Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

OP I was just looking at Freedom programme...to join. Anyway the first thing it asked was....when you plan to go out with your firends does your DP
a. offer to babysit and hopes you have a great night
b. blah blah
c. blah blah
d. get all stroopy and cause a row which can lead to violence to ensure you don't feel like going out again

Weird that! Maybe you should do Freedom programme...to prepare you for your future relaionship.

You can either bow to popular opinion and boot him out now, or you can take the view that it's 2 strikes and you're out and if he does anything like this again, the relationship is over.

If you decide to opt for the latter I would suggest you invest in relationship counselling because if you are unable to resolve issues in a civilised manner, frequent arguments create frustration and set the scene for violent outbursts if either party is incapable of controlling their response to disagreements.

My primary concern is for your dc who, fortunately, were not present on this occasion, but whose lives will inevitably be adversely impacted if you are regularly arguing with your partner when they are in the home.

I kind of agree with wannabe in that I don't think that this is as black and white DV as others are seeing it. I think whether this is a) a pattern of abusive behaviour or b)a shocking but hopefully one-off instance of a row going much too far depends on one key thing:

OP has he ever before dragged you, pulled you or pushed you?

If he hasn't, then I don't think immediately assuming he is an abusive person is helpful. If he has been physical with you during rows before, then he's crossed the line already, and it sounds as though his behaviour is escalating.

The other key thing for me is that if you sit down with him calmly and discuss what happened, does he acknowledge that him dragging you by the arm was the thing that crossed the line, and that you lashing out (unacceptable though that was) was a reaction to being physically hurt and intimidated? If he's still blaming you for hitting him, rather than seeing that dragging you was completely out of order, then I think you've got a big problem.

It also sounds as though you've got some serious problems in how you resolve conflict in the relationship, especially if he's trying to control his temper by removing himself, and you are following and goading him further. Are you able to discuss and resolve issues when you're both calm, or do you only address problems when you're both angry and emotional?

How can '2 strikes and you're out' work?

The OP knows it will happen again so what's the point in waiting for it?

And what if the '2nd strike' seriously injures her, or even kills her?

And what if the '2nd strike' happens in front of her DC?

Great advice Izzy

I see what you are saying Izzy. But the second strike might not come till another few months down the line and then she has invested even more of herslef in him. I imagine he will be on his best behaviour for a few months now, long enough for this to have "blown over".
I don't get it. I really don't. I understand why women don't leave violent partners they have been with for years (by which I mean how hard it is for them to face up to it and find the strenght to leave) but why, when you are not married, only lived together for 6 months, no DC togther, why in that situation do women stay?
OP hope you are ok and still reading.

Hi OP, i have just read the thread. I hope you are okay. I just wanted to say how he behaved was totally unacceptable. So he bought wine (for some reason this seems to be the big justification here but i don't know why - it's not like it goes off or you can't drink it another time etc) and he was disappointed but this in no way justifies such irrational responses.

I feel you had nothing to apologise for - if someone was dragging me by the arm i would lash out too.

I grew up in a household like this and it is awful. My father never 'hit' me or mum but he intimidated us, screamed, grabbed, poked, pushed, threw things everything short of hitting. So he could say he wasn't violent and mum could say 'well he never hits us'. TBH the intimidation was the worst as was the build up. And yes mum did 'push his buttons'. The whole relationship was/is toxic (they are still the same in their 60's).

Is this the life you want? do you want children? Are you planning on talking to him about this again? If so do you want him to do something or are you hoping it will just never happen again?

Interestingly i left home at 16 and moved in with someone exactly the same. He would cause a row when i was going out with friends, punch holes in doors and rip out the bannisters, then he would want me to cancel the evening so he could make it up to me. The message was clear - it wasn't worth the hassle of going out and i lost contact with my friends.

I really do hope you are okay and you think very seriously about what you want to live with.

I lived with an abusive man, and he would ALWAYS apologise and ALWAYS admit that he was in the wrong. It didn't stop him doing it again and again for the next nine years though.

I agree somewhat with Izzy re the 2 strikes thing. It may be that soggy's DP will never ever be violent like this again. DV is such an emotive issue that most people tend to be overprotective (rightly so) and say "kick the bastard out" after one episode. This angle completely condemns anyone that has had a one off incident never to be repeated and which I believe are totally different to the serial abusers that are out there. In a drunken argument I once hit my DP so hard he fell over. I was mortified and have never done anything like this again and 15 years later we are happily married with 2 kids and never say a cross word to one another.

I also can see the point that wannabe and crabby are making. To me it seems that there are other issues in OP's relationship that need addressing such as why they don't ever spend any time together, they don't appear to be very good at communicating with one another and there are already arguments to which OP goades and her DP has to walk away from.

TheSpreadingChestnut Genuine question and no problem if you prefer not to answer. Why did you stay after the first time? Did you think it was a one off? In which case why stay after the second time? I try to understand, I grew up in a family where my mum was abused by my dad. I always asked her why she didn't leave, but by then it had been going on so long she didn't have the confidence. But she could never explain why she didn't leave the first or second time.

Timothy - hitting someone in a fit of rage is very different from what happened to the OP. Her partner didn't just smack her one and then apologise - he dragged her, forced her against a wall, threw her down on a couch and put his fist in her face. And it wasn't just a split-second thing either, there were twenty minutes between the first two incidents and the last. I agree that at a stretch one burst of anger might be forgiven, if the person was profusely apologetic right away and totally ashamed of their behaviour. But the OP's partner didn't apologise right away - she was trying to apologise to him and instead of apologising back he forced her against a wall. That isn't a momentary burst of anger, that's a sustained attack. It sounds like me like he did snap when he grabbed the OP, but then when he realised how scared the OP was and saw that she was afraid and apologetic he enjoyed the power and capitalised on it.

Gavin de Becker on domestic violence: The first time he hits you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer. Why people hang around to see if it gets better over time is beyond me.

He is just starting on the path of isolating you and intimidating you. Do not, under any circumstances, be one of next year's posters who is begging for help to get away from the monster he has become - after sliding neatly into this situation right now. Save WA a call in 2013, gather your self-respect around you and get the hell out of that relationship.

This man grabbed, intimidated, shoved, held and threatened to punch you, there is never any excuse for that, ever, no justification. Yes you hit him, but I'm sure everyone here will agree that was self defence while you were being dragged across the room. There were 3 incidents, 3!!!!!!!! over an extended period which escalated in the level of violence, all this didn't just happen within a 5 minute window of anger (even if it had there would still be no justification). This man is an abuser, he's just been playing the nice guy up until now. Do you think they all act like a shit from day one? NO, they lure women in by acting like prince charming and 99% of the time the violence doesn't start until after they have moved in, sometimes they can hold onto thier tempers for a year or more, but the halo always slips and by then the woman feels trapped, they groom you mentally and emotionally before the violence starts. They are always so sorry afterwards, then slip the 'BUT' onto the end and twist it to make thier behaviour seem less unreasonable or your fault. If someone is truely sorry they don't add an excuse after they apologise. Some cry thier hearts out, get on thier knees, beg forgiveness, promise it won't ever happen again... But it usually always does.

Honestly, many of us have seen this same sequence of events over and over... Unfortunately I was raised in a home with DV and out of all my female friends and relatives I would say 80% of them have been in an abusive relationship at some point. Absolutely horrifying.

It's almost the exact same story over and over, men like this almost follow a script... You get together, he's the nicest most amazing guy, treats you like a princess, adores you... You move in together, if you have kids, he's wonderful with them, you feel like he's the best thing sliced bread taking on a single mum and kids... Usually it starts with sulking, the odd sarky comment, huffs when he doesn't get his own way, you feel driven to please him, after all he treats you so well... Then one day a switch flips, you have rows, he makes you feel at fault, then more rows, sometimes it starts with throwing/breaking things in temper or punching walls/doors, other times it goes straight into shoving, intimidation, grabbing, pulling, pushing and then escalates from there. What you know of him up to now is a mask, a thin mask that hides a very volatile person.

Has he spoken of his ex's? Does he say they were crazy, psycho, they used him, they broke his heart, that all the problems in the relationship were thier fault? I'd bet he doesn't have many nice things to say about them?

This is the beginning of a cycle and the fact that you are making excuses for him and after telling what has happened you have started trying to show that he's 'normally a nice guy', shows that he has you right where he wants you. You are defending his disgusting behaviour! Step back and imagine your best friend or your sister telling you exactly what you have said here, what would you say? Would you say 'Awww but he's such a nice guy usually' or would you be worried for her future safety?

You have only lived together for 6 months! You should still be in the honeymoon period, having blazing rows let alone it getting physical is not normal.

Honestly, in your position I would throw him out and keep him as far away from me and my kids as possible. This is your chance to see the warning signals and get away :(

Out of the many occasions when women close to me have been physically abused by a partner, only one never had a reccurence after the first couple of times he hit her, but her partner was still a mental and emotional abuser after that which is just as bad :(

You should never ever have to be scared of your partner.

I hope you are ok OP, has he done this before? You need to think if you want to stay in this relationship what is there for you, is he normally controlling. You also need to work out if he is truly sorry and if you think he will do it again.

My DH hit me once 8 years ago and was truly sorry and has never hit me again so it does not necessarily mean he will do it again my DH hasn't and has never been verbally aggressive.

"The OP knows it will happen again so what's the point in waiting for it?"

How does the OP know that, mistletoe, if it hasn't happened before?

I have experience of unhealthy/abusive relationships. I've also been in two relationships (both of over three years) which were not abusive, but in which there was one incident where my DP crossed the line. In one, my DP grabbed me round the throat (I wasn't hurt, but was scared and angry), and in the other, my then DH shoved me, causing me to stagger and fall. They were one off incidents during rows, and did not indicate a pattern of abuse or that my DP/H was abusive.

That kind of behaviour is always unacceptable, but things aren't always black and white - there are shades of grey too.

Agree with crabby it is not always back and white

Having said that, OP, both incidents that I described occurred because the relationship was in serious trouble, and because our ways of addressing problems in the relationship were dysfunctional.

In my current relationship (7yrs, getting married soon), we don't row like I have done in past relationships. Sometimes we disagree, occasionally we argue, but we work things out calmly, without getting furious with each other. Partly that's his personality and how much calmer I am with him than I've been before, but mainly it's because we respect each other and don't want to hurt the other person with anger.

So whilst this incident in isolation may not mean that your DP is an abuser, all of what you've described does indicate unhealthy and dysfunctional ways of relating to each other.

Crabby, genuinely, I find it horribly sad that you don't class somebody shoving you, or grabbing you round the throat (even worse) as abusive behaviour.

get rid of this man and end the relationship, you are worth much more than the games he wants to play.

Sorry signed off too soon - also meant to say it's equally sad that so many women out there don't seem to think they deserve any better than putting up with any violence in a relationship, one off or not.

There are so many good men out there who would never dream of treating their partners that way. Why would anybody chose to settle for less? I understand that after many years invested in a relationship and children involved it can be horrendously difficult to leave, but in this case they've only been living together six months. He's not the father of the children so they can live without him - and so can the OP.

There has to be 2 sides to an abuser, 1 caring sweet lovely side to lure you in and then the nasty, manipulative, bullying side. They don't show their true colours until their feet are under the table and you trust them.......then the doubt in your mind creeps in and you brush it away thinking no they wouldn't do that on purpose, it was my fault because I did X,Y & Z, next time I will deal with it differently, eventually you end up walking on eggshells just to avoid it kicking off...........you will say to yourself it's because I'm hard to live with, no one else will love me if I leave, I shouldn't have done whatever.....he'll lash out, make you doubt yourself, he'll apologise say it won't happen again.........you won't arrange to go out with your friends because it's not worth the row's etc

Been there and done it, hope you don't decide to take the risk, it's been 10yrs since i left him and my head is still doubting itself at times.

Crabby, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but what your most recent post says to me is that you've had so many abusive relationships that you have no yardstick against which to measure "normal" - the ones with only one incident were not normal, they too were abusive, albeit a lower grade of abuse than you'd become accustomed to. I do you can break out of this cycle some time.

OP, this really isn't normal, nor is it 50-50. You flailed around in self defence, he engaged in two calculated acts of domestic violence. Please get his stuff into bin bags and have them ready to remove when he gets back from whereever he is at the moment. You can get the police to make sure he leaves peacefully if you're worried he may kick off.

Meant choose...

But that's my point mistletoe - the behaviour was abusive, but it occurred only once. Neither of those men were abusers, and neither relationship was an abusive one. I'm still good friends (15 yrs on) with the DP who once grabbed me round the neck, and I can assure you that he isn't abusive. Same with my exDH. My father and my first boyfriend, on the other hand...

Without the aid of crystal ball I can't see how the OP can know anything MAF but perhaps you are privy to information that she has not made available here?