first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

police officer head on here - if the property is either in joint names or his the locks cannot be changed, J must do what izzy spoke of on the previous page and get legally enforced injuctions/restraining orders to prevent him doing this. You cannot legally just change the locks if the property is in joint or his name.

do this properly - through a solicitor and do it now before any plans are made to leave the property unoccupied for a holiday. If j comes home and finds him there, there will be very little she can do to get him out.

do this now J.

the finer points of him undergoing therapy etc etc can be worked out later - safeguard yourself and your children for the time being. think about it later - act now.

My locks were changed by the family safety unit within a week of the assault...is it worth pursuing this issue with an IDVA? They also put window alarms and smoke alarms around the house. Not something I asked for, it just happened.

WaterLego, do you think this may be worth pursuing?

singingprincess - whose name was your house in? and did your ex have any bail conditions or court orders to prevent him coming anywhere near you?

at this stage J has neither of those things to prevent her DH from coming back, and until such time as they are in place i would say that legally he cannot be stopped. Thats why its imperative that she instructs her solicitor.

J4J. Think of it like this.

There you are, just walking down the street with your kids, when you meet a chap you know - you don't know him that well, but he's always seemed nice enough. He suggests you go for a coffee. You can't as you're on your way elsewhere with your kids. He punches you so hard you're rendered unconscious. You wake up to find your young child virtually hysterical thinking you were dead, your boy trying to get help etc etc etc.

Over the next couple of weeks, you get messages through mutual friends/acquaintances saying he still wants to be your friend, he'd still like to go for a coffee.

You're walking down the street again. You see him. You try to avoid him, avoid making eye contact, don't acknowledge him.

He is angry at your behaviour.

Is that reasonable?

The house is in joint names. No, no legal stuff in place at all...they just came and did it.

It sent a powerful message to h, that we were now "in the system" and it was nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the safety of the dc's.

Also on a 999 flag.

J4J, do you have an IDVA? Mine has been been great.

It has been two weeks since he knocked her unconscious the only decision to make now is that her h does. Not come in the house. Is very clear.

Two weeks since he beat her up.
Surely the only decision right now is to keep him away?

She maybe needs to be strong enough to tell him direct to back off for at least a month or so... Or get solicitor to do this. You can arrange the dc contact. She has no need to speak to him.
Or his family.

If over the next year he truly shows remorse and changes his attitude... Well at that point they can talk....

Someone who has been that violent well two weeks is surel y not enough time to decide he is fine or that he will be fine in the future. That is the only truth right now. The only truth is that he beat her up in front of dc and contact should be cut. For some weeks while j talks to people who are not directly involved. She does not need to be talking to his family at all.

Therapy to sort him out ? He isn't showing signs is he ie he is angry with her ....

My biggest concern is that the desire to normalise this situation and bring it to a close, will mean J4J being the one who makes the compromises (as it is for anyone in this situation)

Once you have done that... you accept that abuse is normal and spend the rest of your life avoiding it by stepping on eggshells. It's a damaging way to live.

Husband being angry sounds tbh pretty shite. Does he feel entitled to knock his wife unconscious and then everyone carry on as normal? Who should his anger be directed at?

Thank you again so much for your advice and opinions- it's very helpful for me and for J too.

I don't think J can change the locks- I've asked her if she can check with her solicitor this morning. I will see if she wants me to come to the house over half term- I wouldn't be able to house-sit as I have a friend coming to stay but I could certainly pop in daily if J needed me to.

Toothbrush- yes, people seeking to normalise this situation is a real issue but it's one J is very much aware of and, at present, rejecting. In fact, I would say it is making her angry which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think J feels that others are seeking to normalise this only for their own benefit- it would be better for them if it could all be forgotten and brushed under the carpet but J is not about to forget.

J's husband has had his first appointment with the psychiatrist and will be continuing to see them- I don't know how many sessions.

J is planning to carry on with the Freedom project, as far as I know and is also reading the Lundy Bancroft (sp?) book which was recommended here.

As for J's emotional state and future plans, I will give her the opportunity to discuss those herself here. I already feel as though I'm stepping on her toes a bit by posting about her situation (sorry J, hope you're not cross. Just want to be able to support you in the right way. This is all very alien to both of us, isn't it? xxxxx)

Was I just very lucky then?

It seemed that once the surgery, police and ss became involved, everything happened regardless of me, including having the locks changed. No one said anything about legal stuff.

Have you, J, had contact with any agencies? I don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any one on one support here. The FP is great, but J needs some personal support too. Maybe ring the SW and ask?

Waterlego, it is so good that J has you there for support, but I would echo Singingprincess that she should have some professional help whilst she is going through all of this.

J, Waterlego can I ask why H decided upon going to see a Psychiatrist as opposed to a professional experienced in domestic violence.
I feel concerned about what I believe is his choice in who can 'help' him.
A qualified Psychiatrist will be bound by strong confidentiality towards his client and afaik (I have 20+ years experience as a qualified nurse) a Psychiatrist is not the first port of call when it comes to issues surrounding domestic violence.
My concerns are that he will tell you that the Psych has diagnosed him with some mental health problem or other and that he maybe needs meds and that all will be ok. How would you know if this was in fact the case? Also if there are any mental health issues it does not in any way excuse or indeed explain his actions as I assume he manages to live a violent free existence outside of your marriage.

J I hope you are keeping well and strong as you really do appear to be. x

Just to add, if he has chosen a Psychiatrist on the basis of anger management then he is barking up the wrong tree, I would hazard a guess that he has no problems keeping any anger he has in check outside the home.

Also how will you know that he has even divulged how he punched you, knocking you unconscious then proceeded to manhandle you ds. Will he divulge that he has tried to minimise what he did to you and told you to get up off the floor?

Really good questions catherine.

I don't know why the H or his GP chose a psychiatrist. I asked him why when he was visiting on Sunday and said I was surprised they hadn't referred him to a DV specialist. He said he went to the GP and asked for a referral with his Bupa. The GP referred to Psychiatrist.

You are absolutely right that we have no idea what the H has said to the GP or the Psych. He may well have reported it as an anger management issue. I imagine it's very unlikely he has identified himself as an emotional abuser/controlling.

I also agree that J could benefit from more professional help- I do feel she has just been left to get on with it with little guidance from those who have experience of these things.

J4J and Waterlego - I'm also surprised at the referral to a psychiatrist.
My dh was abusive to me (not really physically but emotionally and verbally) but when he sought help it was via a therapist. He spent over 2.5 years seeing him weekly and with that help he has made huge changes.
A psychiatrist really deals with medication for mental illness. They have the authority to prescribe drugs, unlike a psychotherapist, and this is really all they do (in my own experience - I've seen both).
I fail to see how a psychiatrist is going to help at all here.
I suggest J4J, that you get guidance as to how to proceed from woman's aid. And also continue going along to the freedom program meeting that you found helpful last week.
Wishing you strength.

Well I wouldn't have thought you could get specific DV support through Bupa!!
I just wanted to get the questions out there as I would hate for J's H to try all is well now I have X wrong with me according to the psychiatrist and I am now going to be ok, which to me is what it very much looks like he will do.

Do the share the same GP at all and has J been to see the GP since all of this happened? x

waterego I completely agree with catherine - it is not an anger management issue. He manages to avoid hitting people he works with, people who make him cross in traffic, people who queue jump in the supermarkets. It's completely about control, and I personally would be pushing for a DV specialist, not a psychiatrist.

I don't know if I'm along in this opinion, but I just have an overwhelming sense of futility about all of this. It just feels like he's wheedling, manoeuvering, manipulating, wriggling and that's it's all just so pointless because he just doesn't WANT to be different and to relinquish control of J.

I'm sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, or being depressing, but I just feel like everything that's happening at the moment isn't going to lead at all towards any kind of positive outcome.

Part of me just wishes J could be past all of this and happy and out of this mire.

Every single programme that comes under the umbrella of Respect...See link at the top in the dv webguide....has an integrated partner support worker.

There are reasons for this. It's because these men are very deeply in denial, they lie for Britain, and are master manipulators. They truly believe that it is "not them".

The purpose of the IPS worker is to support the partner, obviously, but to make sure that the perpetrators REALLY face up to what they've done.

It has been shown time and time again that group therapy is the most effective, (whatever that means!) and that input from the partner is completely crucial in getting an optimum result. That is, that they get what they have done...really get it, the effect of the controlling behaviours as well as any violence.

I would say that the psychiatrist is a red herring.

Speak to respect...they are beyond brilliant...they can suss out every tine bit of these people's behaviour, and see how it is merely a means to manipulate the situation into being back to the status quo as quickly as possible....because that is ALL these men want. Power and control, and they will do anything, including murder sometimes, as we know....to get it.

The Respect programmes try and get these men to face up to the consequences of their behaviours on any children too.

Funnily enough, they have a high drop out rate...and that is if you can get him to go to one in the first place!

Noway
Yes, I wish J could be through it and happy. It won't happen overnight though will it? Regardless of what her OH does or doesn't do. J is doing what she needs to do to protect herself and the children. She is not making future plans at the moment, as far as I know.

I guess the OH thought (as others did) that a psychiatrist is at the top of the tree in terms of working out what's going on in people's heads! As he doesn't identify himself as abusive it wouldn't have occurred to him to seek specialist help of that type.

I will speak to J about Respect- they sound good.

wannabe why the sceptical face?

Waterlego, maybe he did think that, BUT I honestly believe any psychiatrist worth their salt would have re-directed J's h to somewhere more suitable had they been made aware of the actual true situation.

In my cynical mind I feel that he is doing what he thinks will be enough to get back into the house with J, I mean 'he is seeing a top rate expensive psychiatrist to sort this out and she still won't let me back so therefore J is being unreasonable'.

It may be a good idea if J looks at the respect program and tells her h that this is what he must do at the bare minimum. I suspect he will refuse as it isn't his terms though.

J, how are you feeling about it all now, right now can you actually envisage him ever coming home? Hugs

I have just spoken to J. She has read some of the recent posts but hasn't time to read them all or to post. She has her 3 year-old and 14 month-old at home with her most of the time. Plus, J has a desktop computer upstairs rather than a laptop so it is very difficult for her to read and post.

She has asked me to ask you all what an IDVA is? And how she can go about accessing this help. She also wants to know more about the Respect programmes so I will look at their website for her.

Thank you.

Independent domestic violence advisor. They are usually allocated by the police I think. I can't for the life of me understand why J hasn't got one...I think a phone call to the police dv unit, or the sw is in order...I guess you could do that waterlego.

I had a floating support worker visit me too....her job title was the only thing that raised half a smile in those first days...Bum...just made myself cry.

Oh Singing. Can I give you a wee, unmumsnetty hug? (((Singingprincess))) It's so benevolent of you to use your painful experience to help others.

I have found an organisation in our town which describes itself as an 'Independent Domestic Violence Advisory Service'. I'm guessing J hasn't contacted them yet so will pass the details on to her.

Thank you...but I have come such a long way...especially with the help of the awesome women on this site...and J will too.

If I can give a bit back, then good.

x