum and get her to give you a big hug and a cuppa and several biscuits and make a plan for how you are going to get these feelings out without telling him, because as you've now seen, you're not going to get the realisation from him that you want. He's always going to have his excuses, it's never going to be his fault. Fuck him, fuck his absurd excuses, fuck his 'we will have to work hard' patronizing bullshit ... excuse me I am getting sweary about how badly he's treating you!The dream is that he says "Gosh, I've never thought of it like that before -thank you for opening my eyes, now I know what an awful human being I've been, how can I ever make it up to you?" - but a man would would have been open to that kind of insight is NOT a man who would have done what he's done. So - seriously, fuck him!

I think you want to treat yourself to a book, which you can title "My journey to freedom" or something suitably uplifting, and use it to write the story of your life in. Or here, or an anonymous, entirely private and invisible blog... whatever works. Give yourself some way to articulate and explain your feelings, so you can come to terms with them. And go to the CBT person, even just so you have a space to get it all out.

and also many, many hugs from me. Have a cuppa and a cry and know it won't always be like today. It will pass.

Of course you did. I'm so sorry choco. This is boringly standard stuff from him. Raking over events, differences and trying only to remember and exacerbate the negative. It deserves the response, 'I understand you have to think that in order to cope with what you've done.' He is necessarily deluded and of no use to you. Stop talking to him and regain power and independence. His construct of you is false and will keep having to get worse in order to support his decision to leave you. The best way to be happy and to remind yourself of your worth is to be the you you really are. It is particularly cruel to make you feel partly responsible for what was entirely his fault.

I'm sorry you are going through this Choco .. it's all part of the script though .. I was also told that if I'd been a better wife (and gave DD less attention and him more) he wouldn't 'have had to have an affair'

I was a bit further down the line having suspected for most of last year so my response was 'Whatever!!!' but I am so sorry that you are hurting so much

xx

Oh choco He's an absolute fucker. He's altered reality so that it suits him and justifies his appalling behaviour.

Vile man.

Choco I've been following your post and I just wanted to say you have been amazing. My ExP has started to concoct his own version of events to "justify" why he was unfaithful (twice). I haven't got the inclination or energy to argue with him. If he choses to live in denial, let him. Its bloody hard starting again with little ones, but I know that I'd rather have the struggle than live with the uncertainty of him screwing around again. You wont get any benefit from engaging with him on this. Conserve your energy for whats important - you and the kids x x

thank you :( I feel so confused that part of me was afraid I would post his messages and everyone would start asking, well does he have a point? Were you so stressful to live with? I feel so undermined and upset it's hard to know that it's all just his own shit. I wish I could separate my sense of myself from his assassination of our marriage. Deep down I know I'm not the person he is making me out to be, but it shakes my self belief so badly when he seems so certain that I am at fault. It makes me feel terrible that he wants me to be responsible for my kids not having their father around as well :(

Considering writing an email or something later along the lines of:

I realise that we both have our own memories of our marriage and need to make sense of our future in our own ways. I have no interest in trying to talk about these different perspectives at Relate again (he's been asking me to go back), and now realise there isn't much point in trying to do it in any other way either. As there is no hope of repairing our marriage, or building a friendship now, I think it's best to go back to only speaking when it is directly relevant to the children...

or something. I don't know. I want to be all cool and detached and say 'whatever' (go you LW!) but I don't have it in me. I don't know what to say. I just want to never see him or speak to him again, but I have to see him on Friday :( again. And again and again and again.