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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If my son were my daughter... LONG!

168 replies

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 16:37

My son is in his midtwenties, and is engaged to and living with his DF. They've been together for about 8 years, and I think she was his first GF, certainly the only one he has ever mentioned or introduced. I have always found it difficult to like her or even get to know her; in all of that time I have only heard her chat freely once, and was astounded at her cattiness and lack of empathy, but I suppose she's young. (I made no comment at the time, nor have I since.) They are due to marry later this year.

She has a difficult family background and this has caused her problems with insecurity and self-esteem, including eating disorders; this was disclosed to me when every invitation to a family event resulted in her being "sick" at the last minute. Despite not having a "chatty" relationship, she has confided in me about some events in her past and ended up sobbing in my arms a couple of times. I have suggested counselling, offering to drive her to appointments, and even sourcing the help available, but she has taken no action so far as I know. I concluded she's a bit of a drama queen (understandably) and left it.

Until they moved out about 15 months ago, they both slept in my home 3 or 4 nights a week, spending the other nights in her home. They would come back from work or college, collect their meals from the kitchen and vanish upstairs to eat and watch TV in his room. They did not participate in family life at all, did no housework and paid no rent, but DH and I left them to it. We were, tbh, relieved when they moved out, as DS had constant clashes (verbal!) with his dad and younger brother and the atmosphere could be uncomfortable at times.

So far, so normal.

However, since then she has decided that she hates me, and is refusing to speak to me. Xmas gifts were pointedly from him, not them. When I asked DS what was going on, he told me his DF feels I betrayed her confidence when I spoke to a friend when seeking help in supporting her with her eating disorder; said friend is a bit of an expert on the topic and the information I disclosed to her has gone no further. So yes, I did breach her confidence but only because I was worried about her, and I have apologised and explained this to her, but my apologies are not accepted. DH is included in the "not speaking to" category by virtue of being DH, and DS2 is also included because of the sibling rivalry going on when they all lived here.

DS feels caught in the middle, but is still speaking to us and even managing to be civil to his DB now they live apart. He's in a difficult situation and none of us wants to make that any worse.

However, DH and I recently bumped into one of DS's good pals from school, and were disturbed to realise that DS hasn't seen him in over a year. Plans had been made a few times, but cancelled at the last minute when DF was "sick." DS2 met another of DS's old friends (DS was best man at his wedding 18 months ago, this couple introduced DS to his DF) and he hasn't seen DS in a long time either. The married couple have often invited DS and DF to social events, but every time DF was "sick" at the last minute. They haven't even seen DS and DF's new home.

There are other examples, he has left one club, drastically reduced his involvement with another, and given up a third pastime he had recently taken up, all since moving in with her. They live in a property belonging to her family, in her village.

So, if my son were my daughter, I'd be sitting her down for a chat about red flags and abusive behaviour. I'd be pointing out that DF is attempting (and achieving) to isolate her from friends and family, and is emotionally manipulative. I'd maybe even say that, damaging as DF's background was, it doesn't excuse such controlling behaviour in the here and now. I might point out that DF cannot be "fixed" by love or responsibility alone.

But I have a horrible feeling that attempting such a conversation would result in a complete break from family. What, if anything, can or should I do? Keep my nose out and not be an "interfering MIL from Hell"? Or attempt the talk and maybe make everything so much worse?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/01/2012 19:30

I would try and build bridges with your DIL (to be) - could you send her a heartfelt written apology that regardless of your intentions you shouldn't have overstepped the boundary and broken her trust.

It is all about relationships and even if it doesn't work your son will know that you have tried, if it gets mentioned you can even casually just say, "well I hope in time she gives me a 2nd chance" or something.

I don't think you're wrong to worry but growing up and maturing is hard if you've had a tricky childhood and perhaps she just wants the security of your ds and few friends etc?

Maryz · 27/01/2012 19:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ImperialBlether · 27/01/2012 19:55

OP, there are a million red flags here. I'm so sorry for you - I would hate to be in your position.

It's no good saying it now, but the problem should have been dealt with really early on, when they were locking themselves away. For a young man, the lure of a girlfriend and sex was probably enough for him to agree to that, but it was clearly unhealthy from the start.

I think she has a real nerve, actually. You have tried to act in a motherly fashion. You let her stay in your home, free of charge and without so much as a friendly word, and then you did what you thought was best to help her. She not only abused your hospitality at the time, she allowed you to pay for the wedding and tells you via your son that she hates you. She doesn't hate you enough to take on the wedding bill, does she?

I know what I'd like to think I'd do - as you said - speak to your son seriously, talk to him about the impact on his life, about his loss of friends and that you suspect she is separating him from everything he loves. I can't tell whether it would work - if he appears to be happy, it's unlikely he'd listen. I suppose all you can do is watch, wait and always be there for him. Don't criticise her at all.

I really hope things change for the better soon.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 20:29

Thanks again. Kaluki, I did wonder about trying Gransnet (am actually a gran, by my other son) but I think the advice I'm getting here wouldn't be any different; back off and bide my time. RandomMess, she's actually got worse since I apologised, so I think I'll wait and see if she thaws some rather than approaching her, but if she doesn't I'll give it a go in the run up to the wedding. ImperialBlether, you're right I should have tackled it earlier, I hope others reading this can learn from that at least! And no, she hasn't flung the wedding money back at me, maybe that's a positive thing.

OP posts:
LeBOF · 27/01/2012 20:33

I wouldn't be paying for my son to marry some besom who refused to talk to me. No siree.

kaluki · 27/01/2012 20:33

Well maybe the advice would be the same, but it often helps to just talk to people in the same situations as yourself.
The main advice I would give you is to keep the channels of communication between you and him open. Don't let her cut you out of his life too

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 20:34

Love the straight-talking, LeBOF! Grin Want to tell her for me?

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IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 20:37

Kaluki, I joined GN when it first started, but foolishly did it under a name that would out me in a second. Last time I looked there wasn't a name-change facility, but I suppose I could join with a different email address. And attract the wrath of HQ

OP posts:
Maryz · 27/01/2012 20:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kaluki · 27/01/2012 20:46

My mum did the same thing bless her. I re-registered her under a different name.
If MNHQ read this I had no choice - she was threatening to come to MN and it really isn't a place you'd want to bring your mumShock

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 20:49

I'll maybe give it a go, if I feel the need to talk it over. Been good to get some of it out here, thanks again everyone.

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 20:50

LOL @ kaluki's mum! Don't think mine would be right comfortable here...

OP posts:
misty0 · 27/01/2012 21:01

OP - i'm with LeBOF i'm afraid. I wouldnt be paying for this wedding if i were you.

Its been said and said already - but these young people are adults.

I think you must remain supportive and 'neutral', but you are allowed to show your own feelings and if she wasnt even speaking to me i'd be withdrawing my cash offer. Let them save up.

I'd agree that letting them treat your home as a free house didnt help. Perhaps its time to treat them like adults with less of the kid gloves treatment? It's not a case of making him choose between you and her. I know you love your son, but he's a man now. He knows you'll always be there for him, but this is his life and he must make his own mistakes.

Good luck with this, i hope she comes to her senses.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 21:05

I've given them the money already, don't think asking for it back would make things better! Grin But yes to your other points.

OP posts:
Snowbeetle · 27/01/2012 21:09

Thinking about it, I had an emotionally difficult relationship once and it was my Dad coolly mentioning it was emotional blackmail that dp was doing which made me see the wood from the trees. But he was not trying to tell me what to do at the time. fwiw. :)
I exited the relationship less than a week later, then met my dh. Grin

misty0 · 27/01/2012 21:11

Ah. That's a done deal then. Could you ask your son in a lighthearted manner whether you are still getting an invite?

Please, please dont add "after all, i am paying for it!" if you can help it.

(Just a personal thing that Grin I can picture my mum saying it to me and it would grate on me)

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 21:17

I am expecting an invite in due course; I hope my son would put his foot down at that point. If not, well, that would tell a tale in itself. And I won't even hint about the money, and will only mention here that I won't be paying for a surprise fireworks display after all.

OP posts:
IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 21:19

Or maybe I should still lay on the fireworks? Or could that be seen as rubbing her nose in it or something?

OP posts:
misty0 · 27/01/2012 21:23

Well - maybe you could wait till nearer the time to decide about that. When is the wedding?

You may have made up with her by then ... or not ... if not, i wouldnt lay out any more £.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 21:26

It's quite near to the end of the year, don't want to be too specific! But loads of time for things to change.

Or for her to consolidate her hatred. :(

Will hold off on the fireworks for now.

OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 27/01/2012 21:33

I'd be worried if he were my DS. I don't know how I'd handle it but I don't think the concern should be less just because in this instance the possible 'victim' is male. It does happen this way round, although much less often.

misty0 · 27/01/2012 21:35

Oh that is plenty of time then. For the fireworks to be arranged AND the relationship to change.

Just remember it takes alot of effort to keep on hating, especially if the reasons are flimsy in the first place. And if you are in no way fueling that fire i can see it dying out.

Just ensure your son is clear on the fact that you still want a nice relationship with his DF, and perhaps in time the message will get through.

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 21:41

It does take effort, but seems to be her primary hobby. She only told me (via DS) how upset she was about the beach of confidence after about 15 months of "nursing her wrath to keep it warm" culminating in the "I'm not speaking to you", so the idea is fairly firmly entrenched.

I didn't even know she knew about it till then.

OP posts:
izzyisin · 27/01/2012 22:02

Any chance you can organise an early stag do for him, say next month, and get a group of his mates to kidnap surprise him and cart him off to the red light district Amsterdam or sin city Las Vegas for a long weekend or a fortnight? [evil emoticon]

IfMySonWereMyDaughter · 27/01/2012 22:09

Ooh, tempting, izzy, very tempting! Grin

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