first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

with regard to the DV advisor - the police dont allocate a DV advisor to everyone who has been affected by DV -and as far as the police are aware this is an isolated incident and one which J herself did not report - with limited resources not everyone gets an advisor especially if they have never come to police attention before.

a risk assessment would have been done by the police and i know in my force area the victim is followed up by the DV unit but not everyone gets a visit - it could just be a phone call or a letter.

womens aid are the people to talk to about more in depth support after one incident i would say.

i agree with everyone regarding Js husband and his choice of "treatment". I very much hope J will stay strong and keep the resolve she has so far shown.

Is it the DASH risk assessment thing that helps allocate resources Vicar?

J did you get asked a ton of questions about whether he hurts pets and stuff like that?

I only had one incident of violence, and nowhere near as bad as the OP!

H went to GP who referred him to a psychiatrist under his Bupa cover. Psychiatrist assessed him and will now decide what treatment he needs - whether it be counselling or Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (I had to google this as never heard of it before) or something else. He will know in the next couple of days. Psychiatrist also said that we need a 'cooling off period' HOORAY - time apart has been sanctioned by a 'logical' person. H has listened and agreed good idea. He is now agreeing to my friend driving the family car once she has sorted the insurance. She is coming Saturday to drive us on the Sunday.

One has to wonder what h might have told the gp and psychiatrist and what the diagnosis is -C b t for "stress" and " anxiety " or ?

No matter j as You say the psychiatrist sanctions time apart. So go With that and have a peaceful holiday With your dc and friend

I have been reading 'Why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft - recommended to me by one of you on mumsnet (thank you) - it is very enlightening but also very worrying as his behaviour is not about emotional responses (CBT) but about his values and beliefs. I am beginning to think that I do need to go for the occupational order etc. As one of you said maybe if he losses everything he might if he want to change. Can't see how he can any other way...

I find it worrying that he will listen to the psychiatrist as a "logical person", but not to you.
Your right you need to protect yourself as much as you can with occupation orders, etc. However you also need to understand that he may only be listening to other people because he thinks that you will be softer on him and he will ultimately get his own way. I wouldn't be surprised that he changes his mind about the car at the last minute, can I suggest that you get him to provide copies of the updated insurance well in advance of your trip?

I think that's right, J - I think you're starting to see him more clearly.
CBT won't help him because he doesn't abuse you because 'he can't help it.'

He punched you because he wanted to, and because he thought he could get away with it.

Don't let him get away with it. He still wants to. He will still do it again.

He hasn't changed. Nothing less than years apart and years of therapy and (this is the big one) him wanting to change will work.

Right now he doesn't want to change. Right now he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Hence the flailing around for an excuse, a reason why it wasn't such a bad thing. I'm sure he's mentioned stress or anger or anxiety or depression or some other heightened emotional state. Some other thing that seems external and solvable. But that's not what made him knock you out and almost kill you, I'm afraid, J, awful as it is to realise. He did it because he wanted to, and he thinks he should be able to. And he still thinks like that.

Bobyan I noticed that too and I know exactly what J means. Her H often regards her ideas as illogical. Her approach to parenting, her interest in alternative therapies.... he thinks much of it ridiculous. And he doesn't just disagree, he mocks and ridicules.

keep reading lundy!

website articles too here

eg risks of future harm - etc

www.lundybancroft.com/?page_id=142

read www.lundybancroft.com/?page_id=254
Checklist for Assessing Change in Men Who Abuse Women
Stopping excuses
Stopping all blaming of her
Making amends
Accepting responsibility (recognizing that abuse is a choice)
Identifying patterns of controlling behavior, admitting their wrongness
Identifying the attitudes that drive his abuse
Accepting that overcoming abusiveness will be a decades-long process, not declaring himself cured
etc

this wasnt just one single punch was it - it is part of a whole story.... allow time to read and understand.

"It's My Life Now: Starting Over After an Abusive Relationship or Domestic Violence [Paperback]
Meg Kennedy Dugan (Author)
Roger R. Hock (Author)
is good too - less weighty than lundy and has checklists and tips in it on moving forward and keeping safe

J it is good to hear you really questioning him.

I believe you are right to get an occupation order arranged and would do it asap. His actions following all of this are very telling, a psychiatrist being a 'logical' person sounds strange, are you not logical in his eyes?
I agree with Bobyan, ask for a copy of the updated insurance, or does your friend who will be driving you have insurance that would cover them driving another car?
CBT is of no use in this situation at all......
In your shoes I would be getting an occupation order in place, it will give you some peace of mind and will show him that you will not be treated in this way.

Also check this: www.escapeabuse.com/?p=110

Definitely don't go back too soon.

Ex is capable of appearing "normal" over periods of a couple of months, particularly because he is away.
I had given him an experimental period of 6 months (while separated) before officially asking for a divorce and he gave me enough reasons to finish it off for good several times.

J4J, I hope things are going nicely for you and you have a really peaceful and fun half term.

I hope some of you are still reading this...still desperatly need support. I had a great time in Devon and it was good to get away. My eldest son had one horrid outburst when he wasn't getting his own way re money he suddenly turned around and said 'If you don't give it to me now (money) I'm going to give you another big bruise on your face and a black eye like Daddy did'. Tears sprang to my eyes and I immediatly told him that he should not threaten me. With the benefit of hindsight I don't think I handled this well as i didn't feel threatened by him. Clearly he was feeling extremely angry and did not know how to handle it. I wonder if there is anyone out there who knows the best way to talk to children about this stuff. H came today with his mum for a couple of hours in the afternoon. He left as he said he would at tea time. I could hardly look at him and just feel angry and resentful. At one point he asked for a copy of the pic of the 4 kids on the wall that I had done professionally and he had scoffed at and said he did not like professional photos. I told him as much and he said that he had meant he didn't like the professional school photos. I am not going to be made to feel guilty that he is not seeing the kids that much which is what it felt like he was doing. Afterall he just gets the best bits - to take them to a cafe for an hour or two at a time that suits him. I'm doing the rest. It hurts. He just seems so arrogant. I am going to see the solicitor tomorrow for an occupational order. I need to see her in person as I need to sign my statement. I don't feel i have any choice anymore. I am feeling so low and unhappy.

It is a difficult and unhappy time to go through, J.

But you will get through it.

You asked for advice on helping/parenting children affected by abuse. Lundy has written a book on that too.

It is so terrible, and terribly predictable, that your children's behaviour is being affected this way by witnessing abuse. I think you did do the right thing to point out to him that he is not to use threats, because that's exactly what he did. You did well.

Good luck at the solicitors. You are doing the right thing there too.

your son is simply copying his father's behavior and this tells you more than anything that leaving him is the right thing.

just keep saying to your dc that this is now correct behavior
that now there is no more aggression and violence in your house.

that if he wants something he must do xxx or yyyyy (maybe earn the money thru chores?)

keep up the good work..

J4J was hoping you'd come back on, have been thinking about you a lot.

So sorry to hear about what your son said, but I agree with the others that it was unfortunately inevitable that the violence your DCs witnessed would impact them negatively. I also agree that you handled it completely the right way.

The last thing you want to be doing is placating your son when he threatens you, as that's simply mimicking what he's already seen in the relationship between you and your H, and it just reinforces it.

Your DC need to know unequivocally that there is no room for violence and threats in your household any longer, and just keep talking to them and encouraging them to speak about what's worrying them.

I also agree with ceslavie - if there ever was a message to you that you cannot be in a relationship with your H any longer, then your DS's behaviour should be it. If this is the impact just one (admittedly very serious) incident of DV can have, imagine what it could do to him if he were to be exposed to this over a number of years.

And whilst your H remains "arrogant" as you say, there is unfortunately no room even to think about reconciliation or a future with him, so your visit to the solicitor and the occupation order is absolutely the right thing to do.

I know this is all so very hard, but your feelings of anger/resentment/being low are all COMPLETELY NORMAL. You have had a helluva shock, but please know that we all think you are totally amazing and incredibly strong . Your children are so very lucky to have you.

Hi J, good to hear from you, had been wondering how you got on on holiday, pleased it went well.

Nothing to add to what others have said about the incident with your son, but how horrible for you and for him too as his boundaries are obviously skewed after watching what his father did.
The occupational order is the right way to go and hopefully you will have managed to get that sorted today.
Have you thought about speaking to your sons school for some help with what happened, they may be able to offer some support and guidance for him from a professional, not saying that you are not being supportive but sometimes with children it can be better in these circumstances if they have someone outside the family to talk to.

Glad you had a good time. Whereabouts in Devon were you (if it's not inappropriate to ask)?

It is hard at the moment, but it will get easier, especially once you have legal documents in place. You will find a routine and things will fall into place.

You're doing really well. Well done.

I went to Chumleigh in Devon. I spoke to James last night at a last attempt to try and give him the chance to care just a little and so I wouldn't have to go legal. Call was a waste of time. He just said he didn't need a 'shouty late night phone call' I wasn't shouting but trying to discuss the situation. He told me he had already looked up maintenance for 4 kids and it was £260 a month. I had to get him to repeat this because I couldn't believe he had already looked at it like this - maybe he thinks I have to come back to him a i am going to be financially reliant on him in the months to come. Hopefully not I will do anything for this not to be the case. I can't believe he wasn't on his knees and looking for mediation of some sort. I asked if there was any news from the psychiatrist and he told me he would be starting therapy today for CBT. I asked if he remembered my email re this (had explained in this that CBT not the way forward but an abuse programme like RESPECT). He made no comment. I can't believe how cold he is being. He punched me in the face and says that it is due to a lot of anger that has been building up in our relationship. This pressure cooker theory is a myth according to Lundy - instead he acts out his feelings all the time. It is not his own feelings that he is distant from but mine and the children's. Will he ever get this I wonder?

Ps obviously I saw the solicitor today and the occupational order should hopefully be in place next week.

J4J, I haven't read the whole thread, just the top and tail and it sounds like you've moved forward so much - wow, that's such an amazing achievement. As others have said, your son's recent outburst is serious evidence that you did the right thing, hopefully just in time. He might benefit from specific support to process and deal with what he's experienced, so he can make different choices in future form what he has learned from his father.

The conversation with your ex sounds awful. It's understandable to want someone to change so much and finding it hard to get to that final point when you know it isn't going to happen. It sounds like he's still doing all the classic minimising, denying and blaming you - all evidence that he isn't getting it. I think you know the answer to the question at the end of that paragraph. It's really, really important to face that answer square in the face. If you have even a shred of hope that he might change, that he might show a sliver of regret, that he possibly could try to do something to change, he will have a chance there to get to you, to push your buttons and pull your strings. Don't let that happen, just don't let that happen.

Take good care.

Hi J, good to hear that the occupational order will be sorted soon, I know you didn't want to have to go down that route but it will be for the best and give you some peace of mind.
With regards to maintenance, you will be entitled to 25% of his net wage, so if you are aware of what he earns I would try and work it out for yourself, I think it is likely he is trying to pull a fast one on you there.
Given that he can afford a Harley street psychiatrist I suspect he will be having to pay you more than he is currently saying.
You can always contact the CSA to get it in place if you feel that he will be difficult over payments.

To be honest, I for one don't think he is ever going to 'get it' because he would have to properly take responsibility for the violence he showed to you and your children, all of his actions to date are him making excuses and not admitting the cold hard truth.

You have come such a long way and sound so much stronger than you did the first couple of weeks following the awful assault he put you through.

Congratulations on getting the occupational order sorted.

Will he ever get this I wonder?
Probably not. But what he thinks is his own lookout; you can't influence it. You are here to take care of your own self, and your children.

By the time they hit you they have lost all respect, so his attitudes now are not that surprising.

Good on you for getting a solicitor and sorting the occupational order.

So sorry he's being like this, J4J

I agree with the other posters, he's nowhere near acknowledging what he's done to you and the impact it's had.

"He punched me in the face and says that it is due to a lot of anger that has been building up in our relationship."

This ^^ is why you have done exactly the right thing with the occupational order - if it was about anger, then he'd be hitting strangers in the Post Office, or beating up his boss. As long as he continues to blame you and your relationship with him, he's a danger to your family. Well done for looking after you and your children.