first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

I'm really sorry j4J but I'm going to have to hide this thread. As an outsider, I can see you're beginning to justify and normalise his actions, to make everything that he did okay so that you can carry on in your sham of a happy family, so that your children can grow up thinking this is normal behaviour, so that you can become one of those dreadful statistics, and probably your children will too. Nothing that anyone has said on the thread seems to be getting through, none of the real experiences being shared by women who have been through it, by people with knowledge of family support who recognise what is happening, none of the help that has been offered. As another poster has pointed out, that your parents have allowed this man to stop with them indicates that there are probably family issues going on too, and I guess abuse is a normal part of your family and your upbringing, and so the sins of the father are passed down unto the next generation.

I'm glad I don't know your real life name because maybe next week, or maybe next month, or maybe next year, or maybe it may take a few years, it will be a quiet news week so you might even make the headlines. Maybe your husband will kill your kids at the same time as he kills you, and that will definitely make the headlines. But I don't know your name so I won't know it's the end of your story.

hello OP

i noticed on a post a few pages back you said you were confused about hte police response - i hope i can help a bit.

You absolutely did right giving a statement, but when you gave that statement, did you give a "non complaint" statement or did you say you wanted to make a complaint with regard to the assault and have him charged?
When the officer asked if you would be willing to go to court - did you say Yes?
The fact also that you didnt report this may have had a bearing on how the case was handled.

These are all factors that the officer would have to provide to the CPS - (crown prosecution service) - our force policy is that ALL domestic violence cases have to go before the CPS for charging decisions. The CPS lawyer will usually take into account the willingness of the victim to help with any prosection.

If the victim says they will not cooperate the CPS often drop the case altogether or advise what they can under the circumstances - If you husband has never come to the attention of the police before - ie - he has no previous - then depending on your answers to the above questions, they CPS may well recommend a caution for a first time offence.

There is a sort of "process" - punishment tends to go in "steps" - and the police may well have been tied by the advice of the CPS in this.
Peoples expectations i have found are way out of kilter with the "process" that tends to actually happen and that most officers are tied by.

Make no mistake - you husband was arrested, put into a cell, interviewed under caution, and he will have been told in no uncertain terms that should he come back into custody for the same or similar offence, he will be dealt with more severely.

But now this is where you come in OP - because you HAVE to wake up to this.
You did not call the police. The hospital did. He will do this again. and again. and again.
Are you prepared to start calling the police on him?

I think you need to keep this man away from you and your children, i have personal experience of DV and i can tell you now, that i do not see my own mother and have not for years, because, she did what you are thinking of doing, she stayed with a violent abuser and i cannot forgive her.

I deal with so many domestic incidents now, and they all mirror yours. without exception, and i can tell almost straight away who is willing to help themselves and help the police and who is not.

Only you can decide what to do. You should get a follow up call from a DV officer, and they will give you some leaflets and information.

Use it. Get this man out of your house and away from your children. They are always sorry.
until next time.
and the time after that.

on average, it takes 35 incidents of DV to occur before the victim herself calls for our assistance.

is that going to be you OP?

and saskia - you have given all real victims of DV a massive 'fuck you' - i do hope you realise that this is why my job is so bloody difficult.

If i had been the bobby dealing with you and yoru false reporting - i would have happily given you a ticket for wasting police time.

im a police officer. you should be utterly utterly ashamed and you should have been hit in the pocket with a ticket. You committed a criminal offence by making false reports. and trust me - the police will know, so next time, when you find one of those frogs who bites you right on the arse - well - have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

if not you should read it. it would probably suit your age group and your mentality.

Vicar 35 incidents of DV on average? That makes my blood run cold.
I'm glad to hear the police take it more seriously now. They certainly didn't 20years ago, which I think led my mum into taking the only action she thought she had.
OP please listen to what people are telling you. No victims of DV think they are like the women they read about. But they are.
I know you are struggling, and frightened. But your children will be more so, except they don't have the power to do anything about it. One day your DC could be on the recieving end of such behaviour, or they could be the ones who are doing it. One day your DS could turn on you because that is the example he has been shown. Don't ignore that, it does happen.

OP I never get involved on these threads, mainly because thankfully it is so far out of my sphere of knowledge I have nothing constructive to say. However your thread is so chilling I can't help but add to the chorus of voices telling you to protect yourself and most of all your children by neve letting this man share your home again. He'll kill you. Or your kids. Don't let it happen.

vicar is right - if OP calls for assistance herself police will act very quickly.
My DH turned up to an incident of domestic violence where the lady wanted it all to end but she was frightened and unsure.
DH turned up - he and the other officer ran round the house collecting and packing her belongings. They immediately took her to a refuge to keep her safe and then dealt with the perpetrator the same day .
If you don't act OP your children are at high risk .

Domestic violence is high on the agenda for the police .
Please call them .

J4J

You want to believe that this is a one off incident. That it will not happen again. That is only natural. The thing is, it is a bit like a surgeon telling you you need surgery. You don't want surgery, you hate hospitals, it is a terrifying thought. You ask "but surely i can live with a faulty heart"
Yes says the Dr, but for how long?

You can try to convince yourself that you will be the one that disproves EVERY statistic. But would you?

Do you really believe that every single woman on this page, those with direct and indirect experience of DV are lying? or that we are simply wrong?

Is your husband really such an extraordinarily fantastic man that to be with him is worth sacrificing both your own but more importantly your childrens emotional well being?

I don't have a crystal ball. no one does. But we can predict the future without one. We look at how specific situations have worked previously, we build a picture of how they develop. Just ike a surgeon knows that within 3-6 months your valves will deteriorate, I know that your husband will hit you.

He will.

Every single one of your posts has shed further light to the true character of this "loving" husband. He is controlling, abusive, you have to warn him not to be so "rough" with your children, He is violent and arrogant enough to not think it necessary to even try and manipulate you. He knows you are already too far under his spell to need to.

He will hit you again.

I promise.

And when he does he will do it again. and again after t hat. and he will carry on and on until one day he kills you.

And however much your children love you and try to protect you, they will grow up with at least a small part of them that resents you for not leaving.
For making them have to listen/watch you being hit.

I know all t his not just because I have been through it myself, not just because i volunteer at a rape crisis centre and have dealt with a sickening number of women just like you, but because i just know. Deep in my heart i know. In the same way i know that tomorrow is friday, that my gas bill is due next week, that when DD comes home from school she will drop her coat on the stairs rather than the coat hook, I KNOW. because it is the same every time. it is how it has always been and always will be.

Sweetheart there are people out there who WILL help you. Why are you telling yourself that you should be hit again before you act?

please. Please please please, don't let him back.

J4J, how are you today? How are the kids?

How were things with the SW?

Can you post? You probably feel that people are getting at you. Please try to tell yourself that they aren't. Everyone here (I missed the posts that have been removed) but everyone else, we are all here for you. Yes, we are urging you to take a massive step into the unknown and the frightening. We are telling you things which you don't want to believe, perhaps can't believe. Perhaps you'll believe them another time though. I hope you won't have to get to another time. I hope you'll make yourself and your hcildren safe this time. That's my hope, our hope.

Whatever, please keep posting. You need somewhere to go to offload, and this a better place than most. People here will hold your hand.

j4j- I can understand you wanting to believe this was a one off and won't happen again ,i was like that too my h used to be physically violent to me i thought it was ok cause it wasn't every week or month sometimes it would be years before it happened again.
I always thought that was the end of it , till it happened again . I have left now and it was the hardest thing ive ever done but i have spared my 3 children a lifetime of being scared , i did it for them.
Now i'm out it's brilliant i can do what i like ,because the violence wasn't that regular occurance i was in denial untill i read the lundy bancroft book and realised he'd actually done lots of abusive things i didn't notice.
Get out now your children will thank you for it .

Bumping for J4J. How are you?

J4J - I think there are a lot of people who are thinking of you and your DC. You will get support from MN. You will also get conflicting views. There has been a consistent message here though (nutters aside). I'm sure you feel pressurised and hope you can find a bit of a breathing space to step back and see things clearly. Put yourself in another woman's shoes. Would you advise her to let this pass because confronting it caused some horrible truths?

Get him as far away from you and your children as possible. So sorry for you!

Thank you all so much for the support you are giving me. It is all so full on here at the moment which is why i'm not posting much - wish i had more time to think! Is this unforgivable or is there a way of giving him a second chance? Can it be unforgivable but still keep a relationship. I keep getting flashbacks and kind of jumping when i think about it - only started last night what's that about. It really is the first time he has hit me but with such force and i look a mess. Why? Can counselling really change behaviour and if it can't what are the point of counsellors? If he does come back how can he make up for it? If i decide on separation how long for some of you have said 6 months... how will we afford it him paying mortgage and a place for himself - 2 of my children are pre-schoolers. I am not worried about him coming back to the house but its more that i feel insecure about what might happen in certain situations. Got to go and eat some dinner.

you sound all over the place and you are thinking at a 100 miles an hour.

Have you spoken to anyone from Womens Aid? They are the real experts on DV issues, and they can help you work out what to do.

You sound like you are diving back on to the thread to post without actually reading the responses. i appreciate you are busy. but please, when the kids are in bed, tonight, sit and read this thread again. all of it.

Counselling is not a cure all or a magic wand. Counselling will not change your DH.

What is the point of setting "targets" for a period of separation? I know what you are doing.
you are wanting to go through the motions of "punishing" his behaviour, but with a view to having things go "back to normal" when you think you have done it long enough.
that wont work OP. im sorry. but it wont.

the best piece of advice i could give you right now is speak to womens aid.

Don't have him back because just you cannot imagine how you will cope with a divorce, how you will afford it etc.

You need time apart, whatever you decide to do long term.

The level of force used is indeed the frightening bit. 'Just a slap' is unacceptable. Punching and kocking someone out?????? That is impossible to forgive. I'm sorry you are having flashbacks but I'm not surprised. Look after yourself and your little DC

Are you a reader? if that is how you best gain insight and information then you might like to look at Lundy bancroft's "Why does he do that?" it looks big but is actually very readable and there will be some sections that you could skip...

In my opinion very little is unforgivable but there are situations that you need to make safety your first consideration.That is you now.

He can be apart from you for a while to confront what he has done and investigate why it happened and start the transformation process these people do phone line help for perpetrators and approve courses. he needs to be apart from you probably to do this or "normal" will take over and he may not see the need. but more importantly you need him to be away for a while to protect yourself.

living outside the home need not be that expensive...the governments allows single rooms in homes to be rented to individuals for under £90 pw(I think) all in.

Saving your relationship may or may not happen, him doing that to you again (or worse) MUST NOT HAPPEN, your children need you, alive, well and not brain damaged. You owe yourself and them SAFETY.

Timing: 6 months at least to complete the course, one year to show that he is making sustained changes to his attitudes and treatment of you. And some counselling for you to work out where strong healthy relationships put boundaries and to deal with what you have been through. Then reassess where you both are....that is of course only my opinion...I actually stipulated 2 years for my other half, he has walked away without acknowledging anything he has done, no attempt to change at all...but that, as they say, is another thread.

Sorry so long. hope you are surviving this terrible shock .
Tomorrow the sun may shine, I hope it does on you and your DCs

I sense panic in the OP because her violent H was told he could stay with her parents until the weekend

Op, he is coming back to your house tomorrow, isn't he ?

Hi J4J, how did the visit go with eth social workers today?

I appreciate that your head must be so full of questions right now, but you simply have to prioritise the safety of your children.

You are asking about whether this is an unforgivable act and how you could sustain your relationship but all of these questions are irrelevant if you wish to continue to care for your children.

Your husband is a very dangerous man. You may choose to put your own life at risk by welcoming him back into your home but are you really comfortable with risking your children's lives in that way?

OP, I tend to agree with Nigella - I know it's your relationship with your H and the status quo which has suddenly shifted underneath you, but your priority at the moment can't be your relationship with him and what's going to happen.

Your priority HAS to be your children. They need their mother as their father isn't there and, to them, is now associated with violence in fear.

They need to see you being strong and putting them first. What happened with Social Services today? How are the kids after the visit? Have any of them spoken to you yet about what happened? How is their behaviour in general - have you noticed anything unusual?

If you're getting flashbacks I wonder what your DC feel :(

Its the first time he has hit you with such force I remember my dad banging my mothers head off a wall while i was lying in bed crying and she was screaming, i'm 34.

Get. Rid. Of. Him. Now.

Or deal with your kids when they are fucked up adults wondering why you didnt protect them.

Exactly froggy cos thats what I think of my mother and I don't see her anymore/

i'm 34 too awoman, it's not something you forget is it.