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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

garlicBread · 01/11/2011 18:18

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 16:48

their rage is not anger....it is terror - Thanks for highlighting this, gc, it's worth repeating.

I can imagine what it's like not to feel your feelings. I've been numbing myself for a very long time. When my 'real' self finally started kicking back, prompted by double-layered abuse that exceeded my iron tolerance, I had to run. I ran a lot, any time of night or day, in whatever clothes & shoes I had on. I went to the gym and did an hour of weights every day. I did dance classes, where the bodywork made cry and I didn't know why. I was vaguely aware that all my activity was due to a build-up of 'feelings', but didn't know how to access them - and felt I shouldn't.

I still need a conscious practice to experience and identify my emotions. It still scares me a bit.

What you and TMSB wrote, above, about the Narcissist's fragile identity, is the reason why I maintain friendly relations with my mum and those of my sibs whose actions conflict with their self-image (ie, I think they're disordered.) I do not want to be responsible for shattering them. I don't lie - if they try to push for approval on a behaviour I reject, I've found I know how to say something they won't 'hear' but makes them change tack. Perhaps they prefer to optimise their supply from me by sticking to their acceptable fronts: I don't know and don't care.

I'm a bit fed up with them all needing my approval (as long as it doesn't require any effort on their part) but, these days, contact is so sparse it's easier to play along. When they start being abnormally interested in talking with me, I just don't return calls. Thank goodness for caller display Wink

Again, I should stress that there's no one best approach for all: with your ex-mother, gc, I think no contact is the only way to preserve your sanity. Had I been younger when I started this stuff, I may have chosen no contact at all. As things stand - Mum's quite old and the others are going through major life changes - it seems more compassionate all round to build thick walls with small gates!

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 18:18

But do you not think at the age of 65, parents are not going to change their attitude? They are a product of their upbringing and the only way to deal with the situation is our response to them?

I do quite a bit of sport and we are told about putting our worries and past failures in a room and locking that room and looking into that room knowing that they are locked away. I try to do the same thing with my parents but a little bit of me always wants to give them the benefit of doubt. They then proceed to let me down. Obviously if I comment upon their actions I am either drunk or depressedConfused

A slight aside they really pissed me off when I ran my first half marathon in a very fast time. (DH got a bike and cycled around the course cheering me on which was lovely) We went back to my folks afterwards to pick up the kids and they did not mention or even ask how it went!

Today I have come to the conclusion that they are both bonkers. They are who they are, and of course I feel terribly sad and mourn the parents I wish I had but I cannot change them and have no desire to.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 18:27

If I gave the impression I thought anybody was going to change, it was unintentional! 65 isn't too old, btw, but that decision always has to be chosen by the individual for their own sake.

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 18:38

Do you know what Garlic...I think/believe that my saviour has been my singing...it was the safe outlet for giant emotions, through the songs...and I would choose songs to sing which were always pertinent to the feeling at the time. I had people in tears sometimes, in my audiences, it could be that moving. (Yes there is a barrel load of jokes there, but this is not the time or the place)

droves · 16/11/2011 19:20

Gobby , wow ! You are so lucky to be so talented .
I'm glad you had an "escape" , to keep you going .

(goes back to lurking )

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 19:25

Wow from me, too Grin

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 19:39

I know lots of people that that is applicable to...which is dead sad. But so many much more gifted than me, have found it an escape route, and often, sadly to something much worse...because the expectation of how life and people treat you is still the same....from Judy Garland to I dunno...pick your favourite. Sometimes I think being a relative failure has been a blessing.

TooManyStuffedBirds · 16/11/2011 19:44

Thanks for the book link, gobbycow, I'll get it.
Thanks, also, for anger, nay, terror...offers another piece of the puzzle for me with regards to my toxic sister.

droves · 16/11/2011 19:47

Gobby , stop that negative thinking right now . It's your toxic legacy talking.
You are not a relative failure , you are a tiny success.

You can sing , and do it for the escapism and just the fun of it.
Doing something you enjoy and are clearly good at , makes you a success in my eyes at least Smile

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 20:00

Blimey...this thread NEVER ceases to amaze me with the insight and wisdom in ALL the posters. :-)

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 20:21

Hi all, sorry to be all "me me me" again but I really need help. I'm suddenly really doubting myself. I'm going to see my solicitor tomorrow and I'm writing up neatly my points and my side of things.

As I was writing what the reasons were for ceasing contact in the first place, it felt very juvenile. I feel like if I tell them this tomorrow, they'll raise their eyebrows at me and say "this is all because of that? You're clearly wasting all of our time and just let the woman see your child".

The reason I cut contact at the time was because my mother had been telling DD I was lazy, and didn't do anything fun with her, or if I tell DD to do something or tell her off, that DD should just ignore me. Also when she was going to take DD to the cinema, DD said she wanted me to come, but mother said no without a reason or anything, and this really upset DD. Also the last thing I remember on that day was mother telling me she wanted to see DD again soon, so I said to her about the following weekend when we were suppose to all go round to hers for lunch which was planned. She said that it wasn't the same as when I'm there I ruin their time together.

I know it's not juvenile, and it all goes back to my own childhood as well, but I don't really want to discuss my childhood with the solicitor in fear that they may use that and discuss it with my mother and then for her to deny it, because she will, and my sister will back her up though she knows it happened.

I don't know what to do.

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 21:43

Also, I just reread the letter and noticed something I hadn't taken in before. She wants to have DD overnight once every 2 weeks and afterschool once a week...

I'm just sat here crying now because I feel so trapped.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 22:05

Are you still here, Bear? Turn the letter face down. Slow, deep breaths please.

You feel small because you're officially standing up to your mother, therefore you feel like a delinquent child.

You are not a child.

You're a grown-up. List some things that prove your adulthood. Driving license? Bank account with your own name on it? Credit card, yippee!? Been abroad by yourself, go to the dentist on your own, what else? Hah, you ARE a grown-up! See? Stand up and see how tall you are.

You have your OWN daughter!

You're protecting YOUR daughter from the exact same bullying that made you feel scared.

That's an excellent thing.

And you can do it, because YOU are a grown-up and YOU know how to protect a child.

Now write that letter. And don't pull any punches.

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 22:11

All I can say is, that you are not juvenile. By posting on here you have shown to many people that you care.

My parents are totally bonkers (but not wanting to be crude) but fuck 'em.

I give you good hugs and nice thoughts.

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:16

Hey garlic, I am. Thank you. I keep trying to remember that, and reminding myself. Just feeling angry and upset all over again though I was okay over the past couple of days.

I'm trying my hardest to protect her, but I feel like I'm going to be beaten down until I have nothing left. My mother doesn't care about me in this at all.

I've wrote out my points, also looked up times my mother saw DD before contact was cut, and contact was roughly twice a month and possible an overnight stay, so I think what she's asking for is out of line.

I'm also in two minds about this all as well. My friend says I should just play ball and say that I'm happy for her and DD to have a relationship and try to work something out that suits me best. But most of me wants to go in there and say I want nothing to do with her.

I wish I could win the lottery and move away from here. I know that's running away in some ways but I just want as much distance apart from her and the rest of my family as I can.

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:17

Thank you Teslaedison!

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 22:19

Oh gawd

You feel small because you're officially standing up to your mother, therefore you feel like a delinquent child.

Too true, too true.

Bur isn't my job as a mother to give my daughter confidence to make her fly. (Corny I know!)

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:20

It is very true. Sums up exactly how I feel.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 22:24

You know, it's perfectly reasonable to show how your mother belittled and controlled you as a child - the effects it had on you - how you see her adopting the same tactics with DD, using a child to exert control. It's perfectly rational, as an adult and the girl's mother, to show why you feel DD needs protection from her and that you've already tried to compromise. You have facilitated access, yet the woman is still prepared to seek legal action to secure more. This in itself is evidence of her willingness to distress the child and her mother 9your) in order to gain control.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 22:25

the child and her mother (you) - lack of vodka flow to fingers Wink

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:34

Thanks garlic. I will. I keep reminding myself as to how my counsellor reacted when I told her about how I was treated as a child and then how she has been with DD. She was very shocked, so I keep reminding myself that nothing about this is okay. I also keep trying to remind myself that the person I am seeing actually deals specifically in family law, so this kind of thing is something they will have seen before, I'm hoping anyway. I know it's not even about her getting to see DD, it's all about the control, but like we said before, I do feel like I'm a delinquent child, and noone will believe me or listen to me.

I'm hoping I'll come out of there tomorrow and wonder why I got so worked up about meeting them, lol.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 22:38

You'll feel exhilarated, I bet!

Validation is there for you. All you have to do is tell the truth.

xx

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:45

I will do. I have everything written down that I need, so about why contact stopped, about all the texts/letters that she has sent me during that time, my answer to different things said in the letter from her solicitor and a record of the visits she had with DD before the contact. Also things like how she is undermining me by going through all this, although in the letter she states that she isn't undermining me Hmm

But thank you! I shall update you once I've been in and seen what they have to say. x

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 22:48

Well done. The mere fact that she's done this shows she's doing it for her own gratification, not DD. She's outed herself, now all you have to do is shut the door behind her.

Hope it goes well. Please do update! x

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 22:50

Let's hope so! Thanks :) x

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