Should I let my children see my paedophile FIL?

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I hope you can help me with this awful situation. Over 3 years ago, when I was pregnant with our first child, my husband and I discovered that my FIL had been arrested for downloading thousands of the most serious levels of child pornography, systematically for over a year. He plead guilty and was convicted. My DH was shocked and devastated as you can imagine, and I didn't ever want to see him again, and certainly not let our children (we have now had 2 kids) ever have any contact. At the time my husband said that our children would never have to have any contact with him.

Our children have never met my FIL, and my husband has limited contact with his family. 3 years on and my husband now wants our children to attend gatherings of his extended family where his father will be present. He no longer wants his father airbrushed out of our lives.

I am freaking out. I don't see what good it will do to introduce our children this man. It goes against every single one of my instincts to protect them - physically and emotionally. As they get older (they are 3 and 2) they will start to ask more and more questions. I don't know how I will be able to answer why they don't see their grandfather often, why he doesn't touch them (over my dead body) when they see him. What if they go to embrace him? etc etc... It's just going to get more and more complicated and horrible.

A paedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children, not just someone who assaults children. He has demonstrated a seriously dishonest nature (he managed to keep his obsession a secret, even from his wife, for over a year). I do not want our children to have contact with someone like this. It will just get more and more emotionally complicated for everyone.

Me and my husband have been at loggerheads over this for some time. I have finally agreed that we'll attend a family gathering next week and the kids will be introduced to the FIL, but with strict ground rules. Just an introduction: "this is Daddy's daddy", no physical contact, and that this is not the start of some sort of reconcillation. I feel sick about it, and am very worried I am doing the wrong thing in an attempt to make my husband happy (he has acknowledged he is only doing this for himself, not for the kids).

What would you do? Could you imagine yourself ever agreeing to this?

I won't be able to check this forum until tomorrow night, but hope I can get some sense from other people (due to the shameful nature of this I have been unable to talk to friends about it) and will be able to reply then. Thanks in advance

I'm sorry about what happened whitebread - agree with others, excellent post xx

People often say just looking at pictures doesn't do any harm - they seem to forget abuse was happening when the pictures were taken.

Agree with mouldyironingboard-

Relate counsellors deal with run of the mill relationship stuff. They are ill equipped to deal with domestic abuse/violence (as i found out regarding some patients of mine who visited two local branches to discuss this amongst other issues).

They mean well but lack the skills to advise on your situation and neither should they.

I agree with LePruneDeMaTante. Even if your children are not at risk, this man has supported child rape. How can anyone socialise with a man like this? I understand that it must be very hard for your husband, and that he would like some normality back into his live, but it is selfish of him to ask you to go and specially to take your dc to meet this horrible man. even if he didn't actively abused a child, children get abused and even kidnaped by gangs all over the world, for the sick pleasure of people like him.

Does anyone know of any charities that might be able to give the OP advice on this situation? Or might make things more clear for the OP's DH, e.g. if the NSPCC advised against contact?

It seems to me that if the issue is not resolved between the OP and her husband then a similar situation may occur again.

Bringing your children into contact with your FIL creates the possibility of his grooming them. Under no circumstances would I allow this to happen.

And as soon as they are old enough to understand, I would explain to them that they were never to have 'secrets' from me about their dad's dad, because he was sick and unable to behave properly with children. Ignorance is what makes people vulnerable to those who would hurt them, arm your children with knowledge as soon as they are ready for it.

combinearvester NAPAC may be able to help

I have known people who have stopped talking to their families for things a lot less serious than this.

This should be very easy for your DH to do, it does not need talking about.

FIL and his supportive family should be just a bad memory. Start a fresh with your fantastic family unit and make some new and happy memories for your DC.

nursenic - Although Relate do use lots of trainee counsellors in their low cost service as it simply couldn't run otherwise, Relate do not refuse to see couples where there is DV because of lack of experience, it is because couples therapy where there is abuse and/or violence is not considered safe by the majority of therapists working in that profession. You can read more about experiments to work with it here www.relate.org.uk/domestic-violence-and-abuse-prevention-programmes/index.html

OP, sorry to go off topic - Having said that, the counsellor was telling you what to think by the sounds of it and making judgements on your reaction - both of which are not counselling, do tell Relate or her accrediting body - it's not acceptable, moreover, where child safeguarding is concerned, she seems to have totally missed her training and her practice could actually be dangerous.

A 'no way' from me too. And there should be absolutely no photos of your children sent home to this man either.

Your DH should go to individual counselling and try to explore why he might be prepared to throw his relationship and his children's safety under the bus for the sake of being admitted to the fold of a family he has theoretically left in order to start his own family and keep it safe and intact. He needs to examine his motivation here, the power his family of origin seems to still have over him, even to the extent of denial that real children were raped and grievously injured in body and in spirit in order for his father to get his jollies.

I agree 100% with Eurostar's post too.

Oh God why do we let people like that stay alive?

As if a counselling course is going to rewire a brain and make a person be turned on by different things.

I think paedophilia must be so entrenched and accepted within the establishment that there is no will to punish and prevent it properly.

I think you are right there, Alouisee.

They say that usually a person is caught for a 'tip of the iceberg' offence and that the vast majority of their offences will never surface.

I also think it would be very strange for a man to suddenly, out of the blue, in middle age or at an older stage of his life, develop an interest in seeing children raped.

I work in cp and have been involved in cases where the children are removed because a parent fails to protect them from contact with a known paedophile so no. Also he should be on the sex offenders register and thus have a worker from either probation and the police,he will have to declare any involvment with children and may have conditions not to have any.
You know the answer op,id break my marriage up before i let a paedo anywhere near my children.

bejeezus 'The man likes looking at pictures of children being raped'

That is everything you need to know OP.

Everything, the other stuff pales into insignificance when held against that fact.

How he feels, how your DH feels, how you feel, how the extended family feels, none of it matters even the tiniest bit when you consider that this man likes looking at pictures of children being raped.

I just don't understand how anyone could actually speak to such a creature let alone entertain even the slightest thought of letting him near their kids.

TBH, I wouldn't be trusting anyone in your DH's family after this, they have normalised child rape.

I hope to god if you let your kids near this man someone with a shred of decency makes a call to social services and your kids are protected by someone, if their own family won't even put their needs above this man's wants they can obviously not rely on anyone.

That is also a good point.

I bet your "DH" would get a bloody good pasting. If he went into work/out with friends and said. "My Dad is a nonce, he viewed images, thousands of the most severe kind, I want him to see the kids, but my wife is being such a miserable cow and said no".

He knows this, you know this,, these kind of people are segregated for a reason in prison. Everyone, except their own ilk, and dysfunctional family, hate them.

If ss find out, as he has been convicted, they will act. SO tell your DH that.

I wouldn't be bothering with his family. But for me, I'd also be questioning my marriage and what man he was.

Haven't read the whole thread but there is no way in hell I would allow ANY contact between your FIL and your children. Are your children his only grandchildren? Would these be the first children he would have access to? I agree with the tip of the iceberg theory and that middle aged men don't suddenly develop these tendencies - if he hasn't acted up till now I would bet it's only through lack of opportunity. And this is quite apart from what you know will be going through his head while they are in his presence.

Your DH has been through an awful experience, sounds like he needs counselling as others have said. Does he see his dad as not being a 'proper' paedophile because he knows him and he doesn't conform to the stereotype i.e unknown man lurking behind bushes to tempt children away with puppies and sweets? If so, he needs to learn more about the realities of child abuse. Immediately.

I spent years working in Social Work and have seen first hand the consequences when parents don't take these threats to their children seriously.

If your FIL was truly sorry for what he had done, he would not want to put anyone in that position. It's a slippery slope, first it's family parties. Then, if they go 'well', your DH will probably start to push for more contact as your FIL has 'behaved' himself and thus is 'cured'. Don't go down that road at all. No access. Stick to your guns. Paedophiles are determined, skilled and persistent.

You could also argue, if you were being charitable, that you want to help your FIL by keeping your children away from him, to avoid him relapsing...

kerrymumbles what an awful thing for you and your family. I cannot understand the mentality of people who would ignore it, but then I haven't been in that position thank God. You're very brave to tell your story.

Very brave of you KerryMumbles to have to relive those awful experiences. I truly hope that the op makes her dh read your sad story.

Actually I truly hope that the the op broadcasts FIL's name far and wide so that people with children know to avoid the sick, twisted scrote. No on e should be making that mans life easier, quite the reverse, he should be frightened to go t the supermarket and shame on mil for sticking with him. For all any one knows she might have been a willing accomplice, it's not unheard of.