Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

You probably don't make your husband feel like shit do you Stewie. This isn't the first time apparently as he feels he comes last a lot.

Reading between the lines, she aint snow white, she's sneaky. He aint satan, he's had enough.

At the end of the day, they both need to sit down and talk about where they're at as communication is an all time low here.

I didnt say either of their actions were acceptable, I pointed out that there was mitigate provocation. They are as bad as each other and probably shouldn't be together.

Been reading this thread and agree that this relationship isn't healthy and won't be happy one long term, the op should call it a day, but am I the only one who thinks the op sounds very immature?

• mitigated-

Bollox - mitigating....

Are you OK GingerBiscuit?

This sounds very scary what he did, you must have been absolutely terrified.

It does sound like you think you deserved it in some way because you hurt his feelings by going out with your friends, but the thing is, if his feelings were hurt, he could have told you he was angry, he could have complained a bit, he could have sulked maybe and stayed angry for a while. The idea that you going out with friends justifies dragging you across a room and threatening you until you submit in fear is absolutely unbelievable.

I know people saying leave him must sound almost overwhelming and you're remembering the good times and good things in your relationship, but the thing is he has revealed a side of himself that there is no way you or your children can live with. He'll do this again, and your relationship from now on will be moderating your behaviour so he doesn't hurt and terrorise you because you haven't behaved the way he wanted.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is what are the obstacles that would stop you leaving, and perhaps talk them through here. You don't deserve to be treated like this just because something you did made a man angry. I hope you see that.

i'm not sure which bit of this is hard to understand.

Why do a lot of people use these sort of phrases to try to make out another poster is thick?

Is that not being a tad abusive? umm what's the name for it?

"he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me"

Can I also point out that he already did.

What he's doing here is trying to brainwash you out of seeing what just happened, make you doubt your own perceptions. Apparently threatening terrorising and grabbing you doesn't count as hurting in his eyes. That's yet another reason to get the hell away from him.

Fuzzy he did drag her. The Op states So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

He dragged her from one room to another hurting her before she hit him because he was hurting her.

How is that unclear or acceptable?

Are you for real Fuzzy, have you actually read the OP properly? He grabbed her first, she hit him in panic, What provocation did he have before he dragged her from the kitchen to the livingroom? Not that anything is an excuse for that kind of behaviour anyway. I don't think you have read the OP properly because she clearly states that he yelled in her face and then grabbed her by the arm and dragged her. I read nothing, absolutely nothing that could be classed as provocation from her side.

I'm not sure if I can carry on reading this thread, I really feel physically sick :(

Anyone who finds this mans behaviour justifiable, I pity you I really do, that you would have so little respect for yourself and other women and such little faith in how real men behave.

My sister is dead because of a man who started out treating her exactly like the OP's partner, the OP could have been from her diary in the early days of her relationship. How dare any of you suggest that this mans behaviour was in any way right or understandable. He has not only crossed the line, he dug it up and took it with him. We all said everything on this thread to my sister and still she stayed, it was her fault, she started the argument, she wound him up, and it got worse and worse and lots of emotional and mental abuse thrown in too, she gave every pathetic excuse in the book because she loved him, and now she's gone and her kids have no mum.

You should be completely ashamed of yourselves, how dare you try and tell this poor woman that she is not in danger, you really do not understand how these men work, or think or react or you would see this situation for what it really is.

Fuzzynavel - you, you personally, with your horrible, ill-thought-out posts should read Rika's post and reconsider everything you have posted this evening.
I'm so sorry Rika.

OP he has abused you. He has hurt you and he has been violent towards you.
Perhaps he's told you he won't ever do it again. You cannot take the chance of waiting to find out if he means it. The next physical assault may be 6 months from now, by which time you may be pregnant, or have bought a house together. All reasons why you might let him away with it again.
I wish I'd been brave 15 years ago. I wish I'd made sure the first punch was the very last. I wish I'd said then that no man would ever use his physical strength to over power and control me, to 'punish' me for daring to disagree with him.
Don't be another victim. There are plenty of people who will make excuses for what he has done. God help the children who are brought up in the homes where this behaviour is 'okay'.
And Rika - there are no words

The sort of people who say "oh give him another chance, you were asking for it you know, why do you have to push him" etc etc are the exact same people who ten years down the line will say "you stayed in an abusive relationship for TEN YEARS?! Wy didn't you leave you idiot did you WANT to be a victim?".

Because everything is always the woman's fault, we are supposed to be the peacemakers, if there's discord in the house it must be because of us. Add a dollop of Just World complex ("these awful things could never happen to me, they only happen to idiots who deserve it") and you get such incredibly illogical and damaging posts like an unfortunate few above.

Patti you say you read my posts, but then you ask me this: "Are you saying it was okay for him to grab her and her her and drag her through the house? Because that's what your post reads like. Do you think she deserved that for going out when he wanted her to stay in?" Which makes me think that if you did read my posts then you didn't give them much attention. Here's a reminder for you:

If he has been physical with you during rows before, then he's crossed the line already, and it sounds as though his behaviour is escalating.

The other key thing for me is that if you sit down with him calmly and discuss what happened, does he acknowledge that him dragging you by the arm was the thing that crossed the line, and that you lashing out (unacceptable though that was) was a reaction to being physically hurt and intimidated? If he's still blaming you for hitting him, rather than seeing that dragging you was completely out of order, then I think you've got a big problem.

It depends on what that one-off incident is, actually - violence that causes lasting pain or injury, even if it's a one off, isn't tolerable at all, under any circumstances, in my opinion...

...dragging the OP by the arm is indefensibly wrong.

So in answer to your question, er... no I don't think it was in any way ok, or that she deserved it. Sorry - I thought I'd made that clear.

I think this is a subject that people (understandably) get extremely emotive about on here, especially when they have personal experience of it. But I think it's also a subject where people who have personal experience of violent, controlling men, and have escaped that situation, tend to see situations described on MN as very black and white, and ascribe the worst possible motivations to the men. Anyone who sees shades of grey in the situation gets shouted down and accused of being a DV apologist. I don't think it's helpful, actually, and I think it scares a lot of posters into abandoning their threads (like this OP seems to have done). That just seems counterproductive.

I'm going to step away from this thread now, because I'm feeling a bit vulnerable at the mo, and this thread isn't improving things.

OP if you're still reading, then I hope things work out for you.

But Crabby - physical violence in a relationship is one of those issues where there are NO grey areas. The second he grabbed her arm her was totally in the wrong and the OP would be totally justified in leaving him.
"Grey shades" aside - who really WANTS to be in a relationship where the participants interact with each other like this?? If women genuinely think this is a normal part of being a couple, then something, somewhere has gone totally wrong.
Why don't women think enough of themselves to demand the absolute best from a partner?

Shades of grey are exactly where the DV Apologism IS crabby.

It is NEVER acceptable for anyone to drag people by the arm, scream at them or threaten them. Especially when he has technically had the time that a normal bloke would take to calm down.

Soggy said that when he got up in her face and told her NEVER to hit him again in a a menacing manner she pointed out to him that his behaviour too had been unacceptable and he ESCALATED. He DID see that his being hit by her was an issue but his dragging was not. HE is entitled to manhandle her, SHE is not allowed to defend herself.

We are NOT talking about a normal relationship here, please stop trying to make it so.

This guy had ample opportunity NOT to go there, but he did., HE stepped out of line WAY before she did.

So, to put it as clearly as I can. When it comes to hitting a partner, there ARE no shades of grey. Unacceptable IS unacceptable.

Just realised I used totally 3 times in about 4 sentences. Bugger. Point still stands even if crappily put.

"Why don't women think enough of themselves to demand the absolute best from a partner?"

Because they listen to grey area thinking, they give the bugger another chance, they get told they wound him up, stop making a scene, they started it.

Over time, it sticks. That's why it's VITAL to walk at the first sign of it, because (a) it's so destructive, (b) it's so addictive (c) it's so stealthy that before you know it you have been with him years, have kids and have to stay for the sake of them.

If we are taught to walk at the outset, it'll communicate to the perpetrators that they CAN'T do this any more.

We have to do and say and try anything possible to break these toxic relationships.

These relationships KILL.

2 women a WEEK are killed in this country by their partners.

LOOK at Rika's Sister I am so sorry for your loss my love.

I have no experience whatsoever of domestic violence, Crabby. But if I walked into a room and saw one person dragging another person around by the arm I would ring the police. And if someone did that to me I would try to fight them off in self-defence.