"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

teacup My inkling when I read about your father's statements now, and his actions (and consequences) in the past re: corporal punishment, is that he doth protest too much... I think he is banging on about this today to pre-empt any criticism of his actions, and the fact that they led to his son running away from home.

It may be denial because he knows deep down it is wrong. Or it may just be warding off criticism because, as a person with a wounded ego, he wouldn't be able to handle it.

My own narc mother loves repeating this about Dr Spock: "I bought the book to see what I could learn, and at the start of the book Dr Spock says that all parents make mistakes. So I thought 'that's all right then' and never read any further."

She has repeated this to me countless times. I now realize that this is her own pre-emptive defense against any criticism I might ever make about her parenting (...and boy do I have a lot to make!). She too, as a narc protecting her pitiful ego, just cannot handle criticism, and this is her way of ensuring that she can deflect it wrt parenting mistakes.

If I wasn't certain already that, as a narc, she would be unable to hear me out, this Spock story of hers certainly confirms that there is no point in me ever having any kind of confrontation/baring my feelings with her.

You know puppy I think you might be right. That thought occurred to me too. I just can't see any other way around it. I don't see how he, of all people, can justify corporal punishment. And he - like your mum - has mentioned this topic at repeated intervals throughout my living memory, so could well be defensive.

Your mother's comments could have been said by my mother btw. Bloody hell, they follow a script, don't they.

Yes they do, but that's because the mechanics of what's going on are so simple (dealing with childhood wound to the ego by putting others down - oh look: children, what a fantastic captive target! - and deflecting any criticism at all cost because puny wounded ego can't take it).

Oh, and an update on my telling my Dad I don't like receiving orders: he has now e-mailed me essentially thanking me and saying sorry!

Damn. This assertiveness thing is even more rewarding than I thought!

Wow puppy great news re your dad's response! Good for you, and good for him too.

What to conquer next?!

...well, his e-mail did contain the classic "your mother says that it's my fault because I express myself badly in English and I must have meant to say "Please" when I said "Now."".... said not at all sarcastically. Because what my mother says MUST be true. Especially if it's a statement putting him down.

Ahh. That's sad. I guess he's worked out the way to survive...

So pleased to hear that puppy. I'm glad you got a good response from him although that's sad to hear as well in regards to what your mother has been saying to him.

teacup I think that it seems like he's kind of defending his actions, but possibly also being in denial like puppy said. How frustrating for you though.

So I've got my dear mother coming tomorrow... God knows how that's going to go. I'm just going to avoid her as best as I can, although I'm sure she'll want to speak to me either to warn me about the solicitor letter or say "if you just agree to x, y and z, I can make it all go away" ...

Bear - hold your ground.

I will teacup I'm going to avoid her pretty much, and if she asks to speak to me, I'll say I can't talk to her until I've spoken to my solicitor. Rereading the letter today, I noticed it said that my mother believes that she is not undermining me as a parent. Well I believe this whole fiasco is doing just that, so she doesn't have an effing leg to stand on (still ragey)

Excellent answer, prepared in advance at home

Good luck. Not surprised you are ragey but keep the energy for strength when you need it, if you can.

Good luck Bear. Your mother will undoubtedly try to pressure you in some way. I think that remaining as unemotional and non-committal as possible is indeed the way to go (punch a pillow once she's gone if you have to). I think your instinct to just tell her that you can't talk until you've spoken to your solicitor is exactly right. Keep repeating that one sentence like a broken record if she keeps pressing! It's an adequate response to anything she has to say on the topic.

Denial of the True Self

This is a real eye opener. It's relatively easy to read, and goes deeeeep.

Link didn't work properly...will try again.

www.amazon.co.uk/Narcissism-Denial-True-Alexander-Lowen/dp/0743255437/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321175482&sr=1-1

Free pages, and the book is only £4.30 something.

bear why does your mother have contact with your dd, when you don't want her to....for very good and valid reasons? Why are there solicitors etc involved. She has no rights to contact. If you don't want her to, don't.

I KNOW that that is easier said than done, but that's how it is, really.

My mother wouldn't dare these days...it would land her and my sisters in so much hot water, and I wouldn't give a shit about negatively affecting their narcissistic image to the world...I tell it like it is, and like it is, is not nice.

These people create their own circumstance....you are not responsible.

Fine words, maybe, but worth pondering. I still cry a lot...I am not as "tough" as that just came across, but it doesn't change the facts.

If I knew back then what I know now...My God...the damage that these people do, it's terrifying. And the more I read, and discover, the more I KNOW that I am right to keep my children as far away from these damaged people as possible.

I have been engulfed in a swarm of narcissists, all my life, and married two...they pass it on, if you're not careful....they got it from their families...and goldenchild/scapegoat and all roles in between, only serve to disturb the development of children's precious little identities. And on it goes.....

Hi all, managed to avoid talking to my mum so that's something. DD didn't get upset when she left so she can't be too "emotionally affected" by this... But whilst here, she rang my sister so she could speak to DD, and said about her going round to hers I had to really stop DP from saying anything to her as he is also very angry with what is happening.

gobby I stopped contact but allowed it to happen again as at the time, there was talk of solicitors and courts etc, and a friend who knows someone that had this happen to, said I should allow contact again otherwise it could be taken out of my hands. According to the solicitors, because my mum use to have regular contact and paid for DD's ballet lessons () that contact should be made regular. Waiting to speak to my solicitor on Thursday to see what exactly can be done and what this could lead to.

It's really affecting me at the moment though. I keep making myself busy because when I'm not, I just get angry or upset. I can't sleep properly either. I ended up crying last night to DP and saying I'm terrified she will win. I am, I really really am. She's not liked that I haven't played by her rules, so this is what she'll do. She'll do whatever she can to get her way.

I also wish I knew years ago what I know now. I would have done something about it sooner. I want to move far away from here so then she can't keep trying to control me and my DD.

Blimey, I've been reading through some of these stories open-mouthed .

Bear - hope that your dd is OK and you get some answers at school tomorrow. I agree about documenting everything for the solicitor, what a nightmare

Teacup - my mother sounds very similar to your father in her views on corporal punishment, trotting out the old 'if you got the cane in school, you got another one when you got home and a good thing it was too' line, despite hating her own father for the beatings he dished out to her, her brother and her mother. Why would this be a good thing in any world ?

Phish - your dd sounds fabulous and very like ds1. Naturally, my mother really doesn't like it when he's not compliant and agreeing with her every word. She likes to criticise him in his hearing which I hate, but when he's doing what she wants, she's his biggest fan. Conditional love which sounds like my childhood in a nutshell .

I'm lucky in that my mum doesn't contact me very often, particularly as she now has the lovely compliant DIL she always dreamed of. The poor girl now replaces her disappointing daughter in her affections, which is fine by me. I never get to speak to my (enabler) dad without mum there. Even on the phone it's 'hang on, I'll ask/get your mother' .

Some of the coldness is creeping back in now, as she realises that Christmas will not be exactly as she has it at home and that the children will be getting more Christmas treats than she thinks is appropriate.

Oops, sorry for the essay !

Funtime never apologise here!

What is it about people who have negative experiences of beatings (my dad's dad was physically abusive and was physically abused himself) then justify them? Glad to hear that your mother doesn't bother to contact you very often. Does make it a lot easier - mine can barely bother to say hello when I call. I don't mind in that it makes it easier, but it does still hurt a little bit if I'm honest.

Thanks teacup, apologising for my existence seems to be a hard habit to break .

I understand why my mother is how she is. She grew up with a father who'd served in the far east in WW2 and came back to a country and family he barely recognised. He tried to assert his authority with increasing violence and her mother turned on the children too in the end, probably as a form of self preservation. She's emotionally stunted as a result.

I understand it, but I'm coming to realise that I don't have to put up with it .

This not seeing my family is so odd, yet also so calm.

I can see all these things I do that are a bit odd, and they date back to NEVER being free to express anger/sadness/disappointment.

On Sunday, we received some really bad customer service. I complained in a polite way. But ever since I have had this vague sense that I did a VERY BAD THING expressing myself. I felt fear and guilt, towards a stranger who was really rude to me. I'm well trained!

I have bitten 6 of my fingers/nails to bleeding tonight.

Is it ok to say I am not enjoying my life?!

agh

teacup it's ok to say it. it's also ok to start enjoying your life, and believing that you deserve to.

duvetday I hear you. Do you also get that feeling of surprise when people respond to something you've said, like "OMG they were actually listening! I'm not used to that." ?