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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

garlicBread · 01/11/2011 18:18

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
PhishFoodAddiction · 06/11/2011 21:19

Harry, well done for posting.

Try not to compare yourself to your SIL- It doesn't mean she's better than you, just that she copes differently. As Garlic said, she could be papering over the cracks.

I am just so sad today. Part of me wants to go back to denying what happened, but the other part of me can't.Sorry for all the moaning. I am feeling quite depressed. I am sitting here with all these feelings and my mum just thinks everything is the same. It will never be the same. I want to confront her but it wouldn't achieve anything.

WailyWailyWaily · 07/11/2011 12:11

Everything I have read on this thread over the weekend has struck a cord with me.
Hi Harry, well done for starting to write :)
Belated happy birthday GC!

It has all struck a cord but I have managed to read and remain calm (not tearful) and I am feeling very empowered because of that.

My mother is now crazy old lady too :). I got an email from her yesterday inviting herself to my birthday in a couple of weeks time - well actually she said that she would like to 'fit me in' on her travels round the UK visiting descending on my brothers. Having discussed it with DH who said to just tell her we wont be in that weekend. I was aghast - it seems so dishonest to me, but I feel fortified having read your posts so I'm going to email her and tell her its not convenient for her to visit. I'm lucky she wont just drop in as she lives in another country.

Bear1984 · 07/11/2011 18:47

Oo my mother is also crazy old lady lol.

gobby Happy belated birthday :)

Harry a lot of people seem quite together on the surface, I know I did, but far from the truth. You are always welcome to post on here, even if it's little things or just a thought/feeling at the time. Are you doing counselling or on anti-depressants or anything? It could really help. Please look after yourself.

Phish sorry to hear you're feeling sad. Don't apologise for expressing how you feel on here. Sometimes I feel Mumsnet is all I have particularly as DP works nights during the week so a lot of the time I feel I don't always have someone here. I also went through a phase of wanting to just have it all out with her, but I slowly realised that it wouldn't accomplish anything, if anything just make me more angry and upset, which I didn't need.

WWW I'm so pleased to hear you felt empowered and for doing what you want to do, ie not see your mother. It's helped me tremendously to be able to monitor/control the amount I have to see her.

I know I don't love my mother, I haven't done in a long time, which is why I find it easy and okay to not be in contact with her, except when she does have to come to see DD. Me and DP were talking about our wedding, and I said to him "how would you feel if I didn't invite any of my family?" He said that it's not up to him but completely up to me, and he'll support me with whatever I decide. I feel very lucky and bless to have his support.

handsomeharry · 07/11/2011 18:56

Thanks for the welcome. It is a relief to have a space where I can be really honest.

I saw my mum briefly today and it was just about okay. I would like it to be good but have to accept it will never be and bearable just has to do.

I have so much anger inside me and I know this contributes to the depression.

I just find it so hard to be honest, even with myself. I find when I am talking to my friends that I lie about my relationship with my mum. I often 'make up' stories about her to paint her in a good light. Sad Blush

I am channelling crazy old lady like mad. It's a wee bit hard to put her in that place as she has always seemed so powerful but it is definitely the way to go.

waily - I am going to go back and read this and other threads a bit more closely but just want to say I hope you manage to send the email. Isn't it strange what high standards we have for ourselves and how hard we are on ourselves but expect so little from others? Very sad too.

handsomeharry · 07/11/2011 18:58

Sorry Bear - xpost. It took me an age of typing and deleting to get my post 'out'!

garlicBread · 07/11/2011 19:14

Good to see you here, harry. Congratulations on realising 'bearable will do'! It will, too.

There's a therapy 'tool' that might help with reducing your mother to her proper size in your emotional landscape. If you feel it might work for you, do it in a quiet moment now and again - if not, forget it :) It goes like this:

Picture your mother being scary/horrid, whatever she does. How does her face look? Is she standing or sitting? Towering or hunching? How does her voice sound?

Now turn your image of your mother into a funny cartoon. Make her get smaller and funnier, more cartoon-like. As she shrinks, her voice gets smaller and more squeaky, more like a funny little cartoon, until you can't hear any words at all - just a tiny squeaking and twittering!

Now let that go; she can return to human.

When you next see her, allow yourself a few entertaining moments cartoonising her Wink

OP posts:
WailyWailyWaily · 07/11/2011 20:36

Aagh. I sent the email just stating simply that it was not convenient for her to visit on that weekend, and the crazy old bat emailed straight back asking if it would be more suitable for her to visit during the week Hmm
I know that she recognised the snub but is trying to manoeuvre me but I'm not sure what to say next. DH said to just tell her we have moved but are not sure where to yet Grin
Garlic, I just tried that cartoon trick in my head and it made me smile
Harry, I write and delete frequently too, it helps to formulate my head. Also I have spent a very long time over the past week reading these threads and it has been at times very emotional but ultimately I'm optimistic that it is helping me to sort things out and realise a few truths that I knew but didn't acknowledge.
I'm sure all the emotion will return but for now I feel quite dry

beatenbyayellowteacup · 07/11/2011 21:09

Well done Waily. It feels like you're being hurtful when you stand up for yourself at first, because you're not used to it but it's a bloody good feeling once you get going Grin

Can you email back and say you aren't sure what your plans are yet, but you will let her know when a convenient time is? Or even, that you don't think that period would be convenient at all, but maybe next time?

garlicBread · 07/11/2011 21:57

Oooh, well done Waily! I think teacup's suggestion's a good one. But DH's is funnier Grin

Glad your squeaky mini-mum raised a smile.

OP posts:
Bear1984 · 08/11/2011 12:12

Well done Waily! Typical thing my mum would do, but I just say I'm not sure at the moment, and leave it as that.

I went to counselling today, first session since 2 years ago. Felt good to talk properly without worrying. The counsellor seemed quite upset/concerned about things when describing how my mum has been. Feel a bit crap now but know that's because I've opened up about things.

PeppermintPasty · 08/11/2011 12:54

Hi everyone, hope you're all fighting fit.

Um, I am going to have to put down here the the thing that has been bugging me, the old elephant in the room at this time of year. Christmas.

Oh god, why does it have to feel like this, like a dead weight right on top of my head bearing down!!

I haven't spoken to my mother since the third week in september-we would usually speak(with me ringing her) 3 times a week or more. Last time we spoke she was very very rude and unpleasant and I went NC on her. She hasn't tried to ring me. I've had my older sister facebooking me to tell me I am "emitting ice" by not calling my mother and other more hurtful things(yada yada this is what my sister does-fires the gun that mother loads etc).

I am the only one who lives hours away. So if I go for Christmas I have a 4-5 hour commute(at that time of year) with my dp and 2 children. And a stay of a few days out of my only holiday, two days of which will be travel days. I don't want to go, but how do I let go of the guilt about it, and how do I avoid all the extra crap I am going to get when "it is decided" (as it will be) that me not coming for xmas and NC with mother is all linked and all my fault and I've done it all deliberately and "poor mother"and so on and so on arrrrghhh.....!!!!

I know this is the FOG (just got Susan Forward's book about toxic parents btw!) but how do you guys deal with it. I'm at a loss. I feel such guilt and obligation that I fear that in the next couple of weeks I will ring her. Why the bloody hell should I? I'm not stopping her ringing me!!!

I almost want to ring her and want her to be foul to me again so I can turn round and say I don't think there's any point in me coming for Christmas, but that's a cop out.

I know this is an old chestnut this Christmas malarkey, but it is on my mind daily. Any tips?

ihatecbeebies · 08/11/2011 13:11

Hi everyone, I've just discovered this thread, I am not in contact with my mother (through my own choice, a difficult one but the best one I've ever made) but still feel the effects of her toxicity, especially when I am around my lovely little boy and think back to how different my childhood was. She still tries her hardest to make my life very difficult but hopefully one day I won't have to think about her again and can move on with my own life and be happy.

Thumbelina46 · 08/11/2011 13:40

Hi everyone! HARRY are you me? I have posted about the anger and vitriol I feel towards my own mother and ITSMEANDMYPUPPY was really helpful a few weeks back. I could not even understand why I was so angry-like you say it was like my heart was bursting with anger! I posted in general 'relationships'(About to cut contact with mother-why do I feel so angry). Like you , my mother is a good grandmother blah,blah and we would see her daily but like someone else said already I have now found that the best way to go at the moment is to simply be polite and civil,tell her nothing personal/private about the dcs etc,agree with her opinions,but just detach emotionally I guess. We still call to her(live nearby) but not so often , and we just make chit-chat. She babysits occasionally and I take her shopping /dr.appts.occasionally. But I still feel the same- very angry and resentful- but I seem to be able to cope with it better this way by emotionally detaching myself IYSWIM. God, you reminded me so much of how I felt a few weeks back(still do really) and unfortunately you also reminded me of the ' Great big old Christmas Chestnut '. It really helps to hear about everyone else doesnt it- I found ITSME gave me great insight and gives great advice to everyone. Gosh everyone, I have just realised I burst in like a whirlwind there- hope its ok to join in. HARRY struck a chord with me!SmileThanks

Bear1984 · 08/11/2011 14:07

Just a quick message as about to leave soon, but Peppermint I think it comes with time. The first couple of times that I said no I felt so guilty (back in the days when rage towards my mother wasn't as much as it is now) but I focused on the good things and as to why I was saying no, so I would make sure I planned fun things with DP and DD to take away the guilt as it was as if we were doing something special instead, iykwim. We haven't discussed Christmas or DD's birthday with my mother yet, but I know it'll be on the cards soon. I know I'm going to say no, I know I'll feel bad, but I have my family, my REAL family and that's all that matters to me at the moment.

ihatecbeebies well done for making the choice. It is difficult, but you've done what's best for you.

Thumbelina I began like that as well, by just being civil and not really engaging as it felt useless to do so. When I use to try and talk about me, she would then interrupt me and talk about her Hmm and of course it's fine to join in!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 08/11/2011 14:40

Hi Peppermint

I would ignore your sister's comments on FB.

I would go further too in that I would suggest you completely remove yourself from that site or block your sister. Dysfunctional family units to my mind tend to use such sites anyway as another way of getting back at their intended victim.

Indeed this is all FOG that you are feeling but you think your mother is feeling guilty? Not bloody likely. Would certainly not phone your mother and continue as you are; she is not worthy of your time or consideration. Make your own family traditions instead; we now go on holiday around Christmas time if DH can get enough time off.

PeppermintPasty · 08/11/2011 16:39

Thank you Bear. I really like Christmas with my own family (ie dp and children). My mother banned me from Christmas 2007 and Christmas 2008 at my parents' house because (then) she decided to take against my dp(she now thinks he is the best and is all "how do you put up with PP?"). So we had a lovely time by ourselves.

I also find myself resenting her even more this time of year after the "ban"-my Dad died in 2009 so I effectively missed his last 2 christmases. And for what? My mother's half arsed idea that she didn't like dp after I'd been with him for years and all had been fine according to her! Madness.

Attila, thank you. When I read that it felt like you were giving me approval, permission to feel like I feel iykwim. I know I don't need permission. Ah, I know, you validated my thoughts, that's the word! -I tell you what, that seems to be really important to me as I welled up when I read what you wrote. How ridiculous is that!

And I have put a block on my sister on fb-it's a bit rich isn't it, when the only person to ever make a negative comment on my fb page is my sister. None of my friends would even think to disparage me, nor I them!

The only other creeping guilt thing is mother not getting to see my dc's. But then again, she doesn't bother regularly with them anyway. In true mother-style she seems to see them as an extension of me, so if I'm in the doghouse so are they. Sigh...

ManicPanic · 08/11/2011 16:42

Hi stately homers. Just thought I'd gatecrash pop in and say hello, I have been reading bits and pieces here but rarely posting.

My mother went to live in Spain about 6 months ago. I found out after she left. I haven't seen her since I was pg with dd, almost 6 years ago.

Oddly I feel a bit bereft. Despite the fact she neglected me physically and emotionally, was violent when I was very little, raised me to feel I was worthless and consistantly denied any abuse that was done to me - both inside and outside the family - despite all that I feel bereft. I have no family. My biological family blank me due to whatever shit my mother has told them about me. I don't know who my dad is. And she has 'got away with it,' her and my stepdad have skipped happily off into the sunset. My stepdad was drinking so heavily when I was aged 10-15 that I don't think her remembers what he did and said - but I remember, every detail, and it makes me sick inside. It's killing me. Literally. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to heal. I took an overdose last week and physically I'm still recovering from that. I am in pieces.

PeppermintPasty · 08/11/2011 16:52

Hello Manic. I just want to say to you how sorry I am that you're feeling so low. Have you got RL support for this, someone you can talk to?

I don't think it's odd that you're feeling bereft-her move away from you geographically has probably brought all the feelings to the fore which you usually keep hidden-about abandonment maybe? By her and the SD? Sorry, bit of (very)amateur psychology going on there.

I can send you a lot of virtual warmth and support. Talk to the really wise kind people on here, they're amazing.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 08/11/2011 18:28

Manicpanic,

First and foremost here's a virtual hug(((((((((((manicpanic)))))))))))

On a more practical note may I suggest you have a look at this website; it may well help you
www.napac.org.uk

I would agree with Peppermint's writings; I think you perhaps feel abandonned all over again by her. Your mother abjectly failed you and continues to be so with her H's apparant blessing. You're perhaps grieving for a mother/daughter relationship you never had.

Your mother is particularly not worthy of being called a mother; she is self centered and selfish to say the very least. I don't think she's completely got away with it however; they are both in Spain yes but still locked in their own miserable existances with him still likely drinking heavily.

You are a survivor and you will heal. It was not your fault that this abuse towards you happened.

Bear1984 · 08/11/2011 18:48

Hugs Manic, I don't have much to add to what both Peppermint and Attila have said as I agree with them, but just wanted to say you're welcome to talk in here at any time.

itspeanutbutterjellytime · 08/11/2011 19:14

I've lurked here for 2 years and drawn strength from the passages written here. 3 months ago I read Toxic Parents and it was like a light was switched on.

I feel strange writing my story; I wasn't beaten as a child.

My father has always been a controlling man with a terrible temper. My mum used to argue back with him. I remember her gathering me up in her arms and racing up the stairs with my into my room and laying on the bed with me, the both of us crying and she stroked my hair. My Dad would come in and shout at us from time to time, I'd sob harder and so would she and she'd cry at him to 'just leave us alone'. He did eventually stop coming in. I out my teddies against the door to protect us. We lay there all night, fully dressed on my bed and slept together. I felt like she loved me.

She stopped arguing as much as I grew up, and I took quite a bit of the flak for her. He'd pick fights and she wouldn't stand up for me. I think she was just relieved it wasn't her. He was terribly controlling, demanding as I grew older to see bank statements etc.

I left home at 17 to join the forces. I did feel forced into going, I had to get out. He pushed the idea anyway and I felt like I had to leave the house. I met my DH and we had our first baby last year. My Dad got me alone in a room and told me he had been 'really fucking angry' when I had gotten pregnant. He tried to tell me what pram to buy, telling me my DH would be 'really pissed off' if I bought the wrong one.

When DS was born, I suffered quickly with PND. It was horrendous, and I felt I had nowhere to turn. I went to stay with my uncle (my mothers brother) for 2 weeks, and he and his wife helped me so much. Whilst I was there, I discovered none of the family really liked my father, when I asked why my uncle said it was because they all thought my father controlled my mother. My grandfather said he didn't even recognise his own daughter anymore. My uncle told me my mother used to be just like me, funny and happy, the life and soul of the party; really loud and lovely. But she changed when she met my dad. I couldn't believe him at first. She just isn't that person. She is painfully shy, won't say anything to anyone hardly. We never went to many family gatherings when I was a child.

With Christmas approaching, I felt more confident to confront my parents about their stance with my DS. My mother told me she thought it was the wrong time to have our son, but that he 'is here now so we'll just have to get on with it'. I told them not to bother coming round Boxing Day, because I knew they would try to cause ructions about it. My mum in the New Year, wrote me a letter listing all of my 'crimes' in the previous year, which has started with me getting pregnant. I have kept the letter to prove to myself its not in my imagination.

I have also begun counselling, which unearthed strange memories, including my father repeatedly watching me get undressed, shower and get dressed again, also making comments about my developing body. Particularly my thighs. This stopped when I left home, with him becoming almost prudish towards me. I remember feeling an odd sense of rejection, which disgusts me now. I disgust myself with that memory. It makes me feel dirty.

Our relationship is odd and fractured now. I am upset they don't really want to know my DS. I want to reconcile, in an odd way. But I know that what I want from them; they will never provide. And I cannot forgive them.

I've tried to put my story in some semblance of order; although there is probably more I'd like to write down, if thats ok. I think I'm ready to stop grieving for what I've lost. I'm not angry for whole days anymore. I want to talk about it though, if just to prove I wasn't imagining it all.

Even when I look back I think; that doesn't even look bad! What are you moaning about?! Do you know what I mean? It's taken me so long to write this; I feel constantly like I must be making a mountain out of a molehill.

ManicPanic · 08/11/2011 19:15

Thanks everyone.

I think that I somehow still thought she'd have a complete personality change and love me, and we'd be a proper mother and daughter and she wouldn't want to stay with a man who had made my life such a misery like she did and did and said such innapropriate things. So her moving away is a final nail in the coffin. She has not really expressed any interest in dd. I do feel torn apart by grief.

I see the psychologist once a week, I have a lovely dh and I am looking into getting some extra counselling via a college I attend.

I am 34 years old and I'm still trying to figure out how to function, how to live. Like many of us on this thread I suspect.

Christmas is sad and happy for me - I last had Xmas with my mother when I was 14. I am relieved that I don't have to buy my mother gifts or go and see them. When we would go to their house, I'd start shaking as soon as we got near, I'd be terrified and go drip white. Just near my mums front door was a small patch of concrete where my abuser had carved his initials - and I had to see that reminder every day as a child.

So. Now I don't have that to worry about. The things I love about Christmas - seeing my little girl happy. She is 5 and Xmas is magical for her. She has the confidence and innocence that I wish I had had at her age. But that means that I succeeded where my mother failed at least.

She is, naturally, a crazy old lady, too.

maristellathewitch · 08/11/2011 19:15

Hi everyone. After lurking over this thread for quite some time, I really do need to join.

I'm having yet more trouble with my mother, it's ongoing and I have had enough.

All I get at the moment is criticism as a mother Hmm
She is obsessed with the idea that my DS is badly dehydrated all the time. He isn't, I would not let him be! He is a teenager with full access to water, squash, tea etc.

Last night I asked her to please bear in mind that as DS' mother I am fully aware, and am meeting and exceeding his needs. She erupted with hatred, apparently I swan around drinking water while he has nothing. I asked her not to speak to me this way in my home, she said she should not have to sit back and watch while my DS 'goes without'. He does not go without.

DS is well fed, well watered (and hot chocolated and squashed), he lives in a warm house, he has nice clothing, footwear is fitted, money in the bank, weekly activities, holidays. He is far from neglected.

I tell DS every day, many times a day that I love him, I kiss and hug him (he rolls his eyes) when he leaves for school, when I get back from work and when he goes to bed. And any opportunity I get :)

He confides in me, he is open, he trusts me.

I had no-one to trust. I didn't tell my mother when I started my periods, I took on a second shop job to pay for what I needed. I had no-one to tell when I had a miscarriage while still at school. I had no-one to turn to when the social worker found me accommodation in a hostel because it was untolerable at home.

I can't remember being hugged, or told I am loved. I never ever felt liked or welcome.

All things considered my DS is doing ok, and quite right too. How dare she criticise me and imply that I neglect and therefore abuse him??????????
The nerve of the woman.

Please don;t think I'm typing and running, I have to dash to the supermarket.

And thanks for reading :)

ManicPanic · 08/11/2011 19:23

itspeanutbutterjellytime I know what you mean. I ahve spent most of my adult life trying to 'get over it' cos it 'wasn't that bad' and I should 'stop living in the past.'

Oh yes, squash down and repress all those memories and feelings... Unfortunately if you do that, you do end up very haunted and in so much pain... As we know!

Mountains out of molehills - you may feel like that, but think of it this way - sometimes actions or words, even very small ones - can have massive repurcussions. I 'remembered' a few things that my stepfather had said to me - really quite sick paedophilic stuff - and although they were just a few words slurred and me when he was pissed, they had a massive effect on me, I was shocked, petrified of him and what he would do. I'll be honest I was terrified he was going to rape me due to his behaviour and what he said. So those few words had a huge effect. So the old saying that 'words can never hurt me' is in fact, shit.

It sounds like you have experienced emotional abuse. I had this all my life and I found it very difficult at first to say what it was - as words can never hurt you, right? But critisism, derision, threats, nastiness and belittling can be devastating for a child and cause long lasting damage.

You are not alone and it is not you, it's them the fucked up bastards

itspeanutbutterjellytime · 08/11/2011 19:48

maristella your mother sounds ill to me. Perhaps she's jealous of you providing for your son in some way??? No idea. But I'm so sorry you had no one to speak to with your miscarriage when you were still at school. You poor, poor thing. The loss of a child is something your heart never truly recovers from, what a terrible thing for you to suffer alone. Sad I have no doubt you lavish your son with everything he needs. Probably much more than he needs! You sound like a balanced, loving and caring mummy. Something that your own mother would have cause to be jealous of herself. Good. I hope she feels torn inside after what she has done to you. You were neglected emotionally, which is just as hideous as other forms of abuse. You poor dear. X

manic I'm just so upset my ds will not have a loving relationship with his gp's. I feel like giving then a fucking good shake and screaming 'look at him! LOOK at how perfect he is! Why don't you want him?!'