Face slapping during

[Allabitmuch]

Am a regular but have name changed for this.

Have recently started seeing someone after a loooong time out of the game. Things seem to have changed a lot since when I was last single (am in my mid-thirties.)

This man is (as far as I can know seeing as I've only met him fairly recently) kind, considerate respectful and fun. I like him although I'm remaining fairly circumspect - it's very early days and I don't really know where I'm hoping things will go yet.

The thing is, he has expressed an interest in slapping my face during sex. Now I'm not really a strictly lights off vanilla type of woman. I'm happy to experiment and try new things, but this is definitely pushing at the very edges of my boundaries I have to say. I'm not sure.

And I guess my question is, is this normal sexual practice these days? Things seem to have changed so much. When I was last single and dating, no man ever expressed an interest in ejaculating on a womans face - now all men seem to desire this. Does this preference of his suggest a secret liking for sadistic porn to you? A lack of respect maybe? Or is this just a harmless thing that lots of couples like to do?

Your thoughts would be much appreciated, thanks.

I think the issue in this thread, and people are not going to back down and admit it. Is they got swayed by the BDSM tag. Saw it as an attack on the "fetish" and couldn't wait to say how hysterical and ott all the mundane vanillas were. I'm talking several posters.

Funny thing is that I and several other posters, didn't even have the BDSM thing register. You could just see from op's tone and the things she was saying, there was more uncertainty than she was letting on. Can't say how, I just knew. It wasn't the actual act, more her feelings and understanding. Her unhappiness at the situation hadn't even registered on most peoples radar until the last post. They were to fixated on pushing BDSM onto the prudes

Yet finally op reveals she is quite unhappy with it all and feels she needs time out to think. You STILL have people with their own fetishist agenda trying so make the whole thread about BDSM. Rather than the op's feelings.

Jesus.

Proles - I am stunned that needs pointing out too. How about teachers wanking over 'school girl barely legal' porn? That fine too is it?

Well I must be an abuser then as I have 'slapped around' consensually a lot of people in my time although this has mainly been with men (is that ok then?) . I have been slapped around. I really resent people assuming it is because I am a victim of something that I have chosen to indulge in these sorts of sexual activity or that I am some violent abuser because I perpetrate such acts. It is over simplified and ridiculous to lump in all sorts of subtle behaviours that can be about pain, sadism, masochism and dominance and submission and one fucked up bunch - it is sometimes my thing being a bit sexually sadistic (and lots more beside). I am also a Mummy, a wife and a church goer, contribute to my community etc etc - considered to really be a nice lady by most people (i think)

I cannot see what my sexual preferences (and they do change according to the partner I am with) have to do with my moral and ethical stand in the rest of my life. There are without doubt some fucked up bunnies on the s and m scene for sure but there are some fucked up bunnies outside of the scene too who often open themselves up to all sorts of emotional and physical abuse form partners

I have also been the victim of horrible domestic abuse from my first husband - it is not the same, it is not the same at all. Not even close.

I was into pervery a long time before I was in a Dv situation - and have been into pervery afterwards so I do feel that I am clear about my psychological motives - eg. that I am not inflicting pain for instance because I have had pain inflicted/not re-enacting dv is submissive/masochistic.

In my experience there are a good deal more men that want to be dominated than women funnily enough - this is no evidence based just my own experience.

Bubbles, I don't think that's fair, tbh. Lots of people apart from you picked up on her unease from early on in the thread.

What went on to happen though, was that then some people got a little bit defensive about their own preferences, or anxious to prove that they were so open-minded about BDSM that their brains fell out.

That's exactly what I meant Lebof.

Bubble - You have a very, very different take on how this thread progressed to the one I have but I do agree that all this discussion about the ethics of certain sexual kinks is not especially helpful to OP. But that is an admonishment that applies equally to both sides of the duscussion.

So tell me, if the boot were on the other foot here would you consider me a violent abuser?

Genuine question

It is such a grey area re: the whole analogy thing as regards professional and sexual lives - because the professional stuff is a reality, the role play stuff is fantasy. What my dp and I get up to is between us - I wouldn't let anyone else do or say the things he does - it's part of how we relate to one another, but no one else.

LeBof I know my dp would like me to dominate him, but I cannot bring myself to do it - I'm too self conscious and it just doesn't feel very me sexually. I prefer to be the dominated party . That said, I'm not of the face slapping variety.

I think that that's another thread, as Jeremy says, pinky.

I agree vile. Some people like BDSM, some don't. Some like role play, spanking, anal, ejaculation, swinging, threesomes, heels, dressing up, date play, eating, smoking, water sports, vids, pics, no underwear, etc etc.

I may have missed quite a few, but you get the idea! Each to their own.

I guess my issue here. Is so many people like you say have focussed on the act, rather than op.

Personally I think his job and preferences, raises a big huge red flag. But more so how the op was talking herself really.

The role play stuff is not fantasy. You are really doing it. Fantasy is imagining doing it.

Bubble - take away the (many) posts that asked op to look at why she felt uneasy, to trust her instinct, why she felt she should seek confirmation about whether this was 'normal' or not, and all you have left is people focusing on the act, but not just from those who are apparently trying to force bdsm down other peoples throats (!), also from those who see 'the act' as being indicative of an abusive mindset. Its just the way the thread evolved.

I get your distinction AlwaysWild, I suppose I'm thinking out loud and exploring my thoughts really...but you aren't actually doing it-doing it for real, even though you are doing it - there's a grey area. I am making no sense, but I know what I mean. In a sexual setting, say dp puts me over his knee and calls me a whore, that would be more than fine. If I'm making a stew, he strolls into the kitchen and falsely accuses me of shagging Dave from accounts, slaps me and calls me a filthy whore - that's not fine. Context is everything. But my dp does not work with vulnerable women, so it's not a philosophical/ethical/moral minefield we have to explore.

In a sexual setting, say dp puts me over his knee and calls me a whore, that would be more than fine. If I'm making a stew, he strolls into the kitchen and falsely accuses me of shagging Dave from accounts, slaps me and calls me a filthy whore - that's not fine. Context is everything

That's it Ginlet really, in a nutshell

Yes that is indeed how you can make sense of it. Been there. It is real though.

AlwaysWild - noone has said that any of this is 'fine'.

But there is a vast difference between subjecting someone who hasn't consented - or can't do so - to an act of violence or abuse, and requesting that someone engage in 'role play'. But not making them do so or trying to coerce them into doing so.

If a school teacher (or anyone else) gets off on porn that's made using coerced participants, then of course no way is that acceptable. Period. Very clear and obvious.

Sorry if I've missed something on this thread, but I don't think we know in what capacity this man does in fact work with abused women. So the idea that he's wanking over disturbing accounts of real life violence is pure conjecture.

And role play is not abuse. Role play stops when anyone involved wishes it to do so.

Plump - I didn't say anyone has said it is all fine. Why are you attributing it to me?

My example was 'school girl barely legal' porn. I very deliberately left issues of coercion out of it. So we can park the coercion issue that seems to be confusing some, and say is it OK for a teacher to watch 'school girl barely legal porn'? This is not children, they get adults to make it if they look young enough.

I think the OP raised some very interesting points about (possible) differences between dating and sex now compared with the past. There definitely are differences, if what my late teens/eary twenties offspring tell me is anything to go by.

Sorry, to go back a couple of pages but am just catching up with the thread.

I can see there would be differences between generations, but unless you start dating someone who is much much younger than you, then it shouldnt really be something that affects a relationship, because the person you are seeing is of the same generation as yourself. That doesnt necessarily mean they have the same preferences of course, but hopefully I am making sense..

That's what you seemed to be saying in your 12:59 post, AlwaysWild. Apologies if misunderstood.

I'd contest the idea that very young porn actresses aren't often coerced, actually - but again, that's a very different issue from what this thread is about.

That aside - and if you believe that 'school girl' porn is in fact created using 'happy', independent actresses, freely contracting to do the work, etc., etc., (which I should imagine many men using this porn tell themselves is the case), then no, I don't think would be such a big deal if a school teacher used this porn. There's a world of difference between a cartoonish, imagined world and every day work responsibilities, just as there's a huge difference between what young women are portrayed as in porn and real young women.

The fact that people have rich fantasy lives does not mean that they can't do their jobs properly or can't disctinguish between fact and fantasy.

*Disclaimer: I have serious reservations about how porn is made. On that basis I'd be concerned about men enjoying 'barely legal' porn.

How is it different Plump?

Many are concerned here, that the op was being coerced.

The way she was speaking, questioning, staunch defending, before she actually said, no this isn't right.

That was the whole point behind people posting on this thread for many. Nice guys can, be charming, wonderful, exciting. Doesn't mean they aren't coercing you into a situation or practice that you feel uncomfortable with. Trying to normalise it for you.

It is an abusers tactic. You don't know which way is up and for some reason, you just don't feel like you can say. As they are asking you after all, they are being "nice".

I know you and others are very sure that the op wasn't being coerced and he was some misunderstood good guy.

Other people thought very differently, that it sounded by ops words, he probably was exerting some coercion there. So it is relevant.

I think that the point of having a rich fantasy life is that it is drawn from both the real and the imagined, thereby enriching both people's everyday experiences and their inner lives, thus making them a more complete person.

I don't really understand this definition of fantasy where people can work with children and then have a fantasy about having sex with children. Or how they can have a fantasy about abuse but find actual abuse very distressing. Surely the details of the actual move over into the fantasy? Otherwise, how is it that people make pornography Nazi Germany and other atrocities? I don't see how such fantasy can be created without people hearing about actual human distress and thinking of that is sexually gratifying. So it is difficult to see how somebody can have a job that involves hearing tales of distress and keep that entirely separate from their sexual interests. The two must have some shared space in their mind.

Plump - indeed I would argue about coercion in that situation. I suggested parking it, not because I don't think it's coercive but because people are missing the point of the analogies and focusing just on coercion.

I would disagree that it is ok for a teacher to look at images that represent school children in porn.

I know you and others are very sure that the op wasn't being coerced and he was some misunderstood good guy.

Have you read the first few pages of the thread, AlwaysWild? I think you will find otherwise of you do.

And the world in porn is not imagined. They are real people really doing these things.