"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

(((((droves))))) and ((((bluecardie))))

I totally get that....it gets me in the shops, hearing snippets of "normal" in people's conversations.

I want normal...."whatever that means"..(as said by the bloke from one of the most dysfunctional families in the country!)

oH well, it's only a day. This too shall pass.

I posted this in AIBU under the title "AIBU to want to punch her" - my mother that is... I actually wanted to today, I was so frustrated.

She has always been hyper critical to the point of cruel ever since my teens and I find myself increasingly defensive towards her. When I fell pregnant at 24 her first words were "how could you do this to me". I had rather horrid breakdown after my ex beat me up and she suggested that I "leave the county for the sake of the family" - rather than supporting me she was embarrassed and said I was always a disappointment to her... I am very close to my younger sisters who still live at home so severing contact is not an option - we also live in a very close community and share a lot of friends (there is only 5 years difference between my son and youngest sister) which would make it very tricky to avoid her.

I have menieres disease and my balance and hearing are increasingly shite so i need some help (single parent)- sadly mother is furious with me for being ill as she likes to be the illest at all times. I had a serious attack a few weeks ago and my DS called her to come over because I couldn't stand upright and he needed to get to school - she stood over me as I vomited and hurled abuse at me for not doing the washing up. She told me today that illness was all in our heads and that I must never discuss how I am feeling or how gradually going deaf is effecting my life (with an operation in the next few weeks that might be tricky). This coming from the woman who friends have commented on never being able to say "very well thank you" when asked how she is - preferring the catalogue of aches and pains approach. Within minutes of telling me I was banned from ever mentioning my MD she was complaining of how terrible she felt! She also put on the most appalling attention seeking show of how ill she was whenever she visited her mother in the cancer ward before she died - to the point of collaring Doctors en route to granny and getting them to see her first...

I have four younger siblings who are all worshipped and fawned over which only makes her hostility and criticism all the more obvious. I know we only get one mother and I would hate to spoil my relationship with my siblings, but how do I go about protecting myself from the poisonous attacks and my crushing need to feel loved by her?

sorry - tried to cut it down a bit!

I have read through the thread now - phew, rather a lot to take in...

I can relate to the hating Christmas. My parents are both remarried so I split the day between the two. Two years ago my stepfather (father of my 3 youngest siblings) put my suitcase in the car and drove the car up to the front door after lunch saying that I needed to go home so that they could have "family time". My son was in floods of tears and I was pretty upset too. my mother didn't even say goodbye. When I confronted her about it a few weeks later she told me I was lying. They have always put huge emphasis on family time that patently excludes me and have done since I was about 12.

Oh, Asteria, I am shocked by the things your mother is saying - I am so sorry to hear she is doing these things.

And the Christmas stuff too sounds very upsetting. I hate Christmas, it was a Christmas issue that brought me to this thread, it's a great time of year for happy people but doubly hard for those of us with less than advert standard relatives.

How old are your younger siblings - is it a long time to wait until they are old enough and independent so you can see them without seeing your mum?

Asteria, I am sorry that you are going through this. I am not very good at saying the right things but I do know that there are people here who are sooo amazing at giving you a push in the right direction and fantastic advice.

I get vertigo attacks. With one last year I was walking home with the kids and I ended up lying in the middle of the road. According to my mother I have a drink problem. She ends up making me feel that I do!

You are not the only one who feels like this. I could punch my mother into next week.

I love Christmas, but that's only since I had my own children. I spent too many Christmases doing the washing up, being excluded and not getting presents. After I left home, I was told I could go back for christmas, after dinner and I had to help with the washing up. I didn't go.

Duvet - my siblings are 15,19,20 and 28 - my DS adores them and would be devastated if we cut any contact. Sadly walking away is not an option - I am a single parent and have no contact with the father's side at all. My DS is 9 and family is really important to him. I need to just learn how to accept this and try to protect myself from it more.

Asteria I am sorry you've had to endure such terrible behaviour from your mother. It's awful. Could you not have your siblings come visit you so you can still keep in touch but avoid seeing your mother? I literally live around the corner from my mother, and I couldn't see how I could avoid her. She use to always time it so she would drive past where we live when I took DD to school. She use to walk her dog past us and just "drop by". But once I was determined to avoid her, it was a lot easier than I expected it to. I think once I had accepted it within myself that it was okay to minimise contact, then I didn't worry as much. Easier said than done, I know.

I am also another who hates Christmas. The past couple of years I have been getting better with it, and this year I'm actually looking forward to it because I know it's just going to be me, DP and DD. We're also having DP's best friend and his DP come over for lunch, so I know it'll be fun. I'm doing everything I can to exclude my mother from it this year. The past couple of years I managed to avoid seeing her on Christmas day, but we would go round Boxing Day and I'd wonder why I bothered. DP is unfortunately working Boxing Day so I've already planned for me and DD to go into London so we can go find Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross. If we're in during the day, I know my mother will be stopping by which I don't want. Particularly if DP isn't going to be there. The same with DD's birthday, I'm going to take her out all evening just so we won't be home. Sucks that I feel I need to go through all this just to avoid her, but I'd rather do that than be miserable on these special occasions.

Bear, I have tried to cut her out but like some glutton for punishment I caved and ran back to her. I think that if I was in a stable relationship then it would be an entirely different matter - I don't have anyone but my family and I couldn't survive without them. If my father was a lot close then it would be a different matter, but he lives over an hour away and I struggle with phones at the moment (hearing is shite).

I had a massive snot and tear fuelled rant at her this morning. She played the "poor me" card brilliantly and tried to turn it all around on to me, saying that i had continued to make a mess of my life even after leaving home by having such destructive relationships. I pointed out that after being pushed aside at the age of 5 by my father and then 12 by my mother,I was desperate for any sort of attention/love and fell into the first arms that opened. She was hugely offended when I described how it had felt growing up "looking through the window at a happy family I wasn't part of" - somehow it was all my fault, however she couldn't answer why a child was allowed to feel like that.

I said that I didn't want to keep dwelling on the past as it was done, however I needed some help to move on and build a future as constantly putting me down and undermining me (she actually said "yes I do undermine you, but that is only because you are incapable of doing anything yourself" nice...) was never going to let me grow and become a functional adult capable of good relationships. I plan to be utterly charming and give her no reason to criticise - whilst ignoring the criticism - in future. fingers crossed

We've all been there, running back. When my DD was younger, I also relied heavily on my mother's help after splitting with DD's father when she was still a baby. I regret it deeply now, but at the time, I had no choice. I had a breakdown when DD was very young so my mother had to take care of the both of us, and I had another about 5 years ago which was triggered by her. It was during the recovery of that, that I realised I needed to distance myself.

Can you detach yourself emotionally from her? Difficult I know, but if you do it in small doses, it'll help you in the longrun. Could your siblings help, the ones in their twenties? Have you also thought about counselling to be able to talk through your past and your thoughts to someone that is outside the circle?

Hi everyone. I'm struggling so much today. Went visit narc parents at weekend and told them that DP and I are not going to visit at Xmas, we're going to his folks instead. There were no big dramatics and I know intellectually that what I'm doing is perfectly reasonable, it's not up to me to make sure they have a good Xmas etc etc but I feel like I am drowning in guilt today. I sobbed on the plane home yesterday, feeling like I was abandoning them and breaking their hearts and being a Bad Daughter. I know this is rubbish, I would have no difficulty reassuring a friend of mine if she were going through this but oh god, the guilt!

Why is it so goddamn hard to hold onto my own happiness? Why do I always feel weighed down by, and responsible for, their misery? Really not feeling good today

JR

(((josierosie)))))

You are undoubtedly feeling guilty because your narc parents have trained you over the years and well to boot to be their supply and to feel responsible for their actions. You though do understand that you are not responsible for them and it is NOT your fault they are this way, their own families did that for them.

Also children now adults who were and remain victims of such toxic dysfunctional parents often have FOG i.e fear, obligation, guilt.

Do Christmas your way and stick to your decision, you will feel a lot happier for doing so. I'm on holiday for Christmas so will avoid my disinterested parents, my mad as a box of frogs ILs and narc manchild BIL - Result:)!!.

:( it is difficult. I know what you mean about the guilt. It's ridiculous how much it can affect you. You are not being a bad daughter, you are an adult and you have every right to spend your Christmas however you want to. I'd like to think "normal" parents feel that way but I know mine doesn't. I think the best way to battle the guilt is focus on the good things about you saying no, about how you and your family are going to spend it together, and you're going to see the inlaws. Think about what you're going to be doing. Think about how you can enjoy Christmas and see how happy your family will be. In a couple of days hopefully you'll feel better as the guilt lessens. I know it takes me a couple of days to shake myself out of it. Hugs to you x

Thank you so much Attila and Bear. Attila, that FOG anagram makes so much sense to me - it's not just the guilt, it's also the fear, the absolute dread deep down that I am doing the wrong thing and will be punished and am a Bad Person for doing so. There's a huge difference (thanks to psychotherapy) between what I know in my head to be true and what I feel deep down, which is very scary, but at least I have the skills to know what I am feeling and why. I am definitely 100% going to go ahead with our plans. I know that if I did spend Xmas with my parents, I would be wondering why the hell I was putting myself through it after just a couple of hours.

Do either of you know of a good book about helping to manage the guilt? My therapist is wonderful and I have a session with her tomorrow but I would like to do some reading in my own time so I can learn to manage it
Thanks again

Hi All, and welcome to the newcomers (and any lurkers)

I am exhausted. I mentioned on the last thread that I was gearing up to tell my aunt and uncle (who I love and have a good relationship with) that I am having a hard time dealing with my parents/narc Mom at the moment, and that I hope they will accept my feelings, since I know that they love my Mom too and have their own loving relationship with her. I have been dreading this for months, out of fear of losing family members who don't understand and who might balk at children distancing themselves from their parents (as all the books warn you).

Well, they understand!

What's more, they've been waiting for months for me to speak to them about it since they sensed that I was being iffy with my Mom. In fact, it turns out that ever since I left stbxh, they have been waiting to see if I would make the connection between my self-hatred issues and the way my mother raised me. My Mom's sister has similar difficulties to me in how to deal with my Mom, it turns out (she's been covering it really well, as I never suspected!) so it was incredibly validating. She gave me more data on my Mom's childhood, and on our common ancestors, which helped me build and temper the multi-generational picture. It was great to hear them speak in their own words about how they perceive her, and to find it echoes my own experience (and the narc description) so much: self-absorption, lack of empathy, etc. So it's not just me, hooray, I'm not crazy and I'm not a black sheep! It also helped to have them also speak of how much they love my Mom and Dad, and why, despite their difficult behaviour, as I love them for the same reasons, but my anger has been obscuring it for a while.

They assured me that there is nothing I could do, ever, to lose their love.

I've been steeling myself for months to speak to them, and have prepared myself for the the possibility that I might lose them. I am so utterly, utterly exhausted with the emotion of it all. But so incredibly pleased that I had a better reaction from them than I had ever dreamed of.

I still haven't tackled my parents, nor am I clear on how I am going to handle Christmas or any confrontations, but speaking to my aunt and uncle is something I wanted to do first. They trust me to forge my own path and make my own choices in how I deal with my parents, and nothing I do will change their opinion of me. They are wonderful people.

What I hadn't realised is that they are now in a difficult position, since my Mom in trying to cast blame on anyone but herself is beginning to form the opinion that they have mounted me against her. But they were quick to tell me that that's their own battle to fight and that they are big enough to deal with my Mom where it concerns their own relationship with her, and that I need only concentrate on doing what I feel is right in my dealings with her.

This is a bit of an essay. Too tired to edit down, sorry.

Love to you all!

'So it's not just me, hooray, I'm not crazy and I'm not a black sheep!'

What a fantastic feeling that is! How fabulous to hear that someone you love and respect trusts you and reasures you that they will love you no matter what Wallow in it, bathe in it for as long as you can - we all need all the validation we can get!

Well done you for having the guts to speak to your aunt and uncle Puppy - that could have gone very differently I'm sure and it must have been very scary for you. I know what you mean about how exhausting all this emotion is, it catches up with me and just floors me sometimes. I'm so happy for you

P A R T Y
at Puppy's place!

Streamers, horns, light show!

That is just fantastic news. It is so essential to have an elightened witness, as your aunt and uncle are for you. I am very happy for you that you have them.

That's a great boost for you Puppy, I'm chuffed at your news.

It is quite amazing when realising not everyone takes our parents' side. I was once spoken to by an old family friend who said, rather bluntly, I never understood why your mum did what she did and I can't think how it must have been for you. That was a shocker for me - I'd assumed every single other adult thought I was a difficult, crazy, unlovable child too.

Enjoy the love of your aunt and uncle too, that really shone out in your post.

Josie read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Highly recommended on this thread.

Puppy Well done!! I am so pleased for you that it went well. You must be so happy to have them on your side.

I'm really sorry to just come on over here but I really need to vent my frustration and anger!
My father and his parents are pretty toxic and incredibly narcissistic. I've pretty much cut my grand parents out my life because I just couldn't hack it any longer.
My father... I've accepted it, I don't see him very often and try to keep my distance. I can't not see him because no doubt I wouldn't see my mother either and I adore her!
I haven't posted here in a long time but today, I just cannot believe it.
It's my mum's birthday, dad should be working but is apparently too poorly today, he sounded ok when he answered the house phone this morning.
Mum was meant to be coming over as my boys want to see nanny on her birthday and help open her presents etc.
She just called to say dad has now gone to bed blocked his manual car in so she can't get her automatic out, she doesn't know how to drive a manual. So she is stuck there basically in her birthday. She is worn out with him she doesn't react I am fuming. I just am so ashamed he is my father and they are my grandparents. They have titles with stereotypes that they don't live up to. They are just people I am unfortunately related to.

I don't know what I want from this, just someone to sympathise I guess. DP has a lovely family so is just completely baffled and has n

...no answers.
Thanks for reading.

Sorry to just jump in like this (am a lurker), but PHO, could your mother not come over in a taxi/bus? Or is it too far? My dad would do things like your dad has done, so it really strikes a chord with me. My mum was always too scared to defy him, so would never have jumped in a cab though.

PreHeatedOven how terrible for you and your mum :( and how selfish of your father to be like that! Are your parents quite far away that she couldn't walk/use public transport? Could you go to her but meet her somewhere rather than go to the house?