Should I let my children see my paedophile FIL?

[FiremanSamsFireEngine]

I hope you can help me with this awful situation. Over 3 years ago, when I was pregnant with our first child, my husband and I discovered that my FIL had been arrested for downloading thousands of the most serious levels of child pornography, systematically for over a year. He plead guilty and was convicted. My DH was shocked and devastated as you can imagine, and I didn't ever want to see him again, and certainly not let our children (we have now had 2 kids) ever have any contact. At the time my husband said that our children would never have to have any contact with him.

Our children have never met my FIL, and my husband has limited contact with his family. 3 years on and my husband now wants our children to attend gatherings of his extended family where his father will be present. He no longer wants his father airbrushed out of our lives.

I am freaking out. I don't see what good it will do to introduce our children this man. It goes against every single one of my instincts to protect them - physically and emotionally. As they get older (they are 3 and 2) they will start to ask more and more questions. I don't know how I will be able to answer why they don't see their grandfather often, why he doesn't touch them (over my dead body) when they see him. What if they go to embrace him? etc etc... It's just going to get more and more complicated and horrible.

A paedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children, not just someone who assaults children. He has demonstrated a seriously dishonest nature (he managed to keep his obsession a secret, even from his wife, for over a year). I do not want our children to have contact with someone like this. It will just get more and more emotionally complicated for everyone.

Me and my husband have been at loggerheads over this for some time. I have finally agreed that we'll attend a family gathering next week and the kids will be introduced to the FIL, but with strict ground rules. Just an introduction: "this is Daddy's daddy", no physical contact, and that this is not the start of some sort of reconcillation. I feel sick about it, and am very worried I am doing the wrong thing in an attempt to make my husband happy (he has acknowledged he is only doing this for himself, not for the kids).

What would you do? Could you imagine yourself ever agreeing to this?

I won't be able to check this forum until tomorrow night, but hope I can get some sense from other people (due to the shameful nature of this I have been unable to talk to friends about it) and will be able to reply then. Thanks in advance

Kerry - re the ROOM - mine too - unbelievable

Ponty -x

OP - he called us "Hysterial women" ?

I suppose it is easier for him to dismiss us as hysterical women than to admit his father is a paedophile and a possible danger to your children

Exactly HecateGoddess - or that he is too selfish to put the safety and RESPECT of his children before his own selfish wants? Because that's what it boils down to doesn't it? He should have enough basic respect for his own children to not expose them to this man. To not even give him access to any part of their lives. You can't be cured of being attracted to a child anymore than you can be cured of being attracted to an adult. I hope he has read this and is thoroughly ashamed of himself.

If he's not I really think OP needs to consider what she married!

Newbie-I don't think it's that simple, although I agree that's what it seems at first.

It's not a case of him KNOWING the situation is wrong & STILL wanting to expose his children to it. He obviously has been brainwashed by his father & the rest of his family that "it is all over" & it is a thing to be forgiven & forgotten, like a youthful indiscretion.

( That's what these bastards do to their families to enable them to carry on.)

Because Mr OP is desperate to cling to that belief, however misguided, he is blocking out his wife (OP's) rational arguement. He & his family are in denial about the way paedo's work & re-offend, because this is DAD we're talking about-powerful emotional crap going on there.

It occurs to me also that maybe Mr OP has unhappy childhood memories, is he in denial because his father tried it on with him?

Who knows, I just think it's all very sad & the OP has an awful dilemma on her hands, as she KNOWS there is only one rational course of action.

Thanks to everyone for posting. I am so sorry this has brought up so many bad memories and pain for a lot of people. However, I am SO glad I posted on here to get some (serious, 100%) reinforcement for what my instincts were already saying. Thanks to all of you I am now absolutely rock steady in my belief that FIL will never play even the smallest part in my DCs lives. I will never be challenged on this again. However I will now have to deal with the concequences of this in my marriage, and help DH to see that, no matter what the rest of his family are saying, it will never be OK for FIL to see them.

He is being ostracised by the rest of his family (aunts and uncles, brother) because of my reaction. But to me that just makes things clearer for him - they are scum. I don't know how I am going to make him see that. He feels such loyalty to his (other) family. Although he has made it clear to me that whatever happens me and the DC come first, before his (other) family.

Reading all the posts a lot of memories came back to me of the surreal moment in 2008 when this all came out (I also read the original 2008 post for the first time in years and loads of things I had forgotten about). I got it wrong, he was put on the sex-offenders register for 5 years, nor 3 (so he'll still be on it). His rehabilitation order (counselling etc) was for 3 years. Firstly, my MIL refused to accept he was a 'paedophile'. He was 'someone with problems with addictions and obsessions' instead (yeah, addictions to images of abuse - doh).

Someone put their finger on it when they said that just cos they don't conform to what you think a paedophile is - old man in bushes with puppies etc - then it becomes easier for them to pretend he is not a 'common or garden paedo'. My wealthy in-laws reaction was to get one of the best QCs in the country to defend him (to protect them, to get as minimal fuss as possible). A lot of them (like my BIL and his wife who now have a baby and allow complete access with FIL) did not want to find out any of the facts, and did not attend court to hear the prosecution's case. My SIL is actually the owner and manager of a nursery which makes me feel disgusted when I think about it.

At court my insane MIL asked me to go over and kiss FIL "to make him feel better. He needs to know you love him". I can just imagine her saying that to our daughters if (god forbid) they ever were near him (over my dead body).

Then my MIL said that 'no-one had got hurt' as it was just pictures, not physical abuse. They all say that as he didn't get a custodial sentence then it couldn't have been that serious (my FIL appeared before that infamous judge who only gave the baby sitting rapist couple 5-6 year sentences, who doesn't believe custodial sentences work etc.).

It's just a whole catalogue of denial, and no matter how uncomfortable it will be I am not going to be a part of it, and play along with happy families that condones paedophilia.

Don't know where to turn now though as Relate were so useless. The NAPAC website seemed to say that they only deal with adults who have survived child abuse, which we aren't.

I'm not necessarily suggesting you do this, but I would be seriously tempted to report your SIL to the police - she runs a nursery and is in regular contact with a known paedophile? I would be fucking furious if my child was being minded by her. Just saying.

I am hormonal and tired and possibly irrational though. Will revisit in the morning to reassess.

OP-

Your latest post validates your decision totally. A paedophile is only as safe as those around him too and it seems that his entire family bar you and your DH are effectively colluding with the abuse.

The results of this? I am certain he will re-offend. i am a psych nurse working with many many victims of sexual abuse. I also work with offenders and have worked in the most secure of our secure forensic prison hospitals. My DH once worked in a specialist sex offenders unit.
He states that intensive inmate therapy programmes are showing reductions in the desire to re offend and improvements in self monitoring and co-operation but offenders have to acknowledge that it is not like an addiction and that it is likely a life long effort to avoid recidivism.

Your FIL and his family lack the 'micro climate' for preventing recidivism and could be described as enablers.

I am so very sorry. I wish you strength for what lies ahead. I will endeavour to find a decent support group for you and your DH. You both deserve the utmost in support, you see, because you are very brave and I am sure that all survivors of sexual abuse will be grateful to you for taking their pain seriously.

Thanks nursenic.

I forgot to mention also that really shortly after he'd been given this 3 year rehabilitation order thingy, my MIL f-ed off on a long holiday, leaving him alone in the house for a long period - so much for support! He was supposed to have a password protection on the computer, and the police were able to do spot checks whenever they like (as if they have the resources... wonder how often that happened...). My MIL often goes off on long holidays. I don't see much evidence of support, just cover-up.

I've never thought about whether my SIL should be reported for running a nursery, yet having close contact with a family member paedophile. I would welcome other people's thoughts on that.

Well said nursenic

OP - you are a very brave lady, & I'm glad this thread has helped you have the strength to follow your instincts, although like you I'm sad that it has touched a nerve with so many.

Like MakesCakes I am beyond [shocked] that your SIL is in such a position of trust & still believes your FIL. We can only hope she is professional enough to keep him away from her charges if not her own children I'm not sure how one could go about reporting her as she has not commited a crime herself. I think possibly an "expression of concern" to OFSTED might set red flags waving.Possibly she would have her eyes opened, I don't know. If I was an OFSTEd inspector I would be questioning her judgement as an owner/ manager.

Good luck to you, I hope you & DH get the counselling you both need.

i agree with Makescakes that it needs seriously considering. Just so SS have the right to protect others like you are protecting your children.

Please consider it.

And why was there not an order in place banning him from all PC use; or specifically No Internet?

Of course MIL went away-to treat it with any seriousness would mean her having to question her own moral judgement and her marriage.

If its ok, could I PM you in a few days?, OP? I'd rather address you privately and I think I could help you with support networks.

Fucking hell your updates are terrifying. How utterly Dysfunctional that they are all allowing this.

Similar issue with my dh's family - his sisters still kept in touch with their mum for a long time after DH cut contact, although maybe that was because DH was the one who bore the brunt of the abuse and not them.

Dh's ex still keeps in touch with her as well though I think that's to wind DH up nothing happened, and the DSDs are teens and actually dislike her anyway. It's hard for DH and I really hate his ex for it - she minimises the abuse and the DSDs don't understand why DH won't see their nan :(

I hate the image of paedo looking over the bushes etc. WHEN will society accept this is NOT how most abuse happens?

Re: reporting your SIL's nursery, YES. If nothing else it might bring home to the family the severity of what he did. Please do it.

Yes, expressing your concerns over your SIL's position to the appropriate agencies seems entirely appropriate to me given the circumstances, especially since she does not seem to grasp the seriousness of the situation even in relation to her own family.

And for the record, my "hysterical" rating should be low. I spent a number of years working with Children and Families Social Work teams and am now a teacher so I (thankfully) speak from a professional perspective rather than a personal one.

try this website www.lucyfaithfull.org/individuals_and_families.htm

nursenic - yes, do PM me, altho I'll have to remember to check the email (I had to set up a new email account to get this anon name on here). Is that how it works?

Fireman when you get a pm there will be a red star on your inbox symbol right at the ver top of the page.

Thanks for the Lucy Faithfull website address SamMiguel. I'd never heard of it, and it sounds like it is exactly what we need. Have you had direct experience of them?

Please report your SIL. Someone who runs a nursery should not be having this ongoing serious lapse in judgement. Pedophilia should be completely unacceptable to her and I fear it is not, or else she has some strange notion of what it consists of.

(PMing:
At the top of your MN page you will see two buttons to the right of the MN logo right at the top of the page. One says Log Out and the other says Inbox, with a little envelope. The envelope will be yellow when there is a PM in your Inbox. Click on the button and you will next see your PMs listed. Click on an individual PM to read it.)

(Must have a strange layout then)

I also think you should tell someone about sil compromised position. She thinks it is ok for covicted paedophiles to have open access to children!!

If she ran the nursery where my dd2 goes, and I found out this about her, I would fucking brain her

I'll show you hysterical!

FSFE - I would go further. Your SIL and BIL need to be reported to social services AS A MATTER OF URGENCY because they are allowing FIL access to their baby. Your niece / nephew is at risk. Sorry but it's true.

I would be tempted to report your SIL and the nursery to the papers. What if the FIL decided to pop in to visit the SIL at work? Doesn't bear thinking about.

If my DC attended this nursery, I would want to know this.

Hope that over time your DH understands and realises you are right, but even if not, you are still doing the right thing.

Am another one who thinks that you should report the SIL to SS and Ofsted, I have had DC in nursery recently and would not want them somewhere with someone in charge who had such poor judgment (at best).