"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Thanks for the bill of rights. I like it. I'd really like my kids to just know that, right to their core, that it is OK to make mistakes, to change their minds, to not have to make everyone like them. I tell them that stuff, but then sometimes I do things badly or messily and I wonder if I'm making as much of a mess as my mum did. But I don't think I am. That's the thing I am most grateful to my wonderful counsellor for - she gave me the confidence to have kids in the first place as she helped me see I don't have to parent exactly the way I was parented.

Thank you puppy, I will read the bill right now! Gosh you really sound as if you have been through a tough time, you sound like you are really strong and on top of things now. Did you find yourself second guessing things/instances sometimes...for instance thinking was that my mother/father being horrible or me being over sensitive at the time?
I grew up with an ill father and struggling mother. She would often discuss how she would like to kill my dad at her lowest ebb. She obviously had mental health problems from the situation we lived in. I heard the arguments and saw the upset in my dark sick house that was my home. I shiver thinking about it.

I was so terribly lonely at home. My brother just stayed in his room and was often sulky and moody which was OK....I however faced the brunt of my mothers unhappiness, the yelling screaming, not knowing when she would blow up and go absolutely nuts. I can picture her now and her face sticks with me. Frightening. I lived in constant fear of her moods and temper for most of my tween/teen life. I had to hyper vigilant and felt anxious quite often sat in my room, listening to doors slamming. The put downs about being overweight, the attempt to stab me with a fork at the dinner table whilst arguing with my brother, the attack in the kitchen when I answered her back once with my poorly Dad trying to break it up. Brother never got shouted at or reprimanded for anything....mother would just say we don't want to upset your brother because he sulks.

I remember witnessing my Dad giving up on life and becoming a recluse, scared to argue or stick up for me, catching him trying to commit suicide and crying because of my mum and the way things were with his illness. In all of this I wasn't allowed to 'air my dirty washing in public' or talk to my Grandma (only close relative) about anything. I was a child/teenager and I kept it all behind the closed door.

I even went to see a counselor when I started 6th form college and my mum found out, she went mad saying I didn't need to talk to anyone and that it was weird to see such a person. I once broke down when my first boyfriend at 16 dumped me...I was devastated, mum just laughed and said she couldn't cope with me and my emotions...pull yourself together- we didn't do emotions in our house..we didn't talk about feelings..we buried them...I rang my Gran for support on my split with first love and my Mum went mad at me for telling her! I was devastated at the time as it was the first person who showed me love and kindness. My mum had no privacy rules, she searched my room all the time, it was suffocating. It must of been tough for my mum being in the situation she was in with my Dad but why did she use me as a scapegoat for her rage? Did she not think that it would scar me in my adult life?

Fast forward many years...parents divorced, she kicked me out of home when I had no place to live at 18 when she met a new man, brother moved to another part of the country (we dont speak anymore) and I have tried to have a relationship with her since having DD but she gets bored and throws it in my face after a while. I have really tried with her but she is so very childish and moves from one thing to another very quickly....friends,jobs,internet dating, men. I just want a proper mum, one that is there for you in good and bad times, one you can tell anything and share things with. I have never heard her say sorry for anything in the past or present, NEVER. She is never wrong about anything.
I have gone no contact after becoming mentally poorly with the situation and facing my past life...but she is still trying to see DD through texting my DH.

My upbringing left me with massive self esteem and confidence issues, i can sometimes be easily bullied by some people in work (working on that one) and I'm very sensitive to peoples moods. I get very anxious if people are angry and bad tempered, I feel like a little child all over again. I developed Bulimia in my 20's but manage it now in my 30's after support. But I'm still here :-)

Gosh can't believe I got it all out. Sorry it's so epic.

cherrycat-so much of what you say resonates. The temper tantrums, never apologising and never ever being wrong, my mother all over. Oh she did call herself a bad mother once but only in an attempt to guilt trip me into saying she was not.
Establishing boundaries for me, has not been about talking with the other person, that's never going to work in the case of my mother. So to some extent I now play her at her own game.
She came to stay for my dd's birthday but booked her flight home on the evening of dd's birthday(the whole point of her visit) so she didn't have to take a day off work. Except she did take a day off work at the beginging of her trip to have more time in NY, by herself.
So she was expecting a lift to the airport on DD's birthday, didn't mention it all week then brought it up with my husband an hour or so before she had to leave. Me and Dh had talked earlier in the day and agreed that I would handle it. So he pointed her to me.
"DH says you are going to drive me to the airport"
"The airport OR the trainstation" was my reply. A direct train to the airport and it's a lot closer to where we live, so I wouldn't spend hours on my DD's birthday driving around.
She took the trainstation option but then her packing involved a LOT of swearing and a LOT of banging, which I ignored. Very proud of myself,at one time I would have run upstairs to make it better.
And that is an example of enforcing boundaries without having to discuss the whys and wherefores, would not work with my mother, she is incapable of seeing things from other peoples perspectives. But I am learning to accept that and work around it.

fridakahlo, I feel queasy just reading about maternal swearing and banging upstairs! Well done you, how brave and calm you were. I would not be able to handle myself in that situation AT ALL.

I have been very kindly pointed here after posting a huge epic in Relationships about my poor relationship with my mum. Would just like to check if I should be here, though, as my mum's unpleasant and narcissistic behaviour really developed after my Dad died, 8 years ago, when I was already 21. When I was a child, she had a fiery temper and I found her anger frightening, but she was a close and loving parent (tbh I think I'm really mourning the mother she used to be, as well as my father). Could someone please advise me? I don't want to post in the wrong place (although the image of someone who's never wrong, never apologises and allows other people not one iota of consideration or space in her mind definitely rings true with me too).

Sorry to jump in:

It is four years to the minute, since my "mother" turned up on my doorstep, after five years of no contact.

The next two and a half years saw her systematically attempt to destroy my entire world.

She is a fucking evil bitch, and I sent her packing after finding out that it was indeed her that was behind every single attempt to have my Ds removed from me, endless court appearances, character assassinations, and eventually telling my h how evil I was and how he needed top lawyers to help get rid of me, and get my dc's away from me.

I always had the feeling it was her, and it turned out it was, in cahoots with my first rapist of a husband, and druggy sisters. I look back and it seems so horrific, it's almost unbelievable...except it was the reality that was my life.

I want to thank all the people on this thread for helping through the most horrific nightmare anyone could imagine. I am alive, I am getting there, and sometimes, I find myself just happy, and content...how wonderful is that?

Thank you Stately Homers....I love you all to bits and wish you hugs and happiness from the bottom of my heart.

Have the very best Christmas you can, and make the next one that bit better again.

xx

WhitePeacock, from the sounds of it sounds like you have definitly found the right place.
Singing Princess, having read an Imaginative Experiece by Mary Wesley(plot centers around an abusive husband and mother) , I shudder to think there are actually people like that. Reading about her background it sounds like she was no stranger to emotionally abusive parents.

One of the things that is the hardest thing for me as an adult (47) in relationships, is working out:

what am I responsible for?
what am I not responsible for?

Because I have no idea.

Anyone have any thoughts.

I havent explained my situation yet but I will. But after a week of martyred silence I am going to risk ringing my mother to see if she is going to sulk over imagined sluights Xmas day or come for dinner. I actually feel sick. Hold my hand

well that didnt go wel. Its all my fault, she doesnt feel welcome, I deliberatly dont come and see her, I sleep during the day (Im up al night so have too).
So she is going to cut of her fucking nose to spite her fucking face.
So why am I so fucking upset

Probably because you are not yet resigned to the fact that your mother will probably never change. I think knowing in your head how your mother behaves is a totally different thing from knowing emotionally.
So you are feeling punished and rejected, despite having done nothing wrong. And that hurts.
ABitWobbly, it genrally boils down to you are responsible for your actions and your reactions. Other people are responsible for theirs. So say my daughter is having a hissy fit, I have no control over whether she does that or not but I do have control over how I respond to her. But since a lot of the time children tantruming is realated to feeling a lack of control, I can help with that by allowing her choices and decisions, where appropriate. It can be a tightrope at times trying to get it right.

WhitePeacock, I don't think your mother's problematic treatment of you only started 8 years ago: rages that scared you as a child, being her emotional support and confidante when SHE was the parent... think how deeply that will have affected the child you; how unfair it was... Do check the links and books at the start of this thread.

Wobbly: the "bill of rights" I posted yesterday tangentially answers you question. Frida is right: you are responsible only for your actions and reactions: you can't cause or change anyone else's.

Cherry pie and princess: your stories made me really sad and angry. To answer your question cherrypie: no, I haven't second-guessed myself since the scales fell from my eyes. I have kept my anger to myself (and close friends and therapist) as I don't want to say or do anything vis-a-vis my parents while in the grip of strong emotion. Thanks for the compliment, btw, and right back atcha: we are all of us REALLY strong to have put up with so much, since so young, and still be standing, and lucid, and trying to learn and improve.

I've been trying to be the bigger person here with dealing with my family. My mother texted me saying that she wants to have DD at hers so my brothers could see her. So I texted one of my brothers and said about picking them both up and taking them and DD to the bowling alley so they can spend some time together, and then me and DP will hang around doing our own thing so we don't interrupt their time. That way everyone wins. Brother has agreed to do this so DD is excited about that. I've never had any problems with my brothers, but we've lost touch a lot over the years.

I also went round to my sister's, which I would never do in normal situations, but it was DD's and niece's birthdays so making the effort for the kids. Sister had told me she would be in that evening. Turned up and she wasn't. Typical. It feels like she's being difficult just like my mother, which I'm not surprised about.

Also my mother has asked when she can see DD over Christmas. We were thinking of saying she can do an hour on Boxing Day, but definitely not Christmas Day. We haven't seen her the past two years on Christmas Day so she can't argue the fact that we're not seeing her then, plus we have plans anyway.

I really don't want them spoiling this Christmas for me as this is the first one that I have genuinely been looking forward to, and that's a first for me!

Hello - I've stumbled across the statley home and think visiting will be a good thing. Feel a bit awkward as I'm new to the thread and it all seems a bit 'huge' to introduce myself. Anybody have no contact with their family?

I'm estranged from, my mother (seriously NPD), my two brothers and my step dad. Christmas brings a real lump in the throat when i remember the glorious chaos that I loved. It's not too bad though (I'm fine, in fact I should stop moaning).

MizzyFizzzy What a lovely, strong post. You've done a year - well done (although me saying that is a double edged sword I know - who really, truly wants to be estranged, when human beings are programmed to care for each other...)
I've had no contact for approx 5.5 years now. Usually I'm ox-like and strong, but This year has been particularly tough - as my DS is nearly 5, DD 3 and my mum has not even met them. Are you feeling upbeat about christmas?

Thanks for your great post.

Hello, just dipping a toe in here as not sure what to say, or what's ok?
Is it just if you struggled with your parents or can any family be included (Dad's definately a problem, more issues with other family). I'm mostly ok now, just not always! I feel the same as ratflavouredjelly and it feels a bit huge just to launch into!

I didn't really go into details about why I'm joining in, done enough of that in other bits of Mumsnet. If you want to share what/why your joining in, I can't see why that would be a problem esp if you need to unload.
I think all family counts?
I'm still in touch with my family but it has been a close run thing over the years.

Anything goes in the Stately Homes. Unburden away!

Am at parents' now. Enabler dad couldn't make it more obvious that the creature he's excited to host is my dog, not me. When he greeted me at the station, I was weighed down with numerous heavy bags. He asked if he could take the dog (to cuddle her, not to free me) and left me with the bags.

NPD mom is being on good behaviour with me: she's pressuring me for a date when she can visit, keeps bringing up how long it's been since she saw me, and how often she's spoken to my sister in that time, but I am ignoring the bait.

She doesn't have any interaction with my dad that isn't abusive, though: insults, put-downs, controlling his finances... (she won't let him carry a bank card, and tightly controls the cash she gives him, while bitching about "what does he spend it all on") he just takes it, and hides in his corner playing sudoku. What a sad fucking existence. No wonder he longs for my dog: she is loving, straightforward, and uncomplicated.

Have some cosiness this Christmas eve, all!

Wow, so many positive posts, it is really encouraging to see people emerging from the other side.
Who was it further up the page whose mother was working with her ex? That struck a chord with me, as when i divorced my abusive ex, my sister (who despised him) suddenly became his best friend...fb, cards, meetings etc and they between them 'stole' my then 3 daughters for a nightmarish week of police/ legal battles and utter utter despair, thankfully i got them back....i tried to build bridges afterwards but my sister claims that it is I who owes HER an apology...wtf???? I have no family left at all now except my DH of 3 years, and my 4 daughters and another on the way. If only that ex-family could recognise they dont exist to me anymore and stop harassing me....i have been asked what i will do when someone dies..i think i have hardened myself enough that i will not go to funerals etc...but i wont know till it happens.....has anyone faced this situation yet? How was it?
I am actually looking forward to christmas....its quiet, but PEACEFUL and that is important to me...
Have a wonderful weekend everyone

If only that ex-family could recognise they dont exist to me anymore and stop harassing me....

They won't. You can state it loud and clear to them, and then behave in consequence , and still they won't fully accept it. But at least you'll have made your own position clear, for your own sake if no one else's.

So glad to have found this thread. I really don't know where to begin if I'm honest. It's really such a boring cliche story so I appreciate anyone taking the time out of their Christmas Eve to read it.

My Dad is an alcoholic who was violent with me til adulthood and once after I moved out. My Mum is worse. She is an enabler who chose him over her children every time. He went as far as leaving Mum for a feLlow booze-head on the other end of the world and still she took him back.

I would even ''get it'' from Dad for not understanding Math when he explained it.

I always spoke out as a child. In fact, my parents encouraged it by holding dreaded ''family meetings'' where they would ask us to air our feelings and proceed to tell us why we were wrong, often leaving us in tears.

I was once asked what made me happy during one such meeting. I said that I didn't feel safe with then at home or at school because I was bullied en masse because of a rather obvious disability. I said I had three things that kept me happy. Babysitting my cousins on a Friday, seeing my Gran and my favourite band. I got a verbal bashing the likes of which I had never heard before. Dad made fun of me in a sustained verbal bashing and called me pathetic before slapping me around for answering back.

Aged 18 I tried to kill myself. If it wasn't for a friend being stood up for a date I would have died. For a long time I wished that I had.

I moved out of my parents' aged 19 after another violent altercation with my Dad and met my now DH not long after.

The final violence against me was during a visit to their home aged 23, just before I got pregnant for the first time.

Now it's all rather sad and sorry. Dad has burst brain vessels that has led to slight short-term memory loss and occassionally delayed motor functions. Still my mum insists that his weekend binging is ''just what everyone does'' and that he has no problem. Really? Is that why he has been on antabuse more times than I can count?

I've always been more angry with my mum. I begged her to get us out of there and she never did, even going as far as to take part in the verval abuse herself.

I'm now 28 with. Self worth at all. I' been in therapy on and off since I was 16 and I allow people to treat me badly.

I hope for peace in 2012

Sorry about my bad spelling etc. Shaky hands as I typed.

Hi ratflavouredjelly

I am a bit upbeat about Xmas...I like Xmas anyway, but to be able to be 'me' without the angst of a duty visit will make it seem all that better than usual.

I do wonder whether there will ever be a time (whilst my parents are alive) that Birthdays and Xmas will ever be completely 'stress' free though.

When you are outside the 'family' loop and have no knowledge of their 'plans'... I think I have a tendency to worry about too many 'what if's'!

Sorry to hear you've had such a tough year...I think this is when we are most vulnerable to doubting our decisions....don't doubt yours though...to be NC for 5.5 years means there just have to be many important and justifiable reasons for your initial decision and for remaining NC for so long.

I hope you have a lovely Xmas and a better 2012...xxx

How do you cope if the toxic parent dies while you are 'not speaking'? My mum is 77 and in very poor health (this is used as a weapon) but after last nights phone cll I'm not sure I want to try again or mend bridges.
Because we had rowed last weekend about me not bringing dd down to see the decorations (mum had not told me she even put any up and has spent months saying decorations are not even Christian but I get it in the neck for not bringing dd down to see them) she said she spent sunday crying and going to the front door expecting us to be visiting. WTF?! I am expected to be responsible for that?
Once again I explain how hard it for me to take dd there (dd is very disabled, so I am and a Carer is required. There's no hoists at mums so changing dd who is 8 is a nightmare) and that she is welcome any time up here (we are a mile away) so she says dd is always at school. ummm, after school I say. Its dark she replies. So why cant we come at a weekend? At a weekend we have a carer in. Now me and Carer cant lift dd. She wants dh to give up his 3 hours break on a saturday (he works and carers) to walk down to her place with me and Carer to visit. DH doesnt want too, its his time off.
None of this is good enough and she gets upset so I once again ask if she is coming for Xmas lunch, we have presents, bought her favourite food (fuck, we dont even celebrate Xmas. its all for her) No she isnt she says, because she isnt welcome.
This is how it always is. Someone else is responisble for her happiness and that someone cannot ever get it right. Yet she manages to make me feel like a total shit for not viiting when she wont come here (cos she says she isnt welcome).
I will be honst. I hate visiting. My wheelchair has to stay in the hall, the place is covered in dog hair and the dogs and various phone calls come first while you, as a visitr sit there politely. Then she starts on religion because Im not a christian. Little snide remarks. I have pretty much limited seeing her to shopping trips because its easier on me.
Bot my siblings live abroad so she is calling them in tears about how awful I am.

But what if she does die? I cant quite make the break but lasts night phone call was so awful I really dont want to see her again. yet here I sit wondering whether to wheel down Xmas morning ffs, because I still seek approval after never getting it for 40 years.
I dont know what to do.

sorry that was so long. That was restrained but I dont think a litany of the years (and my childhood was alcohol and her abusive boyfriends she put before her kids every single time). The sad thing is, her mother was the same. the long silences, the refusal to give approval

Perhaps it might help to think what she would do if the situation was reversed. How did she treat her parents? Would she be worrying the way you are, if you were her and she you (iyswIm)?