Found a file saved on Partner's PC

[TwoPeasOnePod]

OK. This happened on 31st dec, been thinking about posting since then to get opinions, seeing as I can't seem to break out of the numb feeling to form one of my own. I am 25, have 2 DD's under 5 with my partner,been together about 7 years now. I am 29 weeks pregnant with our third child. We live together.

Looking through the files hes recently downloaded, whilst he was walking around in the background feeding kids etc,so I wasnt being sneaky, I noticed some general porn saved (an orgy one and a nurse-themed one) He knows it pisses me off, so I deleted them and had a bit of a whinge (not a HUGE deal to me, as our sex life is pretty non-existent due to my anaemia/seem to bleed easily after sex/hip pain)
so a 'normal' wank to a bit of vanilla porn is the best of a shitty deal to me, I feel I cant stop him using it.
Carried on randomly looking, and saw two quite different films saved that hes downloaded- one was titled something like hot german Teenager fisting, and the other was called Real Drugged Rape.
I clicked on it to see what the actual fuck it was, and as the title suggests, it appeared to me to be a young (18 to 20 at a guess) Asian woman in the back of a car, VERY drowsy/almost unconscious, being fondled/exposed/touched by some older man, filming on what appeared to be shaky handheld camera.

I skipped through it, saw a few seconds of the woman face down being raped etcetera. All of which is BURNED into my fucking memory. It pops into my head constantly, it is making me ill with stress.I felt like i was genuinley going to faint, due to shock i think, and utter, utter disgust. And I asked my partner to come and explain it. He said he "downloaded it out of curiosity" and when asked if he finds it in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER a turn-on, he vehemently denied that it is, likening it to watching executions etc that are real and available online (I didn't know he would watch that either!!) I didnt really look at the fisting one, but its the same category, relatively young woman being used and violated.

I said to him that even if the rape one isn't a film of a 'real' rape, the fantasy of raping a very young woman WHO IS FUCKING DRUGGED (or acting?! how the fuck can you know for sure) is completely wrong to me, as a mother if two DDs I cannot tolerate a person who would even look at it just out of curiosity, much less select it, download it, and then keep it. He apologised and said he is stupid, didnt 'think'.

Despite the fact he says he gets nothing sexual out of it, I am obviously not believing that. Why the fuck else would he download it? (thats a genuine question, I cant think of any other reason why, and the resulting congnitive dissonance is making me ill. I dont want to believe it is true, because it will make the imminent birth of my child etc very hard if Im alone.)

So, from a feminist point of view (am trying to use that as an approach to my life, have very low self esteem too) I am thinking I should remove him from mine and my DDs presence, I feel THAT strongly about it. He is otherwise a lovely-seeming person, a bit cold and robotic sometimes but funny, warm, and has what I would previously have described as vanilla tastes re porn, sex etc. He says fisting is normal? I didnt think so, but dont really know in terms of general acceptability.
He certainly hasnt tried to hide it as such,knowing I have free access to his PC, just dont use it. He didnt expect me to fidn it though.Also found that in the fortnight before Xmas he has joined a dating site and a 'sex in the UK' site. When I confronted him, he says it was curiosity again and he would never actually cheat, just clicked links and had a nosy.........

I feel like a total twat, due to give birth soon, and obviously at some point he is probably going to fuck me over. Current emotional situation is totally numb. I havent done anything or said anything conclusive to him about the whole thing because in the past I slept with someone else once, and so am battling with remaining objective. Because till now he hasnt put a foot wrong that I know of. I cannot believe how vulnerable he has made me feel.

Sorry for length of post but trying not to drip feed.

weedom Charbon was actually partially right in saying my friend is a 'man pleaser', as (dont like to say it but) she basically is, I have heard over the years small insights from her that make me believe she is not as 100% into porn etc as she makes out Yet she grew up in a male-led environment, her friendships are largely male and ones she made at uni, it just seems that she's had more exposure to porn and male attitudes to it than me for example. So she perhaps isn't the best person for confiding in for me right now, also she hasn't been in contact to check I'm ok since I emntioned it at first via text
Friends not an idiot though, and I have no idea if my exP 'hates the fact that women might enjoy sex', he's not seen much practical demostration of me enjoying sex recently

It's hard to remain impartial on forums for anyone I think even the most objective posts can have a 'wheat and chaff' element depending on how any individual looks at them.

Don't want to be needy with my friend though becasue she works a lot. Just magnified by the situation I guess, that support in real life is lacking. I've decided I can't involve MW/HV etc, it just isn't the way I go about things unless there's something wrong with the baby or similar, and obviously it's unrelated to that.

GU clinic is an excellent suggestion, I had been assuming he hasn't physically cheated but cannot prove that. I had checks done after I had cheated so know the procedure, and it sounds weird but having to go through that again whilst preg because of that dickhead will be yet another 'strengthening' source of anger towards him; as even now I find myself subconsciously thinking "what if we could get through this" and that is a hinderance to what would be best for me, ie. a clean break.

The GU clinic is a good alternative and will give you the understandable anonymity you need twopeas. However there were other symptoms you outlined upthread that I hope you've mentioned to your GP/consultant?

I'm not surprised by what you've said about your friend. As soon as you said that she 'sees me as a bit closed-minded about the issue' and had classified the dating site activity as 'more worrying' than rape, it was obvious that her relationships with women were competitive, hence my response. I don't think she's going to be much help to you here though, because I think she will try to persuade you that your infidelity was 'worse' because in the mind of a man-pleaser, denting a man's sexual ego is just about the worst thing a woman can do......

I also think it's poor friendship not to have phoned you or tried to see you, but maybe that has been a blessing in the circumstances.

Men who derive sexual satisfaction from watching what has been promoted as a 'real rape' have deeply dysfunctional attitudes to women's sexuality and combined with the other clues you gave in your early posts about how punitive he was about your infidelity, seeking to embarrass and shame you with family/friends and pestering you to have sex that you didn't want, builds a picture of a man who doesn't just think that women's enjoyment of sex is of no concern to him - rather it's that any evidence of it would be an impediment to the pleasure of someone you described in your first post as 'cold and robotic.'

As you say twopeas you have the intelligence to sift which opinions resonate and which don't - and the wisdom to question why some touch a nerve and make you think.

Others attack posts that might just be uncomfortably close to home...

How are you 2p's?

Have read the whole thread - I'm so sorry op.

For me the bottom line would be this: This is a man who finds it sexually exciting to watch a young woman being raped. Whether it is staged or not is irrelevant - the film was made to look as realistic as possible.

Is there any moving forward from that? I mean really? I feel so sad when I look at the posts rationalising and normalising it. We're rationalising away our most basic human values if we start telling ourselves that rape porn is in any way acceptable.

For what it's worth op I'm a single mother of three. Granted they are not all under five but they're all still fairly lively! Do you know what, it's fine. I had my own fears about how I was going to manage and they all turned out to be unfounded. I'm not going to pretend that every day is a picnic BUT I do know this: being a single parent is infinitely preferable to having three children plus an unhappy relationship to cope with. I truly am happier on my own. We're a proper family my kids and me, complete with all the love, laughs, outings, chaos, bickering and noise that you'd expect from a family of four.

If you decide to go it alone you'll be ok. Really you will.

Waves at Bossybritches I'm ok thanks apart from my 30-wks pregnant hips feeling like they are bowing under me

Makeyourown Nice post, and good to hear how happy you and your DC are, I guess once everything settles down, it is hardly a bad thing to be living with your glorious children, having removed a negative influence, even if it is scary that they fully depend on you!

I've just read the thread about how crappy the new 'relationship advice' section of Mumsnet is. so won't be looking at that, I'm gearing up towards a visit to the doctors to make enquiries about maybe having a bit of a chat with someone so I can order my thoughts better about the whole thing. The kids dad is still here, being absolutely nice beyond all possible niceness, which is quite scary to behold actually. But I've got eldest DD going to friends house tonight, a few bits planned for the w/e, small steps

Well done TwoPeas - I am glad you're feeling you're making small steps in the right direction. I was on my own with 2 DC's for 7 years before I met my DH. They were only 2 and 4 when I split with XP through too many reasons to bother to write (ooh I could maybe start a book tho ) Yes it is lonely at times but as Make says above If you decide to go it alone you'll be ok. Really you will.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you and DC's are getting on.

Hi, I've just finished reading a book called Prehistoric Sex (I know!!!!!) which was about exactly what it says - cave wo/men and their sex lives basically! The author says that what is commonly acknowledged today as the 'rape fantasy' held by men and some women stems from a historical hunter/prey relationship between the sexes.

Perhaps your partner has a rape fantasy and perhaps it is solely a fantasy? He isn't alone there - for sure. However, he made a decision to take his fantasy-world a step further into semi-reality by downloading images of the 'real' thing. Through leaving the file on the computer, you have had access to his (otherwise private) fantasy world. Which has been shocking for you and it's this move from fantasy to 'reality' that is the issue.

Some people play-act their private sexual fantasies all the time (from bondage to burlesque etc...) but it's mutally informed consent that is the key here.

The fact that you, and probably he, doesn't know whether it was an illegal video filmed with or without mutually informed consent is bad enough. If there is any doubt (ie: not from a authorized production company), he should have nothing to do with it and definitely not view or download it - and he should know that!

You could report - I'm sure the police monitor 1000's of videos everyday with similar or worse content, god forbid. I'm not sure they'd prosecute him.

Generally you seem to accept his other use of 'vanilla' porn (nurse, orgy etc..) but surely the line between 'vanilla' and 'non-vanilla' is grey area. Where is the cut off point exactly? It may be clear in your mind, but is it the same in his? What's vanilla to one person, isn't to another. Vanilla just seems to mean 'acceptable' and (legality being the cut off point) that's a variable.

Personally, the dating sites are a big worry, in my mind, it comes under actively seeking another partner. However, as a couple you have already had to go through that, from infidelity on your side. Perhaps, your affair is not so much in the past, in his mind, as you would like it to be. He may still have jealousy issues and maybe you owe him a little more understanding on this score.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning him, I'm just trying to put forward a different point of view.

Nearly all animals - and certainly apes - display the full range of sexual behaviours, including what we consider deviant sex. That doesn't make rape any more 'natural' or 'instinctive' than, say, necrophilia or sex on juveniles.

In humans, there's enough research showing that rape's about power & domination rather than sexual desire. You don't need some half-baked theory which discounts scientific knowledge to reinforce that. Maybe some women find it 'natural' for sex to involve being brutally assaulted, but few would call it normal.

Women's rape fantasies aren't really rape fantasies, as we know. The fantasy involves someone being totally overcome with desire. Like everyone else who's been raped, I can tell you the reality feels nothing like that - it's an act of hatred.

Surely the power / domination thing ties in directly with a hunter's relationship toward it's prey?

Whether all women's fantasies are about desire rape, or not (and we will never really know) as with any fantasy, the person fantasizing is in control, big difference from reality. So, for any sexual fantasy to be acceptably turned in reality, it has to have all people involved in it consenting / in control.

We can't control what our partners fantasize about, or edit their thoughts. I'm sure many women have been happily married to men who fantasize about all sorts of disagreeable things for years. PP's case is different cos he chose to make it her reality.

If you're happy to think of yourself as men's prey, go ahead. Just don't extrapolate it to everybody else, please.

alsteff talks about fantasies but that is not the same thing as actually downloading clips of real assault towards a real person.

V good point, sonic. Porn makers don't bother paying out for an actress to fake being drugged and raped, when they can so easily film the real thing

They even rape the actual actresses in Hollywood porn. Anybody who wants to think it's all pretend is either an idiot, in hopeless denial ... or lying.

With reference to my previous suggestion that your dp may be in need of education as to the true cost of porn and now that some of the dust has settled since you made your unwelcome discovery, TwoPeas, may I suggest that you read this well-researched article by Antonella Gambetto-Burke which may help you understand the insidious process in which the internet can erode moral values and ask your dp to read it with a view to discussing the content with you: www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=antonella%20gambotto%20cyberporn&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fantonellagambotto.com%2FPornographyCyber00.htm&ei=mn0ZT_aMFMjj8APkwL2hCw&usg=AFQjCNH3msFeQj5mnwF6kJGgiR1kaALhJA&cad=rja

I'm not sufficiently mumsnet savvy to create neat little links but neverthless it will only take you one click to view the content and a further click to enlarge the pages.

The article also makes illuminating reading for all who use the net for purposes other than accessing porn.

I would also suggest that the assortment of extracts on this page should also feature on your reading list:

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=antonella%20gambotto%20cyberporn&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisisawar.com%2FAddictionPornChild.htm&ei=5IMZT-ClAYHY8gP0yNzGCw&usg=AFQjCNEpad6GjdYseIQQbjHdnbF9lBjdfA&cad=rja

IMO the article by Catharine Mackinnon is essential reading for all adults.

If you read the thread alstef you'll see that it's already 'been there, done that' in terms of it having been established that there is nothing to report to the police.

With all due respect garlic, some women fantasise about being forcefully overpowered and raped by a man/men.

Our species is capable of juxtaposing base carnality with romantic idealism and, as fact and fiction and art can testify, our resulting fantasies are unbounded.

Yes but the point is Izzy that by virtue of fantasising about it, it means the sex is wanted. It turns the woman on. Possibly too much information here but I have enjoyed acting out scenarios with partners which have involved them pinning me to the bed and ripping my clothes off. Very exciting it was too. However the scenes from The Accused had me in tears and have been burned forever into my memory. I wish I'd never watched it. The idea and depiction of real rape absolutely horrifies me.

It is impossible for a woman to fantasise about really being raped. Because rape is by its very definition sex that a woman does not want and does not consent to.

I understand how you feel. But do you understand how men feel about porn, even quite advanced porn? They don't personalise it. He probably isn't a monster - though you'd have no trouble in getting up a lynching-mob against him if you so chose.

Again, minimizing.
So a film clip of what is probably real rape is only "advanced porn"?
The man might not be a complete monster, but he clearly has no empathy for women. It's shit how this thread has been derailed like this, posters going on how rape is natural and how all women totally like being assaulted. This is neither true nor helpful for OP.

How are you doing TwoPeas? I hope you are ok.

I don't consider it "duly respectful" to tell a rape survivor she has misunderstood the nature of rape fantasies. Those of us, who have been raped, have more cause than others to distinguish between a fantasy of overwhelming desire - or a role-play - from the real thing.

In the world of fantasy, legal definitions don't apply makey and it is not impossible or uncommon for women to fantasise about having non-consensual sex.

As for rape depicted on the big screen, films such as Straw Dogs and Clockwork Orange contained perhaps the first graphic images of rape made available to the cinema going public in 'glorious technicolour'.

They don't personalise it.

And this is a massive problem for men who are socialised from birth, to detach from their sensate function.

There ARE many men who do NOT get off on porn. They perhaps are the ones who are still in touch with how they feel....in their tummy's, not in some "outside in" twisty definition of the world.

... I respect the fact that there must be women who honestly do enjoy being assaulted with hatred. Whatever you can name, there's a human somewhere who enjoys it. But that's not what you were saying, Izzy and wombat. You were attempting to minimise/normalise rape. It was disrespectful to me, to other rape survivors, and to all men and women whose sexuality is positive and healthy.

EW How come you know know how "men" feel? Are you ALL of them?

Cross-posted with you, SP, just as I was thinking I should have said "whose sexuality is well integrated" :)

Yes, nail on head.

The account on izzy' link of the experience of the man descending into rape, illustrates the point well.

And that could have been my first h....a "normal bloke" to the rest of the world.