first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

Forgot to add- as yet, I don't think J has instigated any legal injunctions/orders so does this mean she would not have the right to make her H leave the house during a visit if she wants him to?

I hasten to add, I imagine J's husband will be very keen to toe the line at this stage but you never know.

With regard to the non-response of the MIL I can say here is a mother who if my son so much as lifted a finger towards a woman or marked her in any way would be blasted into oblivion by me,I would be more concerned with DIL and possible injuries to DGSs in the future,darling son or not.P.S please be careful when/if your partner wants to see the children he may decide that he wants to stay and you will have problems getting him out as stated by waterlego

I would be very inclined not to have him visit the family home to see the children at all. It could be regarded at failing to safeguard the children.

If she feels strongly that they should see their father, then somewhere like a softplay place could be the way forward.

Seconding what JsOtherHalf posted.

Has J4J discussed this with her solicitor? I'm worried that for custody proceedings, J's husband's legal team might argue that the husband isn't so dangerous if J let him back in the house and allowed him access to the children. Or that J was negligent in allowing access.

no dont have him visit the dc at home. no no on.

have visits with Dc on neutral territory.

see how dc react to visits with him.
given the behaviour and what the dc saw it is soo important they see home as a safe place now ie without him in it.

arrange vists eg soft play or library or park - supervised by someone other than j4j eg friend, relative she trusts etc

check what police said to him? did he get a caution?
was he told not to go near her?

otherwise it will start with visitng dc at home then he will get back in and be living there....

in order to monitor Dc reactions to him it needs to be elsewhere and safe.

has she asked DC to draw pictures, express what they feel about the situation?

she needs to put it to them talk to them - eg if tehy been asking about seeing daddy or not?
explain to them she is arranging for them tos ee dadddy at xxxx place on xxxday - see how they react - if thy desperate to go or any other reaction?

dont forget the four year old thought he had killed her mother...

my dds would express the view theywere scared to be around dad.

when they saw him in contact centre they were ok because they knew other adult would be there. j4j has to be certain and sure so she can tell teh dc so - that they will be safe.

she needs to be talking to herDC and guaging their feelings on this - not pushing them to see dad if they not ready. this is about them - not about dad right now.

if there are issues eg DC say no (or some of the DC say no) and he is pushing for contact and being demanding - well then let him take it to court so CAFCASS can get involved.
she can speak to GP about all this too and hv/SS to maybe arange safe place eg childrens centre

Toe in the door. Thin end of the wedge. Be very careful.

I'm not an expert, but was at risk of being 'kidnapped' by my father at one point when young. A neutral meeting place with a responsible third party there and J4J if she/the children want her to be there too would probably be best. It might even be an idea to have two neutral people if all the children are there but if that would make H feel under attack, then perhaps not a great idea.

As someone below said, it's the children that are most important in this particular decision. It could be that one/some want to see him, but after find they are more confused, so may need more support in the drawing pictures, or other child-focused method.

I also agree with the others who are saying J4J that what you are doing is amazing! And think of it like this: your strength and courage might just give somebody reading this the belief that they too can get out of and help for a difficult or DV relationship that they are in.

In fact, following this thread has made me realise just how GIANT (am not shouting, there's no bold on phone!) a component emotional training abuse is in DV and that a former boyfriend of mine, who never lifted a finger to me (only together for a year), was most definitely, definitely in this category.

J4J, you are amazing, you can do this (you ARE doing this ). Take all the help you can find and don't be afraid to use it or ask for more.

Definetly not meet up at home .
SS can arrange for J to meet up on neutral ground at a contact centre.
J and the children need to feel that their home is a safe environment . Psychologically and physically . More than ever now, home needs to be a safe retreat from everything going on .

Hello again ladies, thank you for answering my questions re. home visits- I have relayed your comments on to J.

I know J doesn't have much time to read and post so I hope she won't mind me posting on her behalf just to say that she is indeed doing tremendously well. This morning she is attending a support group run by our town's branch of women's aid. It is the Freedom programme which I have read good things about.

cantreach What you say about emotional abuse is, I think, really pertinent. I think J is now beginning to reflect on her H's attitude towards her in general and recognising that there have been elements of controlling behaviour and emotional abuse.

It's very touching that people have shared their stories here and extended their concern to a stranger. Thank you all.

i am so glad that she is beginning to see that this cannot have been just one isolated incident waterlego and im very glad that she is getting RL support.

Regarding the police - it is unlikely that her husband will have been given any kind of conditions to keep away, given that this was his first offence, and given that they share a home/children. The police would deal with the offence, but he has not been bailed, (so no bail conditions).

Given that, i would strongly advise that J4 does not allow access to the home until she has given more thought to deciding what she wants long term. If she decides she wants a permanent split, then she needs to see a solicitor. In fact - i think given the circumstances, in her shoes, i would book a half hour, freebie appointment to discuss her rights.

it is also about how the Dc feel about what happened.
she might want to go to GP and ask about local services family therapists etc.

someone objective to lsiten to the Dc views and their experience of what happened recently (and previosuly) .

this is about the DC very much so and not just j .

getting mesage to dc that home is now a safe place as dad isnt in it.
that if they want to see dad this can be arranged in a safe manner.

that the Dc are being listened to.

j needs to know:
what is dad asking for?
is he pushing for contact?
doe he seem to think if he waits long enough j will have him back?

she needs to know really and consult with a solicitor.

As Waterlego has said I went to the freedom project today. We discussed different types of abuser. I thought I already knew which category he fell into but in fact once I listened realised that actually he is something very different. I can't believe i have been so ignorant to all this it has just happened so gradually. I think that cestlavielife is right in the sense that he is thinking if he waits long enough I'll have him back what i am hoping instead is that he actually listens to the professional help - it is all very well that he is willing to get it but how do i know he is not just going through the motions and that underneath he is still the same person. Afterall i am learning and changing as a person through this - will he? I really want to get an occupational order in place just for my own peace of mind but I don't want to make him angry and back him into a corner and not give him the chance that he I think should have to change. The children haven't expressed a wish to see him and he hasn't said anything about seeing them this weekend yet. Bare in mind that they don't normally see him in the week anyway as he works away. My son had a bad nightmare last night involving me. The ss is coming round this afternoon to see the older two at home after school. Not sure what jux message means.

as was said to me - it is not your responsibility if he gets angry - you dont have to walk on eggshells any more as he is out of your house and you can put up barriers. you are safe now - if he phones and is angry - put phone down "gotta go children calling bye" .
if he at door - dont open and call police.
if he emails /texts demanding to talk to you - offer mediation with third party only. (mediation not good in cases of DV but speak to your local people about this ) - so alternative is to say "email your proposals to me". so you have written record. dontrespond to emails til 24 hours have gone by unless urgent. take time to respond then only factually "yes we will arrange with person xxx for you to see dc at xxx place at xxx time on xxx day"

change your mindset to - his anger is his problem.
he has same equal access to lawyers and advice as you have (eg he can cal fatehrs for justice, respect etc... www.respect.uk.net/ if he needs support ......

keep open lines of communication beteen you and DC.
if ds had a dream - ask him if he wants to write it down or draw it and let it out. listen and acknowlege his feelings "yes you must be feeling sad/angry/cross/upset" (told to me by child psychologist)

jux was saying i think - dont let him across the threshold with even one toe - or you wont get him out again/same thing will happen again.

You have come such a long way ,J, in such a short time.

I wish my mum had been half as courageous as you.

You are awesome to me.

cestlavie's advice above is spot on. If you feel an occupational order is the best thing for you, your DC and your life at the moment, then get one .

Whether he gets angry or not is proportionately irrelevant when balanced with the safeguarding of your children and their home. The time when his anger was your problem has passed.

FWIW, I also would be wary of whether he's just going through the motions in order to demonstrate he's "changed" - but I reckon that, fortunately, that is a healthy distrust to have at the moment based on recent events.

At the moment, you have been through the mill, your children have witnessed something absolutely horrifying, and I truly believe that you will have more than enough on your plate over the next few months just getting you (you and DC) through this.

He can get on and do what he wants to do/take any advice he needs to/undertake any treatment, but really you've got bigger fish to fry.

I also took Jux's post about the "thin edge of the wedge" to mean that at first it's just getting a foot in the door for a 1 hour visit with the kids, then it's an afternoon on a weekend, then he's staying for dinner, then he's asking if he can crash on the spare bed, then he's just BACK. Don't let that happen - your DC need to feel safe in their home.

I

I agree with the others. Do not allow him in the home and find neutral places for visits.
For your own safety even.

I think you'll be able to tell if he is only going through the motions or really changing.

My "test" is how he deals with the old triggers and whether he acknowledges what he has done.

Sorry J4J. I was thinking about him seeing the children in your home, and letting him in the house again. That that could so easily be the thin end of the wedge.

Thread had moved on while I was reading and posting, so cestlavie had already said.

The Freedom Program sounds really good. I have heard great things of it on MN, so I'm really glad you're there, and hope it helps you get things really clear in your head. It must be so hard to discover that the person you have been sharing your life with is not who you thought they were. You are a quite astonishingly strong woman and I salute you.

Keep going. Everyone here is rooting for you.

Good.

ive not read all this thread ,my dd ex bf hit her 3 times and also shook her baby in his high chair in the end no charge shes moved on now got a lovely bf and is having a baby in july :)

That's good ilove. It must have been awful for you too, waiting for her to make the decision.

keep going to the freedom programme - it will give you the resolve you may well need over the coming weeks.

again, your mindset has been not to make him angry, not to rock the boat - you need to understand that his anger is not your responsibility, whether you are together or not. It sounds like you have become so conditioned to altering your behaviour to suit his moods that its automatic - i would work on that before you do anything else.