"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Zombi I wish you peace in 2012 as well. I admire the child you for standing up to your parents, even though it was used against you, given the twisted kind of people they are.

Kal I don't have anything to advise, but the book Toxic Parents does address how to deal with your unfinished business with a parent after their death. My own instinctive reaction is: you don't owe your parents closure or some kind of resolution before they pass. You only owe it to yourself, and it can be at whatever time it is right for YOU.

Had minor blow-up with my parents. I stated that acertain behaviour made me uncomfortable, and first hot turned on, then got the martyr act. Left the house to walk the dog.Mom apparently threatened suicide while I was out. Was totally fine and acting as if nothing had ever been amiss when I returned. Had great conversation with enabler dad, though: he was willing to hear and accept my statements and stories of childhood hurt, and accept that I am rebuilding and protecting myself now. He still, though, feels responsible for my mom's emotions and actions, and is desperate for me to play along with her madness and see her in the idealised light he perforce must see her in, so long as he is safest and happiest in denial. It was interesting to see him understand my demonstrations of the errors of codependency when I presented true stories about stbxh and I, but then just shut down when I described true incidents between him and mom that exactly mirrored them.

I'm not trying to change or save him. His choices are his own. I was just presenting why I can't stand to watch their interaction , in the aftermath of my own abusive marriage. He has succeeded in twisting logic such that he understands my feelings and actions, but cannot see what it implies about his own marriage. Denial is a powerful thing indeed. On fact, I knew I could rely on it to tell my dad all without him being hurt by any shocking truths, since he simply cannot compute them.

X-brother who i havn't talkled to in 10 years - his wife has sent us a xmas card and in it a note - "congrats on the birth of baby Hope".

Why bother? it just upsets me - i dont want anything to do with them and now i feel bad as i'm not sending one back, but i shouldn't feel like i hve to send one back as i dont want a card in the first place. And to have it arrive on xmas evis just pants.

I think she is being bossy/out of order to try and force contact when both X-Brother and I are fine with the no contact. Why does he let her send the stupid things as they just end up in the bin anyway.

When will she give up?

Well card in bin and rant posted so i can forget about it ow and enjoy our first xmas with two children.

Have good time everyone xx

Card in bin = matter closed.

Who cares about thy whys and wherefores of her gesture. The card upset you, and it is now gone. On to festive things!

she did 8 months of silence once frida. After she had given my dog away. Its always me who breaks and tries to mend.

Kal but it does not have to be, relationships are two way processes and if there is nothing coming from her to you(apart from guilt tripping and refusal to take responsibilty for herself) then really you don't owe her anything. It is sad that she can't see her behaviour for what it is but there will have been times and people who have tried to tell her and she chose not to listen.
I hope you have a lovely christmas day without her presence or influence.

hello all.
I just stumbled across this thread the other day and have been reading with interest....
not really sure what to post, but a lot of what I have read has struck a cord with me.
From the outside my childhood looked wonderful...unless you knew anything about us!Middle class, professional parents, 2 children (me and dsis), "nice" clothes, lots of presents...and yes, trips to Stately Homes!! However it was very difficult for many reasons that I am not really sure I am ready to go into detail about...
I have been thinking about the impact of my childhood on my own mental health more recently. I am currently on antidepressants, for the third time in my life. On the outside I probably look to be "doing fine" but in reality my head is a bit of a mess. Most troublingly(is that a word?) I feel I am making a mess of being a Mum. You would have thought I had it sorted by now, my oldest is 13...but still I spend so much time feeling I am not doing a good enough job, but then I feel like that about everything I do, all the time, and think that is no doubt linked to how I was alsways made to feel as a child.....
I have ordered some books from Amazon...but really feel I could do with some counselling but no idea from whom/where....have been offered GP counselor - but not really sure they would be able to adress the issues in enough depth - or would fail to grasp the signifcance, have laso been offered the Mental Health Nurse at GP, but again fear they would just say that the antidepressants seem to be helping and wouldnt really be in a position to offer any real lasting help....
I have thought about paying, but dont have lots of money, and wouldnt really know how to go about finding a reputable councellor - or where to look etc...would be grateful for any ideas!
Will read some more of thread and may be back to post more if I feel brave enough!

oh..God...the more I read of this thread the worse I feel....(don't mean that in a bad way BTW) Its just that it sort of really a shock to begin to grasp the realisation that my childhood was absolutely awful and my parents were/are very emotionally abusive...
I have sort of always "known" it really, but it is as you say , the sort of "well I wasn't sexually abused and not actually physically hit/kicked THAT often...so its not like I was ABUSED as a child or anything, and really no-one has a perfectly happy childhood so what have I got to moan about" kind of thinking that has always been there that I am begining, for the first time ever, to realise isn't right
Oh God...what a mess. and to top it all off, it's Christmas....and I am going to parents on Thursday to stay overnight till Friday with DC and DH and dont know how I'll cope....I dont want to go

Hi RasberryMilkshake, I have posted on here and really found it a help just opening up and typing out why I was here (read a previous page) but it took a while to gain the confidence to actually do it. I found my counsellor through the mental health charity mind.

I did fourteen months of therapy through a university PHD program that the counsellor at my GP's found. So it might be worth going to see your surgeries counsellor just in case they know of anything like that.

Warm ((((())))) to all,at a time of year "uniquely special" to Stately Homers.......

I have come such a long way wrt my "parents" since babydd was born in April 2010,and I found MN.

This Christmas,we made our own choices about how and who we spent it with...since me and the dc live a days drive from blood relatives,it was clearly impossible to visit .So,exh 2,ds and dd3's Dad,arrived on Christmas eve,bringing tons of food,pressies and quiet laughs (his GF is with her g'dc this year,overseas)....exh 1,who is dd1 and dd2's Dad, came on Christmas morning (having dropped his partner and her son off at her parents') bringing more food,pressies and very silly humour.......We live just up the road from NM ,so he was here already......(....am cautious posting about him .....) Well,we ate drank and played silly games with the dc until 3am!

It has been a long road,getting to this point,for all of us.Ex1 and ex2 definitely qualify as Stately Homers,and credit their brief marriages to me and our ongoing co-parenting with having helped them to recognise that and to find ways to live with it.

Our second Christmas with NM (yes,not so N..)He has always,consistently responded to my blood family and their behaviour with open mouthed incredulity.Very validating.This,like all these big changes,is easily due to Babydd's arrival and the sadly appalling behaviour of her blood father.Terrible though his behaviour was,once my eyes were opened by MN to what was going on, a lot of the jig saw pieces f my life slotted into place,and,once I did what I had to - called the police- so much started to get easier.

For example,my parents sat with my dc,in my living room whilst I BF 2 week old babydd when exp (her blood father) stormed in.He appealed to my p's to "help him" with my "unreasonable" behaviour (the midwife had informed the police that we were at risk from him) then proceeded to physically manhandle me and babydd into the kitchen,where he yelled,threatened and abused me for a very long time.I found the strength to tell him to leave before I called the police.My parents immediately pretended this had never happened.The dc were and continue to be ,upset and confused by this.

Exp,following police intervention, denied that babydd was his and has never been seen or heard of since.He appears to have moved house and disappeared.He is not on her birth certificate.

The dc and I have had long,heartfelt discussions about the effect his behaviour had on our family.I feel massively guilty and apologise over and over.They always say that whatever he did,if not for him,we wouldn't have babydd.whom we adore.Her brother and sisters can't do enough for her.

Such a graphic illustration by my p's of just how bonkers they are,has made limited contact very easy for me and my dc.There can be no question that they are as nasty as I always felt,but couldn't put my finger on........It has also made explaining to others very straightforward.

It has not made it any easier for my p's to understand why I don't want to see them......We are all "exaggerating" what happened that day,and my calling the police was "hysteria".....I am "wrong" to "deny exp contact with his daughter" (the one he denies is his).......

My brothers and sil continue to "side" with my p's.According to my father,it is understandable that my brothers wish to keep their "normal,calm,settled" families away from "all my chaos"...and they are "very concerned and disappointed" by the stress I have given our p's over the years..............

They all spent Christmas together.......

My present from my p's........... pink nylon v cheap pyjamas in a size 22 ( I am 14-16) and a roll on superdrug own brand deodorant............I kid you not.

Everyone round my house on Christmas day found that hilarious - me included.

If not for babydd,I would still be in the FOG,running in circles trying to get it right.Wondering what was happening for me to feel so bad.Offering myself up as the scapegoat and agreeing with their definition of me as chaotic and troublesome.

I am in therapy again,hopefully to put all this to rest.

The p's are coming for supper on Thursday.Irritating,annoying.Nothing more.

xxxxxx

Oh PM, you have been so very courageous. I don't know how you find the strength to see you p's. I couldn't, I simply couldn't put myself in that cauldron of chaos that these people create.

I posted something on another thread which I will copy to here.

What will you do with the nylon podgies? I would buy a flag pole, and fly them as an emblem of the new, healthy and independent you! You could create a crest, and colour it in on the bum!

On Christmas day, I was cooking dinner, and I felt such relief that they were not there, not in my life, not in my home. It's so much easier, calmer, saner, happier, and actually FUN, without them.

My sister is not pretending to be ill, whilst really sleeping off whatever cocktail of drugs and alcohol she'd had in the previous week/month/year, my other sister and her sweaty, stinking husband wouldn't be constantly looking for things to be wrong...from my weight to my hair, to my kids, my cooking, my table, chairs, carpet, wall colours, whatever. My freak of a mother is not here shit stirring, saying suchabody said something they didn't and telling someone else the polar opposite, with the express intention of causing conflict. Then being deliberately late and keeping everyone waiting, telling lies about nothing, for no apparent reason, feigning some kind of freak injury (actually they all do a bit of that) which requires NHS direct or casualty.....

I mean really, who would choose that? Not me.

Hello Stately Homers, have not posted on here in a very long time.
I thought Id come and say hi and catch up on where I am up too.
I have had a year now of therapy and feel like a different person in many respects. Stronger, happier, HEALTHIER! A better mother as a result.
During therapy I came to realise a huge amount of truth wrt my father.
The toxic parent I had let of the hook all these years. For so long I had put him on a pedastal and wanted/needed his approval so badly I would morph into a panting dog in his presence.
Last year I stood up for myself wrt my father and as a result he has cut me off, recently blocking me from my younger brothers wedding. I only see this as more proof that my realisations about him are justified.
My only sticking point at the moment is regarding contact. I think my counsellor has pushed me toward reconciling with my N mother. My need to please has taken over and as a result this contact did happen just before xmas. I think counsellor wants me to 'know' I can stand up to N mum and have relationship with boundaries. I think it is hard for anyone who has not had an N mother to realise just how impossible this can be.
I feel panicked about this now. Yes I have forgiven my mother in a sense, because I feel nothing for her anymore and expect nothing from her. In other words I have moved on from the pain she inflicted on me until 4 years ago I cut her off.
I still dont know if I have grown strong enough in those last four years to withold her constant bulldozing.

Anyway- overall I feel so much better and clearer than ever that their behaviour belongs to them and has asbolutely NOTHING to do with me. A simple concept perhaps but Oh such a very important one.

love to all of you struggling with these mixed up feelings as a result of these toxic relationships.

smithfield x

It's the same realisations that keep me from having contact with my family again though. Smithfield.

I don't WANT and certainly no longer need to have these people messing up another moment of my life. and the title "mother" means nothing in the context of my family.

My family bring NOTHING but bad stuff, confusion, fear, frustration, anxiety, self doubt and on I could go.

In this life now, with those people gone, I have people aorund me who use words like, courageous, strong, extraordinary, a wonderful mum, and on and on.

It's now, a bit of a no brainer. But it was a hell of a journey getting here, and I know it will continue to be a work in progress.

Hi singingprincess

Good to see you are doing so well!

I cant believe in some ways I have allowed this to happen, after 4 whole years as well. The little me feels quite frightened actually, which is another reason I am seeking solace here. The fact is the counsellor just cant have understood the extent of the damage these people are capable of inflicting.
At the same time I dont know I can go back through the whole process of cutting her off again...the screaming accusations of my cruelty from my mother. After all I did agree to see her and I did say we could try and build bridges. now I want to change my mind and wish I could escape back into the comforting shell of no contact.
I was due to go to my middle dbs today but I text and said we wouldnt be going. My mother then text me back? So they are discussing me between them already (didnt take long) and she said it was such a shame because x y and z. In other words more of the same...emotional bulldozing.

I guess the other thing is I am still processing all this stuff about my dad. So currently feeling so much anger toward him. My mother senses this and will feed off it and use it to her advantage.
Parents are divorced and years later they are still more interested in scoring points off each other than the welfare of their children or Gcs.

((hugs)) to you all.

Christmas was different for me this year. One year of pstchodynamic therapy. almost completed.
ONWARDS AND UPWARDS.

I'll show the unfeeling, detached, selfish bastards.

Breathe.

singingprincess, you used the word 'fun' about your Xmas. I just realised - mine was 'fun' too because we were at the ILs, not with my family. I was in a much better 'mood' than when I'm around my family. There was no verbal abuse, no walking on eggshells, no guilt trips, no obligation. Just 4 people being really quite nice to each other and doing our best to maintain good humour Yes, there are times when they get on my wick but it's all very manageable - they don't grind me down and make me question my own sanity like my own parents do.

Big plans for the coming year - recognise the FOG and refuse to give in!

thanks cherrycat and frida for suggestions about finding a counsellor. I might try starting with GP counsellor and see where to go from there....trouble is not sure I will be able to get time off work for appointment....
It sounds as if some of you have made such wonderful journeys with the help of therapy....you are all so brave.
In some ways I am lucky as we live about 2 1/2 hours dive away fro my family. (I was quite certain I wanted to move away when I went to University!) so manage to have only limited contact with them...
Currently I am most worried about the effects of my past on my current parenting...I would like to believe that I am nowhere near as toxic as my parents but I have to admit that sometimes I find myself doing or saying things that I really dont think are great and wish I could do a lot differently but find it soooo hard sometimes to be the kind of parent I want to be. I am sooooo scared that my DC will end up as damaged as I am, and will end up not wanting to have enything to do with me once they leave home......and then I start to feel bad for feeling like that towards my parents because they were probably trying their best...my Mum had major mental health problems, so really a lot of it wasnt their fault.....but she is SO toxic...
anyway, I'm waffling now!Sorry. Clearly this is why I need therapy of some sort - I have SO much to try and untangle and to work through...too bad I have left it this late to try and sort myslef out!
More depressingly we are off to my parents tomorrow I had resolved to only visit for the day this Christmas, but (surprise,surprise!) I have been made to feel so guilty for suggesting that (by my parents and equally toxic sister) that I have now agreed to stay overnight....I am so pathetic! Will just try to grin and bare it for the sake of DC and look forward to getting home....

Hi therealsmithfield

From your post up there ^

"My only sticking point at the moment is regarding contact. I think my counsellor has pushed me toward reconciling with my N mother. My need to please has taken over and as a result this contact did happen just before xmas. I think counsellor wants me to 'know' I can stand up to N mum and have relationship with boundaries. I think it is hard for anyone who has not had an N mother to realise just how impossible this can be...."

I read your comment above this morning and it's been playing on my mind aaaalllll bloomin' day.... please don't let anyone push you into doing anything YOU are not comfortable with.

If your counsellor is pushing for contact without 'seeing' your true fear...this can only be a bad thing.

IMO 'we' (as in most people) all love a happy ending and being able to tick the 'case closed' box through our lives...there is something about your post that screams you counsellor is working towards 'case closed' rather than a healthy you. I feel an alternative agenda to just enabling you to live with/create healthy boundaries may be at play.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well...but for some reason your post made me thing "Woah there....why is the counsellor sending you back to make peace with such appalling people...when they will only 'do' their stuff all over again??

As I said I don't 'know' what is wrong....but my instincts are screaming Nooooooo!!!!! for all they are worth.

I have no idea what you are supposed to do with this post therealsmithfield I just felt the dire need to post it!

Anyways take care xx

Sorry that ^ should read..

...'case closed' & 'job done'

...both times I used that term.

Hi mizzy - sorry my dilemma bugged you all day . Thanks for the post, and I do get what you mean. The trouble is there is no happily ever after, is there? I do wonder if the closest any of us can get to a godd enough ending is acceptance. Acceptance of the fact I was an unmothered child and acceptance that I will never change that fact but most importantly it was not my failings that brought that about.
I cant place all the blame on my counsellor either though...as an 'unmothered adult/child' I guess there will always be a part of me looking for that mother figure and then subconciously the need to please that figure takes over.
I dont know if that makes sense but writing this stuff down is helping I guess. Helping me to make sense of things.
My mother was broken into over xmas while she was at my brothers and my instinct is to go into rescuer mode, but I am currently refraining from doing so despite the guilt being almost unbearable. I know that sounds hard but again my subconcious taps into her need to be mothered. There is never any clear communication such as 'Hey I could really do with someone to talk to right now', its all hidden messages. I guess I have to break the habit of blindly pushing aside my needs in favour of others, the trouble is not always being aware that i'm doing it. Does anyone relate to this?

good enough

Just switched over the TV channels and caught the end of the Railway Children. The scene where the eldest chlld runs into her Daddies arms on the railway platform. It is obvious he genuinly loves hid Daughter.
The tears usually stream at that point and they did today, but i experienced a new feeling, a deep realisation, of just how distant my father was from me in my childhood. He may aswell have not been there. The only time he felt he could communicate with me was to put me down, critcise, call me names, sneer at me, humiliate me infront of others.
His actions made him feel better. In his own childhood he was lonlier than I and without much affection fron his Mother...

As per, I feel mixed up as to how i should feel about myself, inside. Conflicting viewpoints of Him and one year of Psychodynamic therapy. I really think I'll never beable to have a decent loving relationship, with a man. How? The first man i knew treated me so appallingly. and since, they're all the same :(

goingforgoal, I dont know your backstory, but I can relate to the feelings you have about your father. The key is you now have insight! That in itself is gold because you can make decisions about partners based on your new found knowledge.