first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

yes, echoing all the 'well done' comments, J

Take the next step for your own wellbeing, and don't call him or chat to him, giving him a 'chance' to show his feelings - I know there's part of you looking for a scrap of hope when you do that, but what you're hoping for - a loving husband again - simply doesn't exist, and as the phonecall shows you, it's just another chance for him to hurt you and display his contempt.

No contact. If he wants to talk to you about seeing the children, he can email you. Written contact only, then you have a record.

I think it is extremely likely he will try to punish you financially, for example by giving you a pittance to live on instead of 25% of his income - so make sure your solicitor is good and switched on about this. Can you access any of his payslips or bank statements? It sounds like an awful thing to do, I know, but I honestly do think that you need to become a lioness here, to ensure your children are provided for and that he can't punish you with money now you're out of the reach of his fists.

Also, however awful something like photocopying the contents of his desk might seem, remember it's not as awful as knocking someone unconscious and then telling them to get up and stop making a fuss. He's the sociopath in this scenario, you are the victim who's becoming a brave survivor.

So glad you posted again, DH and I both read your thread back in January and both worried about you, off and on. It sounds like you're doing wonderfully.

Just had an awful conversation with H. He called to ask if he could take the older 2 children for Saturday night. I said I would have to ask the children - not sure whether I should let him or not though? He also wants me to attend couples counselling. I said I would go to one session. After hanging up I realised that why should I be going to couples counselling when he has not been on his knees about what he has done. I called him back and said that I am not willing to go to couples counselling with him because the problem first and foremost lies with him. I hung up. I don't know what to do now just feel a mess and keep bursting into tears (even in front of the children) can't seem to keep it together.

Don't go to counselling with him! He will use it to get the counselor onside and continue the abuse. Well done you for calling him back - most counselors worth their salt won't take both at once when one has been abusive.

You poor poor thing, having to deal with all this. You are doing BRILLIANTLY - and what's more, it's ok to collapse into tears. It's okay to feel horrible. It might make your children realise it's alright for them to cry and be sad too. If they express distress at your tears, just give them a cuddle and say "this is a sad time for Mummy but it won't be forever, things will get more cheerful soon."

you are not going to damage your children by crying where they can see you, is what I'm getting at.

Also, things like this is why he shouldn't be allowed to just call you. Written contact. No chopping and changing contact with children, he does it just to upset you.

I don't know how you feel about it but my gut says no overnights. Not where there has been physical abuse. Not yet.

Well done for owning your change of mind, and so quickly too! You are doing really, really well.

The tears and emotional roller-coaster are totally OK - this is so new for you still. Don't beat yourself up about it: it's normal.

Agree with blackcurrants about cutting contact. You need the space to regroup.

EVERYTHING that blackcurrants ^^^ said

(I wish I were blackcurrants - she always says exactly what I'm trying to say, but better!)

Here here to no couples counselling, no chopping and changing contact with children, and no feeling bad about being upset - you are being absolutely incredible and so very strong. Well done for calling him back and standing your ground.

J4J I have been following your thread, but haven't posted before now.

You are being so amazingly strong, and brave. I really am in awe of the guts you are showing in refusing to let your husband get away with his appalling actions.

Well done for calling him back, and refusing to the couples counselling. Such counselling does not work anyway when DV is present. As other posters have said, your H will use it as a tool to try and get you to take blame for his hideous behavior.

Personally, I would say no to him taking the children overnight. He is trying to chop and change your arrangements to suit himself, and to muddle you. Stand firm, and do not allow him to do so.

Nobody would blame you for bursting into tears 100 times a day. Your children seeing you cry will not damage them. It is healthy for them to see real human emotions. Tell them that you are crying because things at the moment are making you sad, but that you won't always be sad and that you love them very much. That's all they need to hear.

Stay strong, and keep fighting. You are 100% doing the right thing. You are an amazing woman, and your DCs are so lucky to have such a brave mother. You should be so proud of yourself. You are an inspiration!

you are right to say no to couple counselling.
individual counselling yes.

and no to overnights with the DC.
how old are they?
they saw everyhing right?

let them have a chance to give their views on contact

at the moment it is supervised day time contact right? with his mother?
is his mother going to stay overnight?

where is he staying?

i would hold off overnights for now.

if you unsure about sending them then dont.

this is not a "normal" sepration because he has taken off with another woman or some such; he hit you
Dc have witnessed phsyicalyl violence and been subject to rough handling.
can you trust him not to be emotionaly or physically harming to them? if the answer is "dont know" then dont do it. you cannot risk it. (if DC much odler eg 15, 16 then sure let them decide. i they younger then no. )

you dont have to make that decision - let it go to court and get CAFCASS involved.

court provides security and third parties where there has been dv.

No overnights. Don't even ask the kids, I don't think it would be fair to expect them to make that decision atm.

No couples counselling. You are not a couple anyway, so why allow,him to pretend that you are or might be? It will just encourage him to believe that he can skate away from the truth. He hasn't even apologised. Has he asked how your face is? Has he asked if it still hurts? Has he ever? No, because if he did he would have to accept that he hit you and knocked you out, so he doesn't ask. Also, because he doesn't care; after all, he still thinks you deserved it.

Stick with what you know is right, and if you're sure then say no, you can change your mind later if you want to.

Court, solicitor, women's aid, police. Use all the agencies for help, advice, that you can. He's a nasty piece of work and you need armour.

Should you be insisting on supervised contact initially anyway, as he's been violent?

I've just spoken to a fab woman from woman's aid - really informative and a great listener. It is true H has never asked me how my face feels and whether it still hurts. How can he be so cold? I can't get my head around this lack of care. The DCs are 6,4,3 and 15 months and they were all present when it happened. He wanted to take the older 2 kids to my parents (where he is staying at the moment - as my dad can see in my H a younger version of himself - great!). Woman's aid lady made a good suggestion that I say that would it not be better to see all the children and how would the 3 year old feel if the older 2 are going to spend the night with their dad.

Well done talking to Women's Aid, J, I hope they continue to help you. They really do know their stuff.

I find the fact that he's at your parents' house rather worrying. By being there he is cutting off their support to you, claiming it all to himself. It's not... great, is it?

but then I look at your OP and think: none of this is great apart from you. And you really, really are being great.

Don't let your DH divide and conquer, either between your DCs or between you and your parents.

He is staying with your parents?

Glad that you spoke to WA and found them supportive. There's so much support out there, once you start reaching out for it - friends, GP, counsellor, police, etc.

He's still with your parents????? I thought that was purely temporary, until the first w/e or something. That makes everything even more shocking. He is still punishing you. How could he be such a shit as to cut you off from your family like that? Your dad sounds like a lost cause, but has your mum said anything about this? Could she get away from the pair of them and come and stay with you? How do you get on with her?

Well done for phoning WA, by the way. Glad they were good.

Keep your chin up, as it were, you're fabulous and your kids are so lucky to have you.

They are far too young to make decisions about staying over .
Just say no.

If cafcass a psychiatrist someone a judge decree he should have them overnight then so be it but don't make it your decision. This is the 6 year old who threatened to hit you like daddy right ? So you cannot let him be around him.

He is still with your parents?!
Unbelievable. How inappropriate!

This guy is a total arse.

Oh God yes - to add. I think you are doing brilliantly OP!
I remember when this thread started. I was sure you were going to have him back in days.
Totally impressed at you - he is a wrong 'un - and as time goes on you'll seeing it more clearly.
He is vile to stay with your parents. How intrusive and controlling of him.

I can't believe he's still staying with your parents.
Your dad sees himself in him???? The man punched his daughter unconscious and he can relate to that?????

Have you spoken to your parents about this? If I were you I don't know if I'd be able to handle the thought of my mother and father sheltering and looking after the bastard who attacked me.

I am really, really hoping your mum is being coerced into it.

Only in one way, that is . Phrased it badly, sorry.

Have you asked your dad when exactly he punched your mum in the face so hard she was rendered unconscious, and how many times he did it - just so you know, as he sees h as a younger version of himself, like? You could tell him it would help you make a decision. Unfortunately, you have two male tossers in your life.

Fortunately, you are changing things so that your sons won't continue the pattern.

Before all this i was a lot closer to my father than my mother. My mum has terrible moods and I never know how she genuinely feels about things. I spent a lot of my childhood wondering when the next huge row would come and when I'd have to look after things as mum would lock herself in the bathroom for weeks (not days!). I spoke to her yesterday and all i got was - 'oh I know how you are feeling as it happened to me' i obviously said 'when I never knew you were punched in the face'. SHe wasn't but she said a lot went on behind closed doors. My dad has never been physically abusive to my mother but sadly my mother is very macheavelean (sorry abt spelling!) and narcassitic and i vowed I would never be like her and instead be open and honest. My dad has been so patient over the years and down to earth. My mum has hardly spent any time with her grandchildren whereas my dad comes down to see them much more. I don't like the fact that H is staying with my parents at all but i know why H is doing it - purely because it is close to his work, it is convenient for him and therefore suits his self-centredness. It is all about what is best for him - thanks for pointing this out Lundy!! H doesn't even like my mum and often used to make rude comments about her - even when she was around. Now he's happy to stay there! Shocked that my parents are still letting him though but they are grown ups and who am I to tell them what to do? Mother in law texted late last night and wants to come and help with school pick up and bring tea. I have agreed but will not be speaking about her son with her at all. Hope this is the best approach?

What was your relationship with your mother-in-law like before your h knocked you out, what was her reaction when she initially discovered what her son had done to you, and how has she been towards you since the incident?

Do your dc like her/enjoy seeing her - is she a 'hands-on granny' in a way that it seems your mother will never be?

it is all rather messy - so many differne threads..... i do think talking with a good family therapist would help you sort out a strategy and decide how to move forward if h continues to live with your parents.

also to be clear on the boundaries you set with MIL. if she hands on etc and Dc like her and she wont go on about your h - well maybe good.

This may be hard to hear, J4J, but I think you can write off your parents as a source of support to you at this time.

ps altho my parents were not directly involved like yours they were a bit "oh poor exP" when he got violent... he was calling them for moral support...ugh.

Blimey - talk about confused relationships - he's staying with your parents and his parents are picking up your kids?

It sounds harsh but if I were you I would not accept any help from any of them. Get a childminder to pick them up if you need help. For now. It's all too recent and it sounds to me as though your lovely manipulative ex is trying to worm his way in very fast.

Don't depend on any of them until you know deep down and for sure that they have their grandchildrens best interests at heart. At the moment they have not - dcs will be confused enough without having two-face gobshite going on. Sorry run out of polite words!