"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Got an appointment for Thursday. Currently going through my diary to write down times she has visited or spoken to DD. Also writing down the things she has said to DD and what DD has told me. Also going through the letter and writing down different responses to each section, such as the "affecting DD emotionally" bullshit. I'm so ashamed to believe I am related to her. How dare she when she has contact with her! I'm hoping that the solictor I see will at least be able to point that out.

Feeling terrible now. Anger's slowly wearing off and is being filled with upset and hurt instead. Sorry for hijacking the thread! I just feel even more alone now. I don't want this horrible woman in mine or DD's life and it feels like I'm being forced to. It's like I'm constantly being punished for something that I haven't even done wrong for. Just like my childhood.

Hi. I'm jumping in rudely with a personal epiphany - ignore me, Bear :)

I just woke up with this one!
My life and opportunities have been severely held back by weird problem I've never been able to understand. In a group tasked with solving a problem, I make an excellent motivator/co-ordinator, have loads of ideas and inspire others. But I don't take charge. I yield to whomever adopts the leadership role. This also extends to my personal life, where I'm surrounded by problems but don't feel able to put their solutions into practice. I've long been aware this is a form of learned helplessness but, without understanding it, have felt powerless to do anything about it.

It all comes down to two of Dad's favourite sayings:
"Do as I say."
"You're not here to think, you're here to follow orders."
Net result: An adult with poor executive function. When someone else stands up to give orders, I do as they say. When there is no 'officer in charge', I've resorted to an inner critic.

This totally explains why, as I've been making friends with my inner critics, I've sunk ever deeper into a state of inaction regarding practical issues in real life. I've been waiting for orders, which never came!

Yippee! I don't need orders! When faced with problems and puzzles, I no longer need permission to solve them! Okay, it might take a while for this to filter through into action - or maybe it's won't! - but, bloody hell. Parental programming runs deep. Now, as soon as I dare (!), I'm free of this very damaging program. I'm so excited!

Hi Bear, sorry to hear you're feeling upset and that you've been made to fight a battle. I think under the anger there's bound to be sadness. I prefer anger I think as it's energising, the sadness is harder. I am joining you in sadness today, you are not alone dealing with this kind of shit.

I've had a horrid email from my sister2 today. It was shouty and said I need to look at my own behaviour. Ha ha ha - as if I don't obsess about my own behaviour all the time anyway!

The thing I don't know is whether to try to explain. There were three things in this saga that made me go 'stuff it' and tell them I wanted out.

One of them was my Mum saying she didn't want to see sister2 much as she's annoying (actually that's a nice way of saying what my Mum said). I just thought, you know what, she's a person who's had a really hard year, and she's your daughter and I hate you for not making more effort. And I don't want to have that kind of mother, because she'll just say similar things about me.

I don't understand why they all maintain everything is my fault. I'm gutted really. I want to tell Sis2 what Mum said, but it feels too mean to do it.

Lol garlic. I feel the same actually. Well done with this discovering it!

duvet, sorry to hear about the email you got and that you're also feeling sad. It sucks. I was also always to blame within the family. I remember as a kid being blamed for things that I wasn't even a part of or even in the room when it happened, like a fight between my siblings. I personally feel that trying to explain why you feel the way you feel just falls on deaf ears as they're too busy focusing on why they're right and not opening up or considering the chance that could in fact be wrong.

garlic, your epiphany has sparked off one for me too so THANK YOU! I often get myself into situations where I 'should' do something (e.g. go running 3 times a week), then I don't do the thing I should do, then I tell people that I'm feeling guilty for not doing it, then then they me 'go on, just do it, don't be so rubbish etc etc', then I thrive off the feeling that they are all wrong and bullies and I'm left feeling very self-righteous that I'm refusing to cave to their pressure.
This is definitely to do with being ordered and expected to do stuff by my parents (nothing sexual or physical) and not feeling that I had any right of reply whatsoever. So I would do what I was expected to and internalise all the discussion and rebellion. I think my current behaviour is letting the rebellion out one little bit at a time, like letting the air out of a balloon with a little 'pfft'.

I'm so sorry we're in this position garlic but I'm glad we're both having a similar epiphany I've been feeling really down this week because even though therapy is still helping, I felt like I hadn't had a 'revelation' in a while. Yay for epiphanies!

I know what you're saying about them not listening. Everyone has gone into a massive huff and so now I'm to blame for upsetting them, although if they hadn't left me out I wouldn't have been upset and then they wouldn't have been upset about me being upset.... Do you know, it makes my brain buzz. I'm so tired of trying to work if it actually is all my fault.

I think the way it works is if you upset a sister that's ok. But if you upset mother by allowing her to become aware you are upset with your sister, then that's not ok. It all comes down to Mum at the end of the day. I think? Anyway, answers on a postcard please, there is a prize of two sisters and a pair of parents for anyone who can work out how it works in my family.

It's mental.

It sounds like your sister2 is as bad as your mother, particularly without contemplating as to why you are upset. I bet she would be if it was the other way round! I'd ignore the email if I were you, but that's just me. I think it could easily end up sucking you in otherwise.

My brain also hurts and I'm tired. I feel really lost at the moment, I keep walking around my home and just walking into a room, looking round and having no idea why I went in there.

Sorry i'm going to jump in and rant:

My mum came to stay to look after my son when i was ill and 36 weeks pg. I had my bp taken and it was high cos she was here, i had it taken again the day after and it was normal as she had left them -i it just goes to show that these nasty people really do make us ill,

Then i struggled to get baby clothes out of the garage for my sister who was nagging me to give to my mum to take back with her. Instead she took my washing home with her. In a bag labled with baby clothes 0-3 months - my sisters kids are 7 months old. Mum also took two other bags of washing with her instead of the clothes i was giving to my sister.

So told sister of the mistake but she still went round and got the bags of clothes and went thru them and said she would send the baby cloths 0-3 and 3-6 months back in post but she would keep my son's dirty washing as it was 2-3 and my son is 2.5 yo for her childern to grow into

DH hit the roof at her cheek and has now decided to drive the 90 miles there, pick all three bags up and then drive the 90 miles back after being awake from 5.30am and working all day, when i'm 36/37 weeks pg and could go into labour at any time now just because my mum took the wrong bags home and didn't cheek them before she left.

Her exsues is that she didn't have her glasses on and she thought she had the right one's gerr. But then for my sister to get them and go thru them when she know they were not for her and then to try and claim the clothes is fucking stupid.

If i go into labour and my DH is over there cos they cba to drive over here or pay to post them back i think i might just want to kill them.

I feel so stupid for having her here and trying to help a horrible bitch of a sister.

When i told her on the phone that DH would pick them up she tryed to make me feel guilty for not providing her children with clothes so i said "They are your children and your resposibility to care for them not me" and she still tryed to say how having twins is so much hard work and she gets no help. Why can she not understand that everyone has a hard life and that is what she chose.

It is not my fucking responsibility to clothe my DN

I have vented but i'm still so angry i just dont need this when i'm about to go into labour. I really do hate them.

They sound like classic narcs cheeptrick - EVERYTHING is ALWAYS about them. You just don't come into it. No it's not your responsibility to clothe her child, you're right. It's easily said but you do need to put yourself first here, especially at 37 weeks pregnant. It's really worrying that your blood pressure was so high when your mum was around
Would it do any good to put your foot down with your sister and insist that she posts the clothes back asap because you need them? If you think it would lead to a row and more stress for you, I would avoid it to be honest - let poor DH go and pick the clothes up so at least you have what you need. I know it's hardly the best time for this but I would really think about some counselling/therapy to help you deal with them - that's not a judgement at all, these sorts of people are extremely tough and stressful to deal with and I find I need extra help to enable me to be stronger in dealing with my own family.
Hope you get a chance to have a rest this weekend. Keep venting on here - it's really therapeutic!

Just a quick message but have noone else to turn to at moment as DP is at work but just found out that 3 boys were hitting and kicking my DD at school. I feel awful and so upset and can't believe it. I feel like I'm letting her down so badly as a mother who should be protecting her. This day can't get any worse :(

just can't read and run, but have a sick toddler on my lap so I'll have to be quick.

You poor thing Bear, how horrible for DD. Does the school know about it? You must be distraught.

Give her all the love you have and resolve to sort it out for her on Monday.

Oh Bear, what an awful day for you

Is DD okay in herself? Maybe have a special weekend with her, lots of love and snuggling up together, and make sure she knows that no-one should hurt her.

What are the school doing about it?

It nearly breaks my heart if DD1 says no-one played with her- if someone had hurt her I'd be beyond upset and angry too.

I've been to my Mum's and I'm still not certain about my brothers as I couldn't ask them outright, maybe when I get them at my house. I am sure they get the odd smack, but how hard/ whereabouts I couldn't say.

It all went okay, but I feel that my Mum doesn't really like DD1 very much, because she is difficult to deal with at times (very emotional, tends to cry if she doesn't get her own way, wants to be in charge, very strong-willed and argumentative- oops should also add that she is lovely and funny and sweet and loving too, she's not just all those 'bad' things) my Mum isn't hostile to her, but constantly says stuff to me about her. I think she prefers DD2 who is not so volatile.

I always feel like a shit parent when I am at their house- because I don't yell (much) and I put DD1 on the step if she needs disciplining. It's not how it's done there!

Feel a bit tearful now- it's so hard to reconcile my parents with the 'abuse' that happened. I still feel like I'm over-reacting and should just get over it- but even my counsellor said it was pretty much inevitable that I'd get depressed with a past like that.

I'm getting flashes of being able to stand up to my Mum, and say things that she would disagree with. For instance, I gave her back a photo she had put in album for me, it was a picture of me aged 7 and I could see how sad I was. She asked why I din't like the photo- was it the dress I was wearing? I said no, it was just a horrible day and she looked suprised and said 'well you were okay for most of the day.' All I remember of it is SD whacking me on the arm because I leaned against his suit jacket (which was draped over the back of a chair-I then sat in the chair). I ran off and hid in the toilets crying, an auntie and uncle found me and all I could say was 'why doesn't SD love me?' Then in the evening hearing my Mum give a table of strangers the full history of my Dad leaving (basically just slagging him off). It was hideous.

Yet when the dog was put down and he knew I was upset (Mum was working), he let me stay up late and made me a warm drink and looked after me I feel almost like I don't know what's real.

Good lord this has turned out so long, feel free to ignore it's just good to get some of it out.

Waily hope your little one feels better soon.

Thanks Phish and Waily, hope your DC feels better soon!

DD said she told her teacher, but I'm going in on Monday anyway as I feel that DD may have just said she told the teacher but hasn't, as I would like to think I would have been informed if the teacher was aware of it! DD seems okay and have been making it a fun evening for her to keep her mind off it, as well as telling her that she's done the right thing in telling me and I will sort it out for her.

Phish, so sorry to hear that. How terrible for you. Like your counsellor has said, you will get upset and feel down over the past. I've been suffering from that as well. My mum use to also slag my dad off all the time too.

Bear- I'm sure that school would have informed you if they knew? Good idea to go in and have a word on Monday. I'm glad she seems okay, and she must feel reassured that she's got you on her side.

It's horrible when one parent slags off the other isn't it? Mum used to tell me things like oh you're so lazy like your dad, you never do anything just like your dad, crap with money just like him etc etc. She was constantly comparing me to someone she obviously despised- no wonder I feel so crap about myself and am always apologising for myself. Whereas my Dad never said anything bad about my Mum- though he had no real reason to complain about her.

I've just had a bit of a weird moment- I get really upset sometimes when I'm on my own at night (H does 2 night shifts a week). Tonight I had looked out of the window with the light on, as I could hear a funny noise. Then I had a panic attack as I thought that someone (a man, a burglar) could have seen me looking out, and would know I was alone and vulnerable and break into my house. This goes back to being a kid in an area that felt unsafe (crime) and staying awake at night to listen out for danger, but being paranoid that dangerous people would see me looking out and want to harm me. I've been scared of the dark as long as I can remember- it seems to me bad things happen in the dark and it doesn't feel safe.

I've calmed down now and am going to watch some telly in bed for a bit.

Apologies for another essay- it's theraputic this writing it all down and actually being believed.

Aww Phish. My DP works nights so I know what you mean. I scare myself silly sometimes as well, if I hear noises. I end up sleeping with the light on sometimes lol. Glad you feeling calmer now though. Hopefully telly will make you feel a bit better and take your mind off it.

Guys, I can make you all feel a bit better and less wimpy by admitting that I was scared of the dark until I was 28. And I had to sleep with the light on. Now it amazes me that I can get up to go to the loo in the middle of the night and not bother to turn the light on!

I think it's to do with feeling insecure and just 'not safe' in general. Especially if parts of your childhood was chaotic, or dangerous, or you were not protected.

Bear, I am so sorry to hear about your day from hell . I am pretty sure also that school would have contacted you about said incident-bloody nuisance when its friday and you have to wait till Monday. You are in no way letting your dd down-you sound like a fab mum to me! Do not let your mother start calling again till this is sorted out. Stick to your guns,you are doing the right thing! She started this business and really upset you in process. Although I do think it may ,as you said, work out for the best in the long run with regard to sticking to agreed times etc. Try not to worry too much with regard to dd-it will get sorted Monday I'm sure! You need so I'm sending you a big virtual glass! Cheers!

Sorry Bear, did strikethrough for your name instead of bold. Ooops1 too much here I think.

Lol thumbelina. Thanks. It really has been the day from hell! And typically I started my diet this week so had no chocolate or anything in to make me feel better! I had a Muller Corner with the chocolate and vanilla balls instead to cheer me up, lol! I'm feeling bit better now that the shock of it has passed. I'm not that surprised it's come to this. My mother is very selfish, and this makes it very clear. For all she knows, I could have been waiting to see her and then talk about DD going round or having more contact in the new year not a chance in hell.

I'm going to tell my solicitor about how I asked her for space to be able to calm down and work things out but she didn't, and that even with the visits she has now, she tried to change it to 3 weeks rather than every 4 weeks, and it was mentioned in the letter from her solicitor, and how I never agreed to that as we haven't spoken since she mentioned it in a letter, and I also have a text message from her saying that she's going to come round on xx date because that's 4 weeks gone the evening of the date the letter was sent. I've written my list of dates she has seen DD and when she has called. I'm going to say that if she hadn't kept pushing me and calling me, then this would have been resolved long ago and she would have had continued regular contact like she had before if she had just allowed me some space which she didn't. I still have all the text messages she has sent me since this all started, so I can show that to prove she has texted me at least twice a week since. I'm also going to try and see if I can get a list of times she has called me, but I think that might be a little more difficult. I don't feel upset anymore, just angry, and I'm going to use that anger to play this game my way and beat her at it because sooner or later, she's going to lose!

Actually, I think my sister's partly behind this. I've stopped complete contact between her DD and my DD. In fact over the last few years, the only time her or her DD got to see mine was when DD was over at my mum's. So I reckon she's playing a big part behind this so if I'm forced to let DD go to my mum's, then she gets to see her.

I think everything documented Bear in a calm, clear ,concise way for your meeting will be helpful. Its probably good that your appt.is a week away as your anger will have abated a little and you will be clearer in your head about the issue. I know if it was me and I had the meeting with solicitor ,say tomorrow, I would be spitting fire at the poor solicitor and not doing myself any favours. I am off to bed now so night-night to anyone whos awake. ( I am so pissed off here as its so windy that the satellite dish has blown down and I have no tv-can you credit it? Yet another problem to sort as dh is working away till next week. Everytime he goes away something breaks-last time it was the car.Time before it was the heating. Pig sick of it.)

Hello everyone, and hugs all round.

This thread is so active at the moment! I feel for every one of you. But having read through the last few pages I missed while I was away and busy with work, what comes across - along with the obvious anger and hurt - is the fact that all of us are aware of what is going on, what is being done to us, and that we know what is right - both in terms of how we deserve to be treated, but also in terms of how we should act in order to set ourselves apart from the parental manipulation.

So well done all.

I have had a mini-breakthrough of my own: I replied to my Dad's latest "we love you we miss you send us news" e-mail in a short, pleasant e-mail about my trip, with nothing personal in it, and I also stated that I would be too busy to call this week. Then I saw I had received another e-mail from him in the meantime, that basically ordered me to call: "Call us. Now."

I was furious - my gut told me so - and I replied in one sentence that I understand they may have been worried, but I do not appreciate receiving orders.

It felt so good! There was no FOG holding me back! I knew I was making a reasonable statement of my boundaries, which I am entitled to make! No regrets at all.

Both my landline and my cell phone have been ringing off the hook since then... I'm not picking up because I don't want to. But it makes my belly churn to know they're calling. Telling them where I stand re: ordering me about felt great, but knowing they are still desperate to rope me back into my role feels horrible.

I don't want to go home for Christmas. I think that's going to be the next battle.

Bit of guilt to admit, still: my parents did cuddle me loads growing up, unlike most of you. They definitely showed me a lot of affection. So - like most Stately Homers - I am feeling self-doubting about my feelings because my experience wasn't as bad as yours. They are just people who, for reasons of their own, were inadequate parents to me, despite the undeniable good qualities they also possess. I do believe I will be able to interact with them neutrally once I process my anger. It's just that the length of that process may cause fireworks before I'm done, since they don't like the distance I'm creating now at all.

Wow this thread is active. Puppy - you know this already but just to reiterate: your experiences of your parents are not any more or less valid or real just because other people have had different (and I'm not using the word 'worse') experiences.

Please don't feel the need to respond, just have to rant.

I rang Dad this week for a chat, and it was lovely at the start because for the first time he seemed to actually listen to me and stuff about my life, rather than tell me endless (and I mean endless, this can last up to 40 mins on a daily basis if I'm around) stories about his work (he retired 20 years ago) and how much people love him. Obviously this is because he is married to a narc and felt so unloved, but her treatment of him has improved a bit recently so freed him up to listen to someone else.

Anyway, we get onto how evil Dr Spock's ideas were (why? how?) and how we can't smack children anymore in schools, and how this has caused the decline of our society, all because people are scared of looking like bad parents. All this child-centred parenting simply means messed up, loose-moralled adults, of course. I can't bear this moral panic he gets into (and I work in Child Protection in schools, so it really pisses me off that he bangs on about something he really doesn't know about).

Anyway, I thought about it. This comes from the man who beat his young son (aged 10 - 13) with a belt (in tears apparently, whatever) until he ran away for home and didn't come back for ten years. I thought - assumed - that he might feel guilty about the way he messed up his son's life, but no! He still holds that corporal punishment is necessary and bewails the decline of physical punishment.

In so many ways he is lovely, patient and generous, but what the hell??