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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If my son were my daughter... LONG!

168 replies

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 16:37

My son is in his midtwenties, and is engaged to and living with his DF. They've been together for about 8 years, and I think she was his first GF, certainly the only one he has ever mentioned or introduced. I have always found it difficult to like her or even get to know her; in all of that time I have only heard her chat freely once, and was astounded at her cattiness and lack of empathy, but I suppose she's young. (I made no comment at the time, nor have I since.) They are due to marry later this year.

She has a difficult family background and this has caused her problems with insecurity and self-esteem, including eating disorders; this was disclosed to me when every invitation to a family event resulted in her being "sick" at the last minute. Despite not having a "chatty" relationship, she has confided in me about some events in her past and ended up sobbing in my arms a couple of times. I have suggested counselling, offering to drive her to appointments, and even sourcing the help available, but she has taken no action so far as I know. I concluded she's a bit of a drama queen (understandably) and left it.

Until they moved out about 15 months ago, they both slept in my home 3 or 4 nights a week, spending the other nights in her home. They would come back from work or college, collect their meals from the kitchen and vanish upstairs to eat and watch TV in his room. They did not participate in family life at all, did no housework and paid no rent, but DH and I left them to it. We were, tbh, relieved when they moved out, as DS had constant clashes (verbal!) with his dad and younger brother and the atmosphere could be uncomfortable at times.

So far, so normal.

However, since then she has decided that she hates me, and is refusing to speak to me. Xmas gifts were pointedly from him, not them. When I asked DS what was going on, he told me his DF feels I betrayed her confidence when I spoke to a friend when seeking help in supporting her with her eating disorder; said friend is a bit of an expert on the topic and the information I disclosed to her has gone no further. So yes, I did breach her confidence but only because I was worried about her, and I have apologised and explained this to her, but my apologies are not accepted. DH is included in the "not speaking to" category by virtue of being DH, and DS2 is also included because of the sibling rivalry going on when they all lived here.

DS feels caught in the middle, but is still speaking to us and even managing to be civil to his DB now they live apart. He's in a difficult situation and none of us wants to make that any worse.

However, DH and I recently bumped into one of DS's good pals from school, and were disturbed to realise that DS hasn't seen him in over a year. Plans had been made a few times, but cancelled at the last minute when DF was "sick." DS2 met another of DS's old friends (DS was best man at his wedding 18 months ago, this couple introduced DS to his DF) and he hasn't seen DS in a long time either. The married couple have often invited DS and DF to social events, but every time DF was "sick" at the last minute. They haven't even seen DS and DF's new home.

There are other examples, he has left one club, drastically reduced his involvement with another, and given up a third pastime he had recently taken up, all since moving in with her. They live in a property belonging to her family, in her village.

So, if my son were my daughter, I'd be sitting her down for a chat about red flags and abusive behaviour. I'd be pointing out that DF is attempting (and achieving) to isolate her from friends and family, and is emotionally manipulative. I'd maybe even say that, damaging as DF's background was, it doesn't excuse such controlling behaviour in the here and now. I might point out that DF cannot be "fixed" by love or responsibility alone.

But I have a horrible feeling that attempting such a conversation would result in a complete break from family. What, if anything, can or should I do? Keep my nose out and not be an "interfering MIL from Hell"? Or attempt the talk and maybe make everything so much worse?

OP posts:
SulkySullenDame · 28/01/2012 01:06

This seems to be happening with my baby brother. Extremely upsetting all round and has escalated since they married and had children. For me it's like someone has stolen my brother, so I can't imagine how awful it is for my Mum who is a wonderful Mum and Granny to me and my kids Sad

BayPolar · 28/01/2012 01:39

I can't believe the first few comments.

This girl is estranging herself and the mother's son from the family.
This is not healthy.
The fact he hasn't seen other friends, might or might not be related to this, it might just be that he's moved on, but moving on shouldn't include bad relations with family, especially family who were obviously patient and giving in the past, letting them use the family home as a hotel, not bothering to interact.

I think both the son and the girl have problems of respect for their elders.
If I was a parent, I'd be disappointed in this son.

izzyisin · 28/01/2012 01:42

already don't like her parents because of what they did What have they done that is so awful that she and your son rent a house from them?

It occurs to me that, as you've never met them, you've only got her word for what they 'did' and I'm wondering what she's told themyou've done?

I suggest you send her dps (note: dps only, not your son or their dd) an invitation to Sunday tea so that you can find out how the land lies break the ice now as, given that they've been 'courting' for 8 years, I can't think of anything more bizarre than meeting her dps for the first time on the day of the wedding.

If she's learned her manners from them, it could be that they'll rudely decline to attend without explanation . Neverthless, it will have served it's purpose by enabling you to give her dm a call - after all, you don't want to turn up on your son's big day wearing the same dress/hat/colours as the mother of the bride, do you?

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 28/01/2012 02:12

BayPolar, disappointed or not, he's still my son. Even though he's a grown-up, I care about him. And I care about the woman he is going to commit to, because that impacts on him.

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 28/01/2012 02:22

Oh, Izzy, I wish I could explain properly... But the situation is too complicated, although I can say that her parents most definitely were not a good influence. They don't rent from her parents, it's a different family connection. Small village, you have to live there for several generations, y'know?

OP posts:
izzyisin · 28/01/2012 02:35

Surely that's even more reason to avoid turning up in an identical outfit to the MOTB - people may think you're too closely related part of their clan.

What harm can come from inviting them over for tea one Sunday? You don't have to put on a full Hyacinth Bucket spread - a slice of M&S spongecake and a cuppa will suffice.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 28/01/2012 02:44

I'm sorry, Izzy, it's just not going to happen. And frankly, if it did, I'd be hard-pressed not to get all Hyacinth Bucket about the way they treated their children.

OP posts:
RealLifeIsForWimps · 28/01/2012 02:48

I used to have a bf like this in my mid twenties. "Why do you have to see your friends so much? What can you talk to them about that you can't talk to me about?" "But I want to spend time with you alone" etc etc. And the grand finale "Why do you even need friends. Isn't our relationship enough?"

"Er, no, cos you're a total nutter. Bye."

izzyisin · 28/01/2012 02:56

Isn't there some saying about the parents of the bridegroom 'losing a son and ganing a daughter'?

It sounds to me as if you lost him some time ago and you're not to going to gain anything if he weds this particular young woman.

Let's hope the Jesuit maxim holds good and escapes what's beginning to sound like a cult.

solidgoldbrass · 28/01/2012 03:06

SHe's a horrendous, manipulative twat, a professional victim and emotional vampire. But your DS will have to find this out for himself. As does anyone who gets embroiled with people like this. All you can do is keep on being nicey nicey nice, reminding your DS that you love him and doing your best to keep up contact with him. People who get embroiled with vampires need those who love them to keep up contact and tread carefully round the vampire; they have to come to the realisation themselves that they are in a toxic situation.

Heyyyho · 28/01/2012 08:35

She seems to have an immense amount of baggage at best and at worse as sgb said she is toxic and will manipulate his life and soul away.
I can't believe you are paying for this wedding under these circumstances. No one would blame you for withdrawing that promise until they were civilised toward you at least!

Can you imagine when she has children, I really feel for you. I think it's every parents worst n ightmare actually.

Ploink · 28/01/2012 08:58

I really sympathise. I have been your son in these relationships and the reason I left was because it just got too much for me. I went home to my parents and I am so grateful I was able to do that, so don't cut him off or anything.

My brother is now in a similar relationship and his DF has managed to isolate him from all his friends and family just as you describe. His DF has issues and is manipulative, controlling, tells lies, is constantly finding things to be upset about and then demanding apologies and fakes illnesses to get her own way. She has even pretended to be comitting suicide to get him to do what she wants and has attacked my brother physically. It's horrible to watch but in the end there was nothing more I could do and I've had to back off.

Ploink · 28/01/2012 08:59

You're paying for the wedding?! You've already allowed them to live with you rent free for god knows how long! I wouldn't pay. In a way it is enabling it to continue.

Ploink · 28/01/2012 09:12

Do you invite them over the Sunday dinner for example? What happens? Will she cancel? If so does he come alone?

You say they were always in their room when they lived with you, did you ever ask them to spend time downstairs?

HereIGo · 28/01/2012 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 12:20

Ploink, she's already given them the money for the wedding, before she was told she was hated.

OP, are you able to phone or email your son at work? He might be a bit more free to talk to you then. I would have to have contact with him; no DIL would stop that happening!

kaluki · 28/01/2012 12:25

Don't withdraw the wedding money. Ir will be playing right into her hands.
She will twist that to be you victimising her, which is what she wants.
Then he might think shes got a point ...
Then that's you cut off!

I know how women like her work and agree totally with HereIGo.

ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 12:48

Yes, kaluki's right, don't withdraw the money. Focus on having more contact with him, whether that's verbal or written, and never say anything bad about her.

fiventhree · 28/01/2012 14:09

I dont think it harms to tell him your view, as long as he asks for it. I wouldnt 'sit him down'.

ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 15:06

He's not there for her to tell him, though. I think if she's not seeing him often, she should be wary about what she says. That's why I thought if she could contact him on neutral ground, when he's at work, that would be better.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 28/01/2012 15:21

Thanks again, everyone, and for sharing your stories, Ploink and HereIGo. I can't call him at work as his work doesn't permit, but I can use the dreaded Facebook to contact him privately (she has, of course, deleted and blocked me). Or I can email him, but I don't know if he shares his passwords with her...

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 15:27

What about his work email?

ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 15:27

OP, am I right in thinking you said there was a long time between her finding out what you'd done and her being offended by it?

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 28/01/2012 15:30

I don't know his work email. It's not an office-based job.

Yes, there was a long time; the offence was committed over three years ago, she found out over a year ago and she told me in December.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 28/01/2012 15:36

What would happen if you sent a message on Facebook, "Hi X, haven't see you and Y for ages. Do you fancy coming round on X for dinner? I'll cook a roast."?

Would he actually say no?