Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

Op, do you know how your partner's previous relationships have ended?
Because I would wager that he has been "physical" with women in the past from your posts. Why does he need to go for a walk to calm down when you argue.? So he won't hit you?
Yes, you should perhaps have sorted your plans and let him know beforehand that you were out on Saturday, but after that he behaved abysmally and imo unforgivably. Don't let your guilt that you didn't sort a night out cloud your judgment here.

Lurcio no offence taken. Without hijacking the OP's thread by going into detail about both incidents and the background of the relationships/marriage, I can't refute what you're saying, and you're entitled to your opinion. My point was that a one-off incident (if it is truly one off) does not make someone an abuser. A pattern of abusive behaviour makes someone an abuser, imo. Only the OP can know, if she looks honestly at her relationship and her DP's behaviour, which this is.

I don't want to detract from trying to help the OP by getting into arguments on her thread. And I don't see where sarcasm helps anybody.

It is most likely that the OP's partner will commit domestic violence again. He has shown he is capable of doing so, even though they have only been living together six months.

I don't understand why anybody would want to defend a man they have never met who has attacked their supposed partner in the way OP describes.

But crabby, this isn't just one incident. First he grabbed her really hard by the arm and dragged her from one room to another. Then he forced her against a wall. Then, 20 minutes later, he grabbed her again, pinned her to the sofa, and held his fist over his face.

StickAForkIn, Looking back now, I can't believe I did stay and that is my biggest regret, that I wasted my 20s on that person. I suppose that as the op has said, he wasn't always like that (but who would be, they're not stupid are they, they know if they were always horrible you would leave) I seriously used to think that I must have done something bad in a past life to deserve it, and I suppose I felt that it was my lot in life to be in that relationship, and I would just have to deal with it.
With the benefit of hindsight and more experience of life, I think that my parent's relationship had a bearing on it (they seem not to like each other very much at times, but have always stayed together)
Also, abusers obviously erode your self esteem and confidence over a period of time. I think he got me at just the right age (19) where my life was just about to open up, but I was still very naive.
I am also very loyal, but sometimes this loyalty is misplaced.
Also when your friends and family know and like someone and they don't know it is going on, I suppose I felt too ashamed to admit how I was being treated, and just kept my chin up and carried on.
I luckily did not have any dcs with him though.

Thankyou TheSpreading Sorry you went through that but glad you got away.

soggy like me you didn't really know what was meant by 'abusive' after all he hasn't actually hit you....when I posted here for the first time...I said I sound daft posting here and a fraud as ex has NEVER ever hit me. My reply was most cases the woman has never been hit but the THREATS etc that come with it to control you.

I was told to get Lundy Bancroft book Why does he do that....it is worth reading and cheap on Amazon. your situation is a 'classic' abusive situation, phone WA and ask them for their opinion!

Thanks, so am I

did you injure him when you hit him in the face?

if you knew he was making arrangements to have a nice night in, why didnt you remind him you were going out earlier on?

Camber I think she was frightened of the 'fuss' he would cause...and couldn't face it at a guess!

Mistletoe - why is it "most likely"? No-one can presume to know what OP's DP will do next. Yes, his behaviour was unacceptable but to in the one breath you are asking why anyone can defend a man they have never met and in the same breath you are completely vilifying a man you have never met.

Also, Lizzylou you are saying "you would wager he has been physical in the past with women" when there is no way any of us can know.

All we do know from the facts soggy has provided us is that she really needs to re-evaluate her relationship with her DP as it appears there are many cracks, not just this one incident she details.

Statistically, incidents of domestic violence escalate over the course of a relationship. Statistically it is shown that after a man has attacked his partner once, he will do it again.

It also seems most likely that the OP has left the thread since it has turned into an argument amongst posters - yet again.

Will leave you all to it.

OP has likely left the thread because the majority of posters have branded her DP an abuser who will abuse her again. Yes, her DP scared the life out of her but so is this thread!

I get really sick of this, really I do.

There are women on these boards who have, unfortunately, had to become experts on the subject of abusive behaviours.

They don't shout "leave the bastard" for a laugh you know!

Abusers follow very well recognised patterns of behaviour. You would be really amazed and astonished at how similar, whatever social background they come from, they use the same language, they say and do the same things. This has been shown, over and over and over again, by real research, by experts on the subject.

I would imagine that the h who only hit the partner once, is still abusive but in different ways, because it has NOTHING to do with anger, or violence.

IT HAS TO DO WITH CONTROL!

Posters do not HAVE to know every nuance of the relationship. There is enough information in the op to scream danger, abuser. There just is, whether the ignorant, (And I mean that in the best way, as in not knowing about this stuff) choose to believe it or not!

All of this because you dident go out with him it's a bit much isnt it. alarm bells are ringing in my head.

He was violent. Leave him.
Mind you, you hit him too, so he should also chuck you.

You shouldn't be with each other, that much is certain.

I think in situations like this people's advice often falls on deaf ears - in the nicest possible way. You are still with him, so you are condoning his behaviour. Which, I agree with everyone on here, was totally inapproriate, wrong, intimidating and indicative of a dangerous future. In my experience, once someone goes so far once they will go just a bit further the next time. And this will continue. Until suddenly without you realising what the HELL has happened your DP has just smashed your head into a wall. And I am talking from experience. I was with a lovely, funny, caring etc man years ago and we went down a slippery slope. Luckily we broke up before he really hurt me. And even when we broke up I still blamed myself for pushing him/annoying him etc. It was inly years after that I could see the situation with some clarity.
I do not want to scaremonger nor overreact to your situation, and I hate the idea that this would upset you. But the truth is my ex's violence started in exactly the same way. I still find it hard to describe his behaviour as domestic violence, because attaching myself as a victim of it seems so bizarre and alien to who I think I am. It wasn't massively dramatic, it was always in the heat of the moment - and it started with him dragging me about. I also hit him once, and he threw me under a table. He always demonstrated to me that he had the physical upper hand.

I think I am rambling. But I am TRYING to say: Please be careful. As wonderful and loving and funny as your partner may be - he is also stronger than you and he has made you aware of that. Trust me, most men never ever ever feel the need to do that, whatever their partners may have done.

Good luck.

Listen to SingingPrincess

I agree with Crabby and Wannabe. I think you've all jumped straight on the usual Mumsnet, he's an abuser leave him wagon.

There is nothing in what she's said that show him to be a habitual abuser. I think this was a one off incident that got out of control. I think they need to talk and set boundries.

When I first moved in with my husband, we had a fight that got out of all control and we both made mistakes. A combination of alcohol, stress of living together for the first time and some other issues got on top of us. We both knew we were wrong and we talked it out and set boundries for arguments. It has NEVER happened again (this was many years ago).

God it's annoying when you rarely get childfree time and your partner doesn't appreciate how important that is for you to spend together at times.

Imagine that you were walking down the street and a man grabbed you. He dragged you across the road, effing and blinding at you. he was hurting you. You were afraid.

If you responded to that by hitting out, in order to try to get him off you - would you be in the wrong? Would it be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other? Would people consider you 'equally violent'?

No. You would be someone frightened, being hurt, trying to get away. You would have nothing but sympathy and nobody would even think to suggest that you should not have struck out. I think the fact that you are in a relationship with this person makes no difference.

He was hurting you, he was dragging you about and he was verbally abusing you. You had the right to try to defend yourself in whatever way you could.

To suggest that you did not have the same right to protect yourself that you would if the man was a stranger to you is to buy into the whole 'it's a domestic, do nothing' attitude that would see police walk away from a house if the man was 'just' hitting his wife.

I agree with JustHecate; like in her posited "stranger" situation, you'd be quite entitled to respond with reasonable force. If it was unreasonable you'd be charged.

In this position, if he thought you were unreasonable smacking him in the face, he should have binned you rather than having another pop at you, which was completely out of order.

Incidentally Renard
" he is also stronger than you and he has made you aware of that. Trust me, most men never ever ever feel the need to do that"

Fairly few women are unaware of that, I would have thought, and lots of men show off to women who're their partners. Not usually by knocking them about, I'd hope.

I agree with Hecate too.

It's up to the OP what she wants to do, leave him or try to resolve things (or just carry on pretending nothing is wrong, though I don't recommend that one!).

Personally I don't think I could be bothered spending any time or effort talking or trying to work things out with a violent person like that, especially in such a short relationship. I've got no time at all for adults who behave like that. I'd rather just be single, or wait to find a nice boyfriend who didn't hurt or threaten me, or have tantrums over minor issues and misunderstandings.

Soggy - I think he had every right to be royally fucked off with you. You agreed to spend more time together as a couple in the New Year and you haven't made any effort to do that, he asked you to stay home (this once, he doesn't usually) & you said you would try to... but you didn't and you didn't even do him the courtesty of telling him that, just let him go along thinking you were going to stay home (he should have checked as well)... then landed it on him at the last minute. It sounds like you don't get much child free time and all the child free time you had before Christmas you spent with your friends - not much fun for him is it?

Although I think what he did was very wrong (grabbing you by the arm and dragging you into the other room), I can see why he was so pissed off and I would have forgiven him for that on the understanding that he never did it again...

However, the fact that 20 minutes later he was still at boiling point and went off on one again would scare me. I couldn't live with someone who physically frightened me like that.

Yes you hit him - but you hit him in self defence, he hurt you & frightened you out of anger and (for me) therein lies the difference and I wouldn't be waiting around to see how this escalated.