first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

I rarely post on Relationship threads as I never have anything I think I can add but I can't not post on this one.

I agree with everyone else. He must go. And as SGB says the only, only possible excuse for such violence if he's never been abusive, threatening, controlling or violent before is a significant brain disorder or injury such as a tumour. But even if that is the case he has to go as neither your or your children are safe around him. Only something like that could excuse the utter callousness of him telling you to stop pretending and then going to work the next day as if nothing had happened.

Your daughter is 4. She will never, ever forget what she witnessed. If you let him back how on earth will he react to a traumatised 4 year old who is suddenly scared of her DF, who perhaps doesn't want to play lego or cuddle him because she can't forget what she saw him do to her Mummy? How would he cope with that? Take it out on her perhaps?

He's not a good man. He's not a caring father. Caring fathers do not punch the mother of their children unconscious in front of their children because she started cooking tea a bit too soon and let a distressed 4 year old cradle her unconscious mother whilst being terrified that she's dead. Ever.

You need help OP. If you're not prepared to seek it for yourself then please do it for your DC. Or they might not forgive you in the longer term.

Please, please, keep him out until he has done the counseling, anger management and whatever else.

He HIT you IN THE FACE. You were UNCONSCIOUS. Your children WITNESSED it. Your 4 year old daughter thought you were DEAD.

Sorry to shout.

We will all be here for you, whatever you decide to do in the end. Rest assured that he will do it again though, and worse. And again.

If you check on your regional police authority's website you will no doubt see a page of propoganda information which states that they take domestic violence seriously.

If you are saying that he punched you in the face with such force that you were rendered unconscious and that the police subsequently arrested him, summarily cautioned him, and released him to return to your home that same evening, I am OUTRAGED.

Did you make a statement to the police? Regardless, the police should have referred you to a domestic violence counsellor and should have also explained that they are obliged to send a report of the incident to your local authority's childrens' services department - whether or not you are contacted by a social worker remains to be seen.

The answer to your question 'Do I let him stay in the house now' is an overwhelming NO and if he has, indeed, been given a police caution for this incident, you will have no difficulty in obtaining non-molestation and occupation Orders which will give you the legal right remain in the marital home and require him to stay away.

To this end I would suggest that you visit www.womensaid.org.uk and call the Helpline. As the 24/7 number can oversubscribed, I would suggest that you search 'womensaid' following by your county or nearest town and make contact with your local branch who will give you advice and support and put you in contact with a solicitor who will apply for the necessary Orders on your behalf.

You have described him he 'a good man who needs to manage his anger'. I would describe him as a man who sees no reason to manage his anger as he has become accustomed to taking it out on you.

It may be that if he attends an anger management or similar programme he will see the error of his ways and learn how to control/handle his anger. However, he should not live in the marital home again until such time as he as completed an intensive course and demonstrated over a further period of time that he has learned from it.

As others have stated, your little dd will have been traumatised by what she saw her father do to you and by her fears that you were dead. Is she at pre-school? If so, I would suggest that you make the school aware of what has happened as she may become withdrawn, or may act out, or enact the violence she has witnessed against other children. Ask her school or your GP to refer her, and any of your other dc who witnessed this incident, for therapy which may take the form of play therapy that will minimise the psychological damage that has been caused them - she/they will enjoy the sessions.

For the sake of your dc, if not yourself, please do not be tempted to let this violent man persuade you that he's learned his lesson, will never do it again, let's put this behind us, make a fresh start, etc etc, because, frankly my dear, he'll be telling you a load of asolute bollocks simply so that he is not unduly inconvenienced.

Please also be aware that you should not enter into joint counselling with an abuser.

I hope you will act on the advice above without delay because his next punch could kill or permanently incapacitate you - and I suspect that you know very well that there will be another punch or more in the not too distant future.

I further suggest that, should you choose not to act on the advice given to get him out of your home, you consult a solicitor with a view to making a Will and formally setting out your wishes as to who should have care of your dc in the event that you are severely injured or murdered by your husband.

He hit you, kocking you out, in front of your 4 kids, all because you started to cook tea when he had asked you not to??? Nor did he show any remorse, instead acusing you of pretending??
Sorry but he is crazy, and I fear for you if you so much as put a foot wrong in the future, even if you do say it is out of character for him. If he flipped that switch once so easily, he will again.
If you were reading this thread but it was by another MNer, and I mean every little detail, would you not be telling the OP to get rid, at least until he has seaked help.
PLEASE put you and your kids safety first rather tham your heart.

*knocking

Just a quick post cos got to run....
You say he is going to get help.....what help?? There is currently NO known way to cure men who are violent. My stbx went in the relate perpetrators course which is the best out there. It made him worse because it just taught him to abuse without shouting so he looked even more reasonable.
Relate themselves know this course is ineffective. They claim 30% change. But will not clarify what 'change' means.
What I'm saying is even if he gets help its unlikely he will be able to cure his abusive ways.

Oh, no, no, no. You are missing the point here - your 4 year old thought you were dead, she will remember that and if you take him back she will believe that it is ok for a man to knock you unconscious.

I know this is an awful situation for you, it must be horrendous facing up to what has happened but playing with the kids, building lego towers etc do not make up for what happened.

You should press charges and yes, you should throw away your marriage. Because you deserve better than this.

Please listen to the people who have been through this, they know what to do.

OP please, please listen to everyone on here. They speak from experience.
I know it's heartbreaking to feel that you have wasted 10 years of your life on your marriage, and I understand that you don't want to "throw it away" but why waste another 10 (and possibly more) and risk your confidence, self respect, sanity, safety and life in the process?

I know you are confused, on the one hand he seems so nice, but he has shown himself to be violent and dangerous.

This book was recommended to me on here and it has really helped me to understand the reality of my marriage and make sense of things. It might help you as well.
"Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft

Please don't underestimate the serious consequences of another 10 seconds of madness. For you and your children.

Good luck

Frankly if any of the men I know heard this had happened to you they would be disgusted, and that even includes my XP who was not averse to pushing me about and pretty controlling himself. This is off the scale, and you need to get rid of any silly and childish notion that you still have a marriage worth fighting for, and get this violent man away from you and the children as soon as you possibly can. Just go and see a solicitor, explain what happened, and get some kind of injuction if you have to. Today.

ah well, another daft women who prefers to protect her violent husband than protect her babies.

she wont be the first. Probably the kids will get involved in similar violent relationships or become the abusers themselves, cos thats how it works :(

oh well OP you know best

"the incident occurred because I began cooking the dinner even though he had asked me not to "

wow.

he has to go and get [medical] help for his issues - and he cannot come back in your home right now as he is a danger to you and your DC. serious psychiatric evaluationa t least. he is either seriiously psychotic (mad) or bad very bad...normal people just dont punch their wife unconscious. think again of your poor DD....

think long and hard about other such incidents where he has got angry over things you or Dc do. if really was one off then he has brain tumour or something... but think a bit more, what other incidents have there been?

you and your children need support from SS - you jsut cannot risk this happening again. sorry.

Should I throw our 10 year marriage away for 10 seconds of madness

Yes.

Your 4 year old thought you were dead

If you can't justify ending the relationship for that, end it because you are setting her up for a life of abuse herself.

How will she be able to walk away from a 'handy' boyfriend?

especailly as he has promised to seek help and has honoured my plea not to return home this week. Oh and the incident occurred because I began cooking the dinner even though he had asked me not to - so yes controlling behaviour but now we've identified what it is counselling may help?

this statement brings up so many red warning signs for me.
You disobeyed him and this meant he punched you and knocked you out. He believes that you should do as you are told at all times or face a physical and illegal punishment?

But look, you have accepted him back. No scaremongering by a bunch of faceless nobodies on an internet forum is going to change that.

All i would say is that if he accesses ANY Dv related anger management programme they will only work with him whilst he is not living with you. The "treatment" causes a lot of stress and unease and can actually trigger violent episodes so it is unsafe to work with someone whilst they are living with someone that has formerly been an antagonist/victim.

I really would urge you to take some time this week to look into the womens aid website. There is a page there thats lists some of the warning signs of an abusive relationship. Just read through them and see how many you identify with. if you notice a couple then it is warranting of a chat, but i think you will recognise the majority. That requires serious consideration.

What your daughter witnessed WILL have been a traumatic experience for her. I wouldn't be surprised if she shies away from her father for a little while.

Could I suggest that, even if you intend to take him back and move on that you make yourself known to a DV outreach programme. They will be able to speak with you and help you with dealing with his controlling behaviours. They may also be able to get your children access to support groups to help them deal with what they have seen.

lease don't play down the effect this incident WILL have had on them.

I hope with all my being that you beat the statistics and that your husband really is the very first man i have ever heard of to knock a woman out but never raise a finger again. Please stay safe.

I can understand that you don't want to feel like you are throwing away your marriage and are looking back at the marriage you had a few days ago and want it back, I an understand it hurts like hell and you feel totally split, that you can't give up on it and the total unrealness of the situation you now find yourself in.

It hurts, but he did this, he threw it away, you cannot stitch up the relationship and carry on, you didn't cause this and you need to be strong for your children.

I keep thinking about if I was in your situation, if my DH did this to me, I'd be fine eventually but the effect on my DD? I've had years of counselling for things that happened in the past, I would NEVER put my child through this. There would never be any trust there again with him if he did it in front of my children.

My mum, having endured years of this (and it all started with the first punch) is a shadow of herself now (20 years down the line) she keeps herself to herself, avoids confrontation, avoids making lasting relationships, a broken woman who feels guilty every day that she didn't leave him sooner.

You did not cause this but you have to deal with the fallout, how is up to you but I couldn't stay.

and do re read Posies posts.

Is that what you want your daughter to be going through in 20 years time?

Jesus Christ.

I cannot believe that you can even consider just carrying on as if this never happened, perhaps with some counselling. Why haven't you pressed charges (you say the Police didn't, but that doesn't mean you can't)?

He's not a good man. He knocked you unconscious in front of your four year old daughter. She thought you were dead and you think he's a good man because he plays Lego with your sons and cooks occasionally? Do you not think that almost every woman on here who has been abused has watched the man who raped her last night play nicely with their children sometimes, or eaten a meal cooked by the person who has given them yet another black eye?

What will it take for you to see that he isn't a good, caring man? Your daughter to be knocked out or killed with a punch in his next '10 seconds of madness'? Well, that's only 20 seconds of madness in 10 years, so on balance I suppose that would still make him a good man.

What about if 6 months after that he throws one of your sons across the room into the wall when he has another '10 seconds of madness'? That's still only 30 seconds of madness in 10 years, so on balance he'd still be a good caring husband.

These things are never a one-off. He's learned this time that the police haven't charged him, you might make him promise to undertake counselling and he comes back home after a week away. Only next time, he'll be a bit wiser and find a way to stop you going to the hospital, so they can't call the Police or SS. This is the thin end of the wedge. And it saddens and angers me that you seem to think your and your children deserve this, and that you can put a plaster on it and make it all go away - and you can't.

:(

I have just taken this from the new government consultation paper on Domestic violence. Please read it and take a look at those figures.

Everybody should feel safe within their own home. But for too many women in the UK, their home is actually one of the most dangerous places to be. On average two women are murdered by their current or former partner each week1. Each year around 1.2 million women suffer domestic violence. Around one in four women will experience domestic abuse in their lifetime2, often accompanied by years of psychological abuse. This just should not happen in modern day Britain. And that is why I am so determined to end domestic violence.
As we set out in our strategic vision ? ?Call to End Violence Against Women and Girls? ? prevention will be key to achieving that ambition. Effective prevention can only happen when it involves all agencies, working together to common goals and a common understanding. That is why we are now consulting on the definition of domestic violence that all agencies and all parts of government should use.
There are a number of aspects to the definition that this consultation considers.
The British Crime Survey has found that women between 16-24 years of age and men aged 16-34 were more likely to suffer relationship abuse than any other age range3. That is why this consultation seeks views on whether the definition of domestic violence should include younger victims, including boys.
We also know that abuse may often include coercive control. Coercive control is a complex pattern of abuse using power and psychological control over another ? financial control, verbal abuse, forced social isolation. These incidents may vary in seriousness and may be repeated over time. However, coercive control is not currently reflected in the government?s definition of domestic violence. We would welcome views on whether it should be.
Domestic violence ruins lives. Sadly, in some cases
it ends them. This consultation will help us achieve
the right agreed definition of domestic violence so that all agencies can work together to defeat this dreadful crime.

My mum didn't want to throw away 10years of marriage when my dad hit her the first time. He didn't mean it and it wouldn't happen again. Oh, until he did it again. It didn't start off as every week, there were often months between him hitting her. In the months after he first hit she did everything she could to please him so that he had no reason to hit her. How fucked up is that?
But he did hit her again. Over a period of 18 years it escalated till he poured a kettle of boiling hot water over her. Nobody outside our family would have believed he was capable of such a thing. He was a business owner, sporty, adored his DC, nice house, nice car, all the usual bollocks. He got away with it because he could. Back then the police didn't take it as seriously as they do now.
Now my dad is living the life of riley. Where is my mum? She killed herself to get away from him. I love her, I miss her, she has left us with a lifetime of fuck ups.
If your DH was distraught at how he had behaved, looked for help himself, offered to move out whilst he got that help, then maybe, just maybe, there was a small hope.
But his response tells you all you need to know.
He may never hit you again, but that will be because you adjust your behaviour to avoid it, the threat will always be there. Don't do it. Don't do it to yourself, and don't do it to your DC.

Oh Stick :(

Some of you are such brave women, and thank you for sharing your experiences in order to try and help. It must take a lot of guts.

Sorry, yes should have included a link shouldn't i? Thanks Stewiegriffinsmum.

Stickaforkinme -

Chicken I'm certainly not brave. Most of my childhood was spent hiding in my bedroom wondering when my dad would hit mum again. Then when they decided to "try again" I was expected to be normal around him. My dad wasn't the wife beater that you see in the soaps, he could go 6 months without laying a finger on her, but those were just as bad with his emotional abuse. I swear to god I could sometimes feel my mums relief when he did hit her as that meant he would again start at the bottom and slowly, over months, abuse her mentally until he lost it so much that he would hit her again. But she knew that once he had hit her she had a few weeks of respite, a few weeks of him being nice to her, then the taunting would start and it would again work up to result in him hitting her.

I don't think the attacks from some posters are helpful. Yes it's awful looking in and you do think of the dc's first.

But from her last post. I don't think this is some ill man. I think this man has always been a controlling and abusive fuckwit. She just can't see it, she sees the lovely man as she is too far down that path.

People are even saying on this thread how they were beat and beat before leaving. Sad fact is, people rarely leave on the first instance. Not if they've been ground down over 10 years.

No doubt he could have killed her, but she can't see that. She sees this wonderful man and dad

Attacking her for staying will just drive her back to this wonderful man that she sees, instead of staying here for what is really good advice on the whole. As she is going to need it soon, either because of him. Or because social services are causing her to rethink.

I too am appalled that the police issued only a caution after an assault so serious it knocked the OP out. My husband got a caution for a nasty struggle between us which left me with 2 small bruises on my arm - I'm not at all saying this was wrong but where on earth is the consistency??