Should I let my children see my paedophile FIL?

[FiremanSamsFireEngine]

I hope you can help me with this awful situation. Over 3 years ago, when I was pregnant with our first child, my husband and I discovered that my FIL had been arrested for downloading thousands of the most serious levels of child pornography, systematically for over a year. He plead guilty and was convicted. My DH was shocked and devastated as you can imagine, and I didn't ever want to see him again, and certainly not let our children (we have now had 2 kids) ever have any contact. At the time my husband said that our children would never have to have any contact with him.

Our children have never met my FIL, and my husband has limited contact with his family. 3 years on and my husband now wants our children to attend gatherings of his extended family where his father will be present. He no longer wants his father airbrushed out of our lives.

I am freaking out. I don't see what good it will do to introduce our children this man. It goes against every single one of my instincts to protect them - physically and emotionally. As they get older (they are 3 and 2) they will start to ask more and more questions. I don't know how I will be able to answer why they don't see their grandfather often, why he doesn't touch them (over my dead body) when they see him. What if they go to embrace him? etc etc... It's just going to get more and more complicated and horrible.

A paedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children, not just someone who assaults children. He has demonstrated a seriously dishonest nature (he managed to keep his obsession a secret, even from his wife, for over a year). I do not want our children to have contact with someone like this. It will just get more and more emotionally complicated for everyone.

Me and my husband have been at loggerheads over this for some time. I have finally agreed that we'll attend a family gathering next week and the kids will be introduced to the FIL, but with strict ground rules. Just an introduction: "this is Daddy's daddy", no physical contact, and that this is not the start of some sort of reconcillation. I feel sick about it, and am very worried I am doing the wrong thing in an attempt to make my husband happy (he has acknowledged he is only doing this for himself, not for the kids).

What would you do? Could you imagine yourself ever agreeing to this?

I won't be able to check this forum until tomorrow night, but hope I can get some sense from other people (due to the shameful nature of this I have been unable to talk to friends about it) and will be able to reply then. Thanks in advance

I am glad posting on here has backed up your very correct instincts to never let him near your dcs.

Your SIL letting him having access to her own dcs, AND being the owner of a nursery is quite shocking IMO. I would be reporting her as a parent, and as a nursery owner (who ought to bloody well know better).

RE Nursery: You could perhaps call the early years safeguarding team in your area and ask them for advice without naming her, then asking who you should take your concerns to.

RE: Family POV, I would be contacting SS. Stating what he had been convicted of (that he had looked at the worst kind of images) and that she is minimising this and is in a state of denial and that you are deeply worried for her dcs who she is allowing access too. I too have experienced abuse in the same room as other members of my family which is why I wouldn't even breath the same air with my child and a paedophile.

I'm assuming SIL is his daughter? It may well be that her boundaries are skewed from growing up with him as a father. I too agree a man doesn't get to this age and then wake up one morning being aroused by children.

I fully agree (and I am a professional in the Child Protection field too), that you need to alert Social Services re your SIL allowing him access to her child. You can do it anonymously, but you need to do it, now.

Just catching up on this thread from overnight and not happy at how my last post sounded. Just to clarify, I meant that I have a certain level of professional experience relating to child abuse rather than just ill-informed,knee jerk personal opinions. Those survivors who have posted on here can talk with far more authority than me, I would trust their judgement far more than mine.

Having said that, anyone with a modicum of common sense and even a basic understanding of how child abuse/paediphilia works( even without personal/professional experience) would be agreeing with the unanimous sentiment on this thread too.

In short, it's not being "hysterical" to completely disagree with your DH.

Maybe the SIL was abused too, which is why she seems able to 'normalise' it.

It is an interesting, though very sad, observation that the survivors of abuse who have posted here suffered a lot more if their parents were not "hysterical". Namely, if their mothers brushed it under the carpet, told them it happens to everyone, and most particularly took no action against the perpetrator, they are still traumatised by it decades later. When it is acknowledged that something bad happened, when even if it is too late to prevent the abuse the parents show a protective instinct, where they do go for "petty knee-jerk revenge" etc, it's much easier for the child to come to terms with. My guess is because there is no aspect of betrayal if someone you don't know or don't care about does something horrible to you. The horrible thing happened, maybe you'll never forget it, but you can parcel it up in your mind and consign it to history along with falling off your bike and your cat being run over. But when your parents fail to support you - worse, collude, or worst of all, are the perpetrators themselves - that is the ultimate horror. Not being able to trust your own family to protect you leaves you alone, at an age when you most need to feel safe. How can you trust anyone if you can't trust your own parents? Who will ever believe you if your own family don't?

Note also how many have said they didn't know what was happening but they knew they didn't want it to happen and how bad it made them feel afterwards, even in the absence of any physical damage. Let anyone dare to try the argument that children wouldn't mind or wouldn't remember if only grown-ups didn't get hysterical about it. They remember it and they remember it was bad. But then they're told no it's all right really, or even that they deserved it, and grow up with that massive gap between what they know to be true and what they have been told by the people they are programmed to believe. And it hurts.

Marie

This had crossed my mind too. The DH's reaction could be based in fear of exposing horrible memories for all the family children that are now adults. Essentially FIL is still grooming them to carry on covering up his sick tendencies.

I would absolutely be in touch with Ofsted regarding your SIL and the nursery.

As others have said - what if FIL pops in to see her at work? She clearly doesn't think that it's a problem for him to be around children despite his crimes. I'd hit the fucking roof if my DD was being cared for by someone who thought that it was perfectly acceptable for a convicted paedophile to be around children.

I would not trust OFSTED not to downplay this or cover it up. After all, they have regulated the nursery and presumably given the nursery - and the SIL - their full blessing to operate.

I would go straight to the local papers.

Wasn't that Vanessa George woman.... Who worked at a nursery. Using the kids at the nursery as "additional fodder" for a known peado. That she was besotted with, so boundaries became blurred.

Don't get me wrong she was evil. But to some extent she was "picked" for her easy access to kids and the ease at which she could be manipulated.....

This thread is like that mark2 fucking scary. Papers would have a field day, after the George case.

Marie Ofsted may well not be aware of the situation so wouldn't have any reason not to think anything might be amiss. A quick phone call to them will at least bring it to their attention.

Personally I wouldn't see going to the local papers as the right way to go.

Ordinarily, I would agree that the local papers is not the right way to go. However, I think it would be the quickest way to have this situation looked into.

I would contact ofsted, social services AND the police

Actually this is really playing on my mind. The whole Vanessa George thing. Where she was picked and groomed by a certain man, due to the very nature of her access to children in a nursery and how easy it was to manipulate her.

May they all rot in hell.

The fact he is a registered sex offender, she is allowing access to her own children. She works with children. The whole family including her, is trying to hush this up, downplay it. He is doing a good job of grooming, I'd say.

This is very, very, very dangerous. Not only is it dysfunctional. The family are ripe for grooming and abuse. Not only is he getting access to her kids, next step could well be..........she has got access to a whole nursery full!! Why would she be bothered? After all she does not see the threat does she...........

I would be on the phone to SS, Ofsted and the police as a matter of urgency. Not only could her children be at risk, so could the ones in her care at nursery. She is close to a known sex offender after all........

I know this is scary as it could blow the whole family apart. But needs must op. Maybe it will give them the bloody wake up call they need. SS will definitely, definitely be taking a very big interest in the situation, with regards to the family children.

Maybe the stupid cow might wake up, when it becomes wider knowledge.

You have all this information to hand. I know it will be hard, and annoy your husband. But you know the score here, so I feel you have a duty to step in and report it, to protect all these kids.

FiremanSamsFireEngine I hope you don't mind, but I have sent you a PM.

Anniegetyourgun I wouldn't exactly put child abuse in the same category as falling off a bike :) but I totally agree with the rest of your post. I have spent far too many hours wondering how much happier my life would've been if suspicions had been acted on at the time, or even if mum had let me press charges in my teens (which would've been pointless, tbh, there was no evidence as he only ever admitted it to my gran, but they still should've supported me through it). How much more cared for and protected would I have felt? Even though it still would have happened, I could have dealt with it so much better and probably not spent my 16th birthday in a psych ward.

It was the lack of anger that got me. Not once did mum say she was angry at him, or that she hated him, or that she'd never forgive him... She only gave excuses. Did you know having M.E. and your parents divorcing create such a terribly traumatic childhood that you are bound to abuse a little girl?

Oh, and OP please report your BIL to SS too. I was under the impression that the reason for the Register was to help people keep their children away from the people on it, and they are actively going against that. SS really need to know about it, please, you aren't going to be able to persuade them to change their mind but maybe SS can.

I mean what the fuck to they think, that just because their baby is family it will be exempt from FIL's perversions? No, she will be MORE at risk as he knows he can get away with it.

At court my insane MIL asked me to go over and kiss FIL "to make him feel better. He needs to know you love him".

That is the creepiest thing I've heard on here in a long time.

Mother in law thinks that she can make him feel loved by getting someone else to kiss him.

Your poor DH is in a terrible situation. This is his mother and father and it must be so hard for him. But it may be that once he makes a stand it will give the others the strength to come over to your side. He need not lose his whole family over this.

Bossy I am sure you're right and that it's much more of a grey area than I've made out...I'm struggling to get my head around a loving, decent father wanting to expose his children to that. It makes my stomach turn and the fact that OP was backing down and allowing it - he must have done some arguing to get her to eventually agree to it. He just comes across to me as someone who doesn't give a shit about his children as long as he's happy and getting what he wants.

Most likely I'm wrong but I very often am! :)

newbie - it's a scenario we're all struggling with I'm afraid.

It's interesting though that the FIL has groomed his family to the extent that the OP was even questioning her maternal instincts, & when she was backed up by the rest of us confirming her thoughts she got her resolve strengthened, thankfully.

I think your assessment of the FIl is correct & on re-reading the OP's last update, it makes my blood run cold at the thought that his daughter allows him such close contact with her own DC's let alone potentially other peoples in her care.

It does sound like the FIL is very powerful and controlling, with the MIL doing his bidding. But OPs DP is caught up as a son, he needs as much help as OP in getting the strength to fight him.

Sorry Ponty - er, how about a very bad bike accident with broken bones?

Seriously, you have my every sympathy and admiration. You are tremendously brave.

I don't feel that brave anymore TBH - I'd love to yell at tell my parents just how much they let me down but it ain't gonna happen.

OP I hope you and DH are coming to an agreement and you are reporting the relevant people.

Any updates FiremanSam ?

Hope you are all OK.