Think I have decided to forgive him for this, wondered if others would do the same

[kittyfishersknickers]

This happened a few months ago but is something I'm still thinking about. We were sleeping in the same bed but I had made it clear that I didn't want to have sex and he was fine with this. I was wearing pyjamas (well, leggings and top) to reinforce this fact. When we turned the light out I settled on my side facing away from him and after a few minutes he scootched across the bed and starting nuzzling me. I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on. He tried to take my leggings off but I told him this was annoying and to stop, same when he put his hand up my top. Even though I kept telling him not to, he held onto me quite firmly and started having sex with me. After a few minutes he could tell I was not really into it and stopped, but then lay there fidgeting and obviously not about to go to sleep as he was so frustrated, so I said he could carry on.

For a while he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong, saying that I hadn't used a special safe word we have used before, and that because I had let him at the end it validated the whole thing. I did see his point, although still wasn't that happy. But we talked about it again recently and now he admits that he was too pressuring and went too far. There was nothing violent about any of it and he is now very sorry he did it, and I think now actually realises what his actions could be called. At the end of the discussion he seemed pretty upset by this and so I told him it was OK.

Do you think it's possible to do something like that but really not intend it and to never do it again?

Pps It seems Kitty, however, didn't 'need' a safe word as they were not role playing in this way - which is even more worrying that he felt the need to implement one. Why??

P&S: I agree, there is something deeply unpleasant and creepy about this man's talk of 'safe word' when the OP had already said she didn't want sex and there was no discussion of them being involved in roleplay. I think he's trying to blur the boundaries between reality and fantasy so he can persuade the OP to do exactly as he wants all the time because it's 'just a game'.

Thank you everyone. I have booked time with a counsellor to talk it through. Are they allowed to give their opinions on things, or do they just guide you? In my past experience of counsellng I have got a bit frustrated that they do not react much to anything you say. I know it's probably in their training but it makes it feel a bit pointless.

It's good to know that I was right about the safe word excuse. I never really bought that but he was so insistent.

I think if he did it a lot I would leave, but if he did it again in a year's time, no I probably wouldn't. There are a lot of other, to most eyes more normal things, that he could do that would upset me a lot more. I would be more upset if he forgot my birthday. I don't know what that makes me, really shallow maybe. I could so easily just forget about this but I don't think I should.

I don't think you should either, kitty

I have no more to say on this without rehashing stuff and potentially upsetting you

I can see you think the "trade off" is worth it

Only you can square that in your own mind, and obviously we are not going to change your mind in that

I think something more will have to happen, for you to see the truth here

I really hope it doesn't, but I think it will

Good luck, kitty

Kitty, some counselling is very directive and some is very much about giving you space away from others' opinions to really hear what it is YOU want + to learn to trust yourself more.

Try psychodynamic, Gestalt, CBT etc if you want someone who will give you lots of direction and input.

speak to a rape counsellor....dont worry about the word rape in the name - just phone rape crisis and they will put you in touch with someone more specifically trained to deal with this exact stuff.

take care op x

dh response to this - a mans perspective, i hope you dont mind...
he asked what does it matter if he did it once, or does it 10 times?
he thinks you are trying to justify it to yourself.
he is amazed at what some women put up with, he said its awful that you think he can rape you but, not forget your birthday....and that you are ok with that.

i think you need to speak to a trained counsellor who deal specifically with this type of thing - rape crisis could help sort that out for you.

what ever you do op - i wish you best of luck. take care of yourself.

Good luck with the counselling, Kitty. That's great. Sometimes counsellors are there to help you realise and act on what you already know to be true. And that's why they try and help you reach conclusions on your own. I know I too, have found it annoying on occasion, in a sort of 'I may as well be talking to a cardboard box!' kind of a way.

I think the thing that's come across most powerfully is that you came here looking for guidance and reassurance from others as to what is 'normal' to put up with, you would prefer it if the counsellor maybe gave you concrete guidance and instruction and a big need in the relationship you have is to be 'looked after' or 'cared for'; so much so that you're prepared to put up with some pretty big caveats. It may be that someone along the way has left you feeling powerless or unguided in life.

You sound very smart, empathetic and caring, you've defended him at every turn. You too are strong and have the power to advise and protect yourself. In the meantime, maybe use counselling to help you realise that. The thing that no one ever told me that I wish they had is that there is a relationship out there where you don't have to put up with bad things to offset the good, where your birthday gets remembered and your body respected. Be happy and stop feeling guilty for feeling bad or even for not feeling bad! You're a good person and you've done nothing wrong. He is lucky to be with you. Many would be.

Yellow but the OP has already clarified that we're not talking about BDSM and there hasnt been any of that activity in her relationship. I'm sure she also said she actually did wonder why he'd introduced a 'safe' word into their relationship.

So for him to say 'but you didnt use the 'special safe word' sounds ridiculous and immature. In fact l could almost hear him saying it in a 'tweety pie' voice - sorry. To me it suggests he's got form for this behaviour and he's introduced this 'safe word' stuff for his own convenience and excuse to get past the word 'no' when he wants to.

Yes, for him to say that in that case they should have used it is ridiculous. Not denying that at all.

I think I didn't recognise it as something really bad because out of my two other partners, one got frustrated with my lack of sexual enthusiasm and thought we didn't do it enough (probably just typical overeager teenage boy - we were 18 when we broke up), with the other one I agreed to have sex even though I didn't really think it was a good idea, and he didn't pay any attention to how nervous and ambivalent about it I obviously was and just did it anyway. So in comparison, over time, he is massively more considerate and caring than either of them (just not in this one instance).

My counsellor lists 'sexual abuse' as one of the areas in which she is experienced so hopefully this will do?

I think you did recognize it as something really bad because it is still bothering you months later.

Good luck with counseling; I hope it brings you peace and clarity. (and yes, if your counselor lists sexual abuse as an area of expertise then she sounds qualified to deal with your concerns)

I would think that counsellor should be suitable. However, having had a very bad experience with an atrocious counsellor myself, I would advise you to keep an open mind for the first few sessions and to stop going to him/her if you feel he/she isn't really listening to you or is being overly judgemental about any aspect of your life. It's important that you feel totally comfortable with your counsellor and that you feel you're benefiting in some way from your sessions. If you don't feel that then find someone else, you will soon find someone who is right for you.

This is just an observation that might be way off but it seems to me that you don't have a great template for relationships. Perhaps you have internalised the idea that you "owe" men sex in return for a good relationship? No matter how much sex a man is getting he should still be kind to you and treat you well. You absolutely do not have to have sex with anyone if you don't want it, no matter whether you're in a relationship or not.

Good luck Kitty

slightly different situation but my ex was horribly abusive to me...he would call me names and scream and shout...I was scared of him.

After an 'episode' of abuse he would try to make things better by having sex with me..'make up sex' he used to call it. The last thing I wanted to do was have sex with him but I was scared to say no in case it started him off again so I would give in..It was rape..

What I'm trying to say to you is rape doesn't mean rough abusive holding you down menacingly sex...sometimes you can agree but still have been raped iyswim?

I really hope it will help you to talk to someone and to be able to get all of your feelings out in the open to help you decide what is best for you and your future....

good luck x

I could so easily just forget about this but I don't think I should.

I don't think you should either.

But I also don't think you can 'just forget about it' as easily as you say. This happened a few months ago, and it is still playing on your mind. That's because a part of you knows that it was very,very wrong, that it is a warning flag, that this isn't normal, or a one-off, or something that can be explained away, despite his best efforts to minimise it.

Your instincts are warning you, and they won't let it go. You should always listen to your instincts, - they are picking up on subconscious clues and are way smarter than you are about dangerous situations.

Sounds perfect and good luck with talking to her, remember she's there for you so you can say whatever you want. Sounds like your partner compares well to your other two boyfriends in certain ways, maybe you're over-estimating him just because the comparisons are not so good!

The truth is Kitty, if you're in your 20s, as I suspect maybe you are, it's not unusual to have a relationship with an older guy and to find that such a relief after the immaturity and insecurity of 'boys'. Putting up with the sort of stuff we're talking about it too much, really. Older guys go for younger girls for lots of reasons, sometimes, subconsciously because they enjoy feeling big and powerful and older and the girl basks in feeling safe, protected and respectful.

I've done it, hell most young girls I know have done it. But listen to me, this is not the man you'll spend the rest of your life with. It isn't. So what you do with that is up to you. You've already got a little but of a sick feeling in your stomach about it. When you reach a stage where you're not happy, you feel trapped and you've outgrown him (and I'd bet everything in my pockets you will soonish) LEAVE. Don't worry about how much it hurts him. It's okay. Everybody goes through it. Suddenly the big guy becomes the broken child and you feel too guilty/scared to leave him when he's vulnerable etc etc and you've already said how him getting upset makes you freak out and backtrack, like there's a part of you that's a child who's upset an authority figure and just makes to want it okay. This is classic young girl older man stuff. There's nothing wrong with you being upset, there's nothing wrong with you not being upset, there's nothing even wrong with being with someone older necessarily, but most importantly there's nothing wrong with you.

Just see it for what it is, take what you need. And when you're ready, give yourself permission to go.

what you say resonates so much, tessa

I hope OP listens, and absorbs

even if she files it away for the future, that it goes in

I echo what tessa says.

Never forget that you have a choice and you don't actually need a reason to leave a relationship. You are at perfect liberty to walk away from any relationship you want, whatever anyone else thinks, even if the person is perfectly nice, let alone if there are a few red flags every few months.

OP - really glad you've found a counsellor to talk it through. Your story has been on my mind since I first read it. I think there are some really wise words posted by many people, I don't have any more advice and feel underqualified to advise given the very real experiences others have shared so I will just encourage you to try to absorb what you can and to take care.

Thanks, I promise I will take it in. Have reread the thread several times. I still feel at the moment that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages - he looks after me more than anyone else ever has.

I know it sounds awful but it's true that I would rather he did that than forget my birthday. I still don't feel much about it. Maybe that will come.

Sweetheart, I think you need to examine why you feel you need to be "looked after"

You're not a child. You're a grown up woman. Why do you feel you need to be looked after? Do you think you can't look after yourself? If it's your man's role to look after you, what is your role in return for that looking after?

These are questions you might want to explore with a counsellor.