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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If my son were my daughter... LONG!

168 replies

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 16:37

My son is in his midtwenties, and is engaged to and living with his DF. They've been together for about 8 years, and I think she was his first GF, certainly the only one he has ever mentioned or introduced. I have always found it difficult to like her or even get to know her; in all of that time I have only heard her chat freely once, and was astounded at her cattiness and lack of empathy, but I suppose she's young. (I made no comment at the time, nor have I since.) They are due to marry later this year.

She has a difficult family background and this has caused her problems with insecurity and self-esteem, including eating disorders; this was disclosed to me when every invitation to a family event resulted in her being "sick" at the last minute. Despite not having a "chatty" relationship, she has confided in me about some events in her past and ended up sobbing in my arms a couple of times. I have suggested counselling, offering to drive her to appointments, and even sourcing the help available, but she has taken no action so far as I know. I concluded she's a bit of a drama queen (understandably) and left it.

Until they moved out about 15 months ago, they both slept in my home 3 or 4 nights a week, spending the other nights in her home. They would come back from work or college, collect their meals from the kitchen and vanish upstairs to eat and watch TV in his room. They did not participate in family life at all, did no housework and paid no rent, but DH and I left them to it. We were, tbh, relieved when they moved out, as DS had constant clashes (verbal!) with his dad and younger brother and the atmosphere could be uncomfortable at times.

So far, so normal.

However, since then she has decided that she hates me, and is refusing to speak to me. Xmas gifts were pointedly from him, not them. When I asked DS what was going on, he told me his DF feels I betrayed her confidence when I spoke to a friend when seeking help in supporting her with her eating disorder; said friend is a bit of an expert on the topic and the information I disclosed to her has gone no further. So yes, I did breach her confidence but only because I was worried about her, and I have apologised and explained this to her, but my apologies are not accepted. DH is included in the "not speaking to" category by virtue of being DH, and DS2 is also included because of the sibling rivalry going on when they all lived here.

DS feels caught in the middle, but is still speaking to us and even managing to be civil to his DB now they live apart. He's in a difficult situation and none of us wants to make that any worse.

However, DH and I recently bumped into one of DS's good pals from school, and were disturbed to realise that DS hasn't seen him in over a year. Plans had been made a few times, but cancelled at the last minute when DF was "sick." DS2 met another of DS's old friends (DS was best man at his wedding 18 months ago, this couple introduced DS to his DF) and he hasn't seen DS in a long time either. The married couple have often invited DS and DF to social events, but every time DF was "sick" at the last minute. They haven't even seen DS and DF's new home.

There are other examples, he has left one club, drastically reduced his involvement with another, and given up a third pastime he had recently taken up, all since moving in with her. They live in a property belonging to her family, in her village.

So, if my son were my daughter, I'd be sitting her down for a chat about red flags and abusive behaviour. I'd be pointing out that DF is attempting (and achieving) to isolate her from friends and family, and is emotionally manipulative. I'd maybe even say that, damaging as DF's background was, it doesn't excuse such controlling behaviour in the here and now. I might point out that DF cannot be "fixed" by love or responsibility alone.

But I have a horrible feeling that attempting such a conversation would result in a complete break from family. What, if anything, can or should I do? Keep my nose out and not be an "interfering MIL from Hell"? Or attempt the talk and maybe make everything so much worse?

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:43

Just because ed is often about control, Thingumy, but it was just a passing thought.

OP posts:
TheProvincialLady · 27/01/2012 17:43

You can't possibly tell whether or not she has an ED.

This doesn't sound like a mentally healthy woman or a particularly healthy relationship. TBH they both sound immature - and you did nothing to encourage them to grow up by letting them get away with paying no rent, doing no housework and letting them treat your house like a hotel.

All you can do at the moment is work on your relationship with your son. I wouldn't comment at all on any of his choices at present but just be supportive of him and nice to his partner as much as possible. I doubt she is ever going to reciprocate, because she sees you as a threat. Don't allow any more confidences or crying on your shoulder - it's not appropriate in your relationship and she just uses it against you. Keep your distance. Don't try and diagnose her or cure her, just be nice but emotionally unavailable.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:45

Alf, I made the offer to my son, and he accepted. It's a very small do, it's nkt a vast sum, and I'd rather pay and let them get on with the expensive business of setting up home together.

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:46

You make good points, ProvincialLady.

OP posts:
AlfStewart · 27/01/2012 17:48

So you don't feel comfortable with your son getting further entangled with this young woman who you consider unstable and manipulative, but you've offered to pay for them to get married so they can spend more money on joint goods and entangle themselves further? Okaaaay.

FWIW, I think she sounds like a nightmare. But I think you haven't helped.

izzyisin · 27/01/2012 17:50

Eight years together, forthcoming wedding - for which you are paying, and you haven't been invited to meet her dps either by her or by them?

Have you spoken to her dps on the phone at any time?

Thingumy · 27/01/2012 17:51

ALL OF his friends? I read he hasn't seen 2 of his school friends.

With regards to not seeing her family,I don't see this as strange due to this part of the OP 'She has a difficult family background and this has caused her problems with insecurity and self-esteem'. Maybe she has a toxic family and rarely sees them?

'he told me his DF feels I betrayed her confidence ' This reads to me as being the issue.She had insecurity to start with and then has her confidence betrayed again?

Maybe she does need help and counselling but that is up to her to seek out and the OP's son's choice on whether he is happy,.

MrsCampbellBlack · 27/01/2012 17:52

Well I'd be worried too for many reasons but agree with others that you just need to be polite and there for your son in a non-judgemental fashion.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:52

LOL, Alf, I made the offer before she decided not to speak to me, it was partly a way of saying to her that I was happy they were to wed. I certainly wouldn't make the same offer now, for fear I'd be accused of trying to buy her love, or acceptance at least.

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:54

Izzy, I have no communication in any form with her family, and yes, kt would be fair to describe them as fairly toxic, from the way they have treated her. Thingumy, most of his other friends were through activities he has dramatically reduced.

OP posts:
whitsunday · 27/01/2012 17:58

Hmmm, my MIL felt about me a bit like you seem to about your future DIL. DH and I met when I was a teenager and after a traumatic childhood I had ishoos.

But I grew up and out of them, while MIL didn't seem to notice. One Christmas she got drunk and told me she thought I was 'very clever and manipulative', she'd been saying variations on that theme for years but she just went on that evening. After years of letting it slide I just said give it a rest MIL, that was years ago.

She took it on board. I am not her favourite person. She's jealous of me to some extent. But she's a great GM and we share a love of DH.

Play the long game, OP. You don't want to be kept from your GCs.

TooEasilyTempted · 27/01/2012 17:59

I think you should repost this thread as if it was your daughter. You'd get different responses. I see a row of red flags, he is becoming isolated from his friends and family. I think your concerns are perfectly valid. Unfortunately I wouldn't have a clue how you go about getting involved/helping him without opening yourself up to a whole world of shit and possibly making things worse Sad. I guess just keep the lines of communication open and let him know you'll always be there for him.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 17:59

Thanks, whitsunday, so if I keep my head down and my mouth shut, there may be hope for the future?

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 18:00

Ha, TooEasily, I'd be eviscerated when found out! Grin

OP posts:
whitsunday · 27/01/2012 18:03

Oh and our parents didn't meet til about five years into our relationship, when I got pregnant with DS. My parents are alcoholics and my mother has NPD. I couldn't stand the idea of them spreading their poison, especially when MIL seemed anxious to think the worst of me.

whitsunday · 27/01/2012 18:08

IfMy dunno, it helped in my situation but everything's different. But thing is, whether your concerns are right or not, your son doesn't want to hear it. If he was a daughter it'd be the same - if they don't want to hear it they won't.

He loves her, so let him make his own mistakes (if it is one), and come to his own conclusions.

No adult son or daughter would 'choose' their parent over the love of their life and if she is controlling, you're just giving her fuel by voicing your concerns.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 18:11

Thanks again.

Gotta go, family to feed. :)

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 27/01/2012 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pippop1 · 27/01/2012 18:24

I think you should ask her family over (or at least meet up for a meal/walk in the park). It may help you shed some light on things.

I think it would be unwise to not attend the wedding if you can possibly manage it.

In order to get on with DF could you ask her advice about what you should wear to the wedding? Try a few attempts to make friendly approaches to her that don't involve food treating her as a friend rather than your son's fiance?

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 18:29

Your MIL sounds vile, TSC, I hope I don't. :(

Nice idea, pippop, but I don't think it's going to fly. Clothes shopping is an ordeal at the best of times!

OP posts:
Kayano · 27/01/2012 18:33

It's not like she just stopped contact with no info. She told her the reasons for stopping contact.

Having come from a toxic family who caused her confidence and issues with her self esteem she finally confided in op who she then perceived to betray her. Sad

Sad situation all round but not necessarily abusive

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 18:36

Do you think there may be a chance she will accept my apologies, Kayano?

OP posts:
cory · 27/01/2012 19:18

I see red flags for reasons mentioned by Maryz and others.

But even if this was your daughter I don't think you would be able to do more than making it clear that you will always be there for her. You just can't barge in and sort peope's lives out for them. All you can do is wait for them and be there if they ever decide there is something wrong.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 19:22

Thanks Cory. :)

OP posts:
kaluki · 27/01/2012 19:29

Repost this changing your ds to a dd and you will get totally different answers.
She sounds like my SIL. My DB hasn't spoken to my family for years and nobody knows why. One by one she has cut us all out of his life and my mum is devastated.
My mum is a gransnetter (I have banned her from MN in case she recognises me!) and she gets a lot of support there.