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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

garlicBread · 01/11/2011 18:18

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
beatenbyayellowteacup · 15/11/2011 21:58

Thanks puppy. Tonight is not that night, I'm afraid. I just need to be honest and say I have no energy for the fight (to be happy, optimistic, enjoy life) tonight.

The black dog is paying a visit, the bastard.

Night all.

duvetdayplease · 15/11/2011 22:10

Puppy - yes, it's odd when someone says 'I can really see why you'd feel sad/stressed/worried/whatever' instead of just saying 'well, if you just look at it this way you'll see it's all actually your fault so you have no right to feel whatever'!

Teacup - sorry about the black dog, Sometimes the down times are unavoidable but doesn't mean they'll last long hopefully. I really hope the dog heads off soon. Take care.

Bear1984 · 16/11/2011 09:37

Hope you're okay teacup and last night wasn't too stressful for you!

duvet and puppy I find the same, it always takes me my surprise.

I've noticed something about myself over the last 6 months. I've started being myself more. I went to a seminar yesterday where 3 professionals in my industry were talking, and they're very wellknown. So I made myself go say hi and have a chat rather than just going to my seat and waiting. I ended up being a blabbering mess really as I was a bit like "omg I'm actually talking to you" but I was able to be myself despite not knowing these people, and also with people who were attending. It felt like such a breakthrough that it was like "hey this is me, no hiding, no nothing. This is me, a real dork, who rambles and may make you wish I'd never come over and started talking to you, but hello!!" I always worried that people would feel really weird around me or awkward, as that's what I'm use to, but when people were engaging and asking about me, it just felt amazing. It felt like I'm actually a real person (as bizarre as that sounds).

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 16/11/2011 09:48

Smile @ Bear

It's wonderful, isn't it?

And you know what? Lots of people will already have recognised (and love) the real you. You just needed the confidence and freedom to get there yourself. Now you've met you and realise that you're really really lovely, actually!

These days, I feel dynamic and full of love and thoughtfulness, and I'm liking that version of me. And it turns out that other people - the good people, not the tear-you-down abusers who were my primary love interests - have seen me as a positive and smart and outgoing person all along. I just never saw it myself, until now.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 16/11/2011 09:58

teacup sorry to hear you're down, but at least you recognise that it's the black dog, and not you. Settle down with him for a bit and see what he has to tell you - he's there, after all. But you know that he will slope off eventually.

duvetdayplease · 16/11/2011 10:40

I was wondering what you tell people about how things are with your family? I have a very old friend coming over, a schoolfriend. Obviously she's known forever that my mum is not going to win any prizes, but I don't know if I want to tell her the whole sorry tale of the last couple of weeks.

I think I feel ashamed, like somehow it must be my fault that I'm the one who can't stand the family dynamics anymore.

Have you told people that you're not in touch/have problems with your parents/families? Are people usually understanding? I read something somewhere about how hard it is to admit one wasn't mothered properly, and I feel that so strongly, I feel so embarrassed to admit my mum didn't/doesn't love me in the way other people's mums do.

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 11:28

Hello duvet. I am completely honest and open these days, about my pitiful excuse for a family.

It has astonished me, in my openness, to find out just how many other people have gone through something similar. Really. It seems, like any taboo, the moment the bad spell is broken, sunlight comes pouring out of people...."yeah mine were like that, I keep away now"....no melodrama, it's just a fact of so many people's lives.

This is part of how the dysfunction works and keeps people locked in. Often the currency of these families, is secrecy, and paranoia....don't like strangers knowing our business etc etc. That's why it is very brave, and incredibly validating when you do start to talk openly.

The thing that has astounded me, was that people could see with their own eyes what was going on, and couldn't have said anything at the time! I have found out, for example, that my "mother" launched a verbal attack on a friend of mine, in my home, completely out of the blue. He hadn't felt able to tell me that before, and I was not aware of it up until then.

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 11:40

Hello. I have lurked here for a while and please can I have some wise words?

I don't get on with my mother and I don't even like her. After reading much advice here I stopped ringing her as it is always my fault and I just don't want it anymore.

She has this really annoying habit of emailing our daughter and arranging to do things with her. (Don't have a problem with that, just because I can't stand my mother doesn't mean DD can't get on with her) I email my mother and she either doesn't reply or emails a reply to DD.

Now I don't know if I am being stupid, but last night she sent an email to DD asking her to get tickets for the Christmas show at school. DD can't get these tickets as someone has to pay for them. I sent a text to my mother saying that it is annoying that she emails DD to do stuff when I need to know about it. This morning, hysterics how it is my fault etc. I spoke to my dad and he sees where I am coming from and he doesn't understand why I wont talk to my mother. I told him that I find her VERY difficult and I just don't want the stress anymore. He then said that she makes his life difficult as well.

I don't really know what I am saying here but my life is sooo much better without her in it. Am I being a bit too 'touchy' about the lastest thing she has done?

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 11:57

Welcome, Tesla. No, YANBU. She may be trying to up the stakes by moving her contact with DD into your area (school.) Assuming you gave the reason for your text - paid admission - SWBU to throw a fit; she could have simply offered to pay!

If you don't mind her going to the show, tell DD to ask her for the ticket money. If you don't want her there - which would be understandable if there's only one showing - you could either tell DD you prefer to watch her by yourself/just with DH, or tell your mother straight out.

I feel a bit sorry for your dad. Have you and he ever had an adult heart-to-heart about his marriage? How was he while you were growing up?

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 12:19

No I didn't give a reason for my text, just that I was fed up of her arranging things through DD and somehow magically I would know. Could be seen as being a bit aggressive I suppose.

I don't mind my parents going to the show but is is the way she is going about it is what really gets me. For example, last year she arranged to come an see DD in a show, we didn't know anything about this, and then chucked a wobbly as we send DD off with the chaperone. I am not telepathic.

I just don't understand why a grown woman would act in this manner. It just seems weird. I am supposed to bend over backwards for her(through my wonderful use of telepathy) and if I don't, it's my fault. Just don't get it. Anyway she has a compliant DIL now, so I thought I was out of the picture. Obviously not!

Had a nice chat with my dad and he says that 'I am so much like my mother'! 'No I am not' I said, he sort of snorted and went 'yes you are'. I just let the matter drop as I know I am not.

I have always been the 'difficult' one. I am not really, I am me and not some compliant child anymore. I do feel sorry for my dad as he just wants a quiet life, but I cannot take on responsibility for him allowing her to be a complete bitch to him.

Oh god reading it back I sound like a complete bitch, but... I just don't know why my mother always gets my back up. It is a lot easier when she is out of the picture. Sounds awful doesn't it. I hope in twenty years time our DD wont be here typing the same thing.

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 12:43

You don't sound like a complete bitch. You sound like someone who has, quite rightly got utterly pissed off with being invisible!

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 12:44

And being told "who you are" and "what you are like" is completely infuriating. Your reaction is totally normal.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 16/11/2011 13:13

duvet most of my friends are incomprehending or drop into awkward silence when I mention my issues with my parents. The "Bad Mommy" taboo is so very strong.

But, like gobby, I've had great reactions - and conversations - with those among my friends who also have difficult or inadequate parents, as a result of being open about it.

Gobby, thanks for reminding me that it is not OK to tell someone "who they are". I obviously got a lot of that and still do, but it was also a useful reminder to myself, as just now I have been fantasizing about telling my mother: "It would be funny if it weren't so sad that you hated your own MIL so much and tried to protect us from her, since you and she are exactly the same person." Indeed, in order to be a fair person I need to stick to "I" statements about those feelings of mine.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 13:14

Nope, you're not a bitch. Your mother's bonkers, simple as.

I agree your father's marriage is not your problem; he's a grown-up, supposedly. It's unkind of him to 'define' you. I'm glad you recognise that and ignore it.

It sounds like your mother only knows how to get things done by manipulation. Must be very tiring for all concerned - it's wearing me out, just reading it! How does DD cope? She must find it all very confusing?

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 16/11/2011 13:22

Tesla your story does strike fear in my heart, though, because I've also always been compared to my mother by - well, my mother herself - and lived my life believing it was true, same as her repeated remonstrances that I am "stubborn" and "difficult" and "wilful".

I have only recently realised that the stubborn and difficult and wilful tags don't in fact fit, but I'm still not rid of my belief and fear that I am like my mother.

I am very impressed that you were able to tell your father that you are not like your mother, and to let the matter drop on the strength of your own self-knowledge. Kudos to you.

TooManyStuffedBirds · 16/11/2011 13:35

Hi Tesla,
It strikes me that your mother is treating you as if you are invisible.
As well as your dad, but to a lesser extent perhaps.

Control issues.

She is done with you (as you won't participate for her anymore-well done!)and moving on to try her luck with the next generation, your dd.

The hysterics are simple shame, guilt trips, -pick the flavor of the day off the menu of usual manipulations.

You are a separate, respectable individual with your own identity and especially-some of them have a hard time with this one- your very own brain.

I am glad for you that you have created boundaries and distance for yourself. I will suggest that, at some point, you consider boundaries for your dd as she might start treating you the same way gm does. In an age appropriate way, perhaps you could debrief her on the social dynamics of respect, and point out that her gm is not respecting you.

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 14:02

Well no, that's true about being defined. When someone defines you, they don't accept who you REALLY are and once again you become invisible. It's horrible.

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 14:12

Thank you for your words of wisdom. I have only got to where I am through reading other peoples' experiences here and to which I am grateful.

To be honest I do not mind being treated like I am invisible, at least there is no communication between me and my parents. What I do mind is, if you are going to treat me like I don't exist, don't shower me with hysterics when I don't come running after you have decided to communicate with me.

TooManyStuffedBirds I never really thought about my mother transferring her issues to our DD. Thank you, this is something I will be aware off. I have read some of her emails to DD and they make me want to throw up with the over the top effusiveness.

I just feel sad that I simply cannot stand my mother when I love my kids so much.

Thanks.

garlicbutter · 16/11/2011 14:13

Puppy - of course your mother will perceive you as stubborn and wilful, as you choose not be an extension of her self! In some respects, those are great qualities to be celebrated Grin

Teslaedison · 16/11/2011 14:18

gobbycow Both of my parents do not accept me for who I am, which is sad but I have my own family now. If we didn't have the kids I would not be in contact with them, well maybe my dad. I have my own interests and friends and I do not need nor want them in my life. Maybe it would be interesting to see who they think I am... or then again I really don't care. Just don't push your issues on to me, they are not wanted nor deserved.

babyhammock · 16/11/2011 14:19

I think by saying you are just like you mother he is excusing the fact that he is clearly enabling her behaviour towards you.. like lumping you both in the same basket makes it ok Hmm

And yes what gobby said about someone defining you like that making you invisible again is so true :(

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/11/2011 14:39

Tesla

You have every right to be angry at the pair of them.

I would suggest your mother could well be personality disordered. Emotionally healthy people do not use such manipulation and show a complete disregard for boundaries.

I would be very careful re your mother and DD; she could well use your DD to get back at you her "errant daughter" and I would limit all e-mail contact as of now. Infact I'd block your mother's email address to DDs email account. Toxic parents more often than not make toxic grandparents as well.

I woul dnot let your Dad off the hook; like many men who live in dysfunctional families he is the "bystander" who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He has also failed you abjectly as a parent because he has not protected you from the excesses of her behaviour.

TooManyStuffedBirds · 16/11/2011 15:00

Some musings on healthy selfishness; it is a tricky dynamic.

When we, ahem, finally assert ourselves...
and get the responses of further degradations, labels, finger pointing, all the way to full blown tantrums, or character assassinations...

I think it is a fundamental failure of the abusive ones to respect another person .

The retorts are not about us. We are still invisible and their anger comes because their needed supply of the phychological reflection is no longer a superior image. They still don't see the real us. They can only have their interpretation, anything else and their house of cards will easily collapse.

Being selfish enough to put your mental health ahead of the needs of an abusive person is a good thing, no matter the relationship. This is you acting for you, not using someone else (entangling your actions with their actions) for your mental health. The abusive ones can not see this; they can not see someone stand alone because that is such a foreign concept to them.

The name calling-"you are just like your mother" is a reflexive comment with no thought, no truth, and is a last gasp in their losing battle to cause as much damage through doubt as they can, "put you back in your place". Another attempt at a pathetic power play, or to preserve the status quo of, for example, you shielding your father. Tell him to pound sand next time.

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 16:05

www.amazon.co.uk/Narcissism-Denial-True-Alexander-Lowen/dp/0743255437/ref=pd_ybh_5?pf_rd_p=138755991&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_

Posting this link again, because this book explains it so amazingly well! Abuse is the polar opposite of respect.

You cannot exist...because they don't! There minds and bodies are disconnected, and they only exist as an image that they project to the outside world. That's why it is a house of cards, that's why they get so terrified when challenged...because if you challenge the image, you challenge THEIR identity, so their rage is not anger....it is terror. That's why it's so incomprehensible! I can't begin to imagine how it feels (there see!) to not FEEL your own feelings, from your own body...but they don't!

gobbycow · 16/11/2011 16:05

Their not there.

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