"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Hello to all the newbies!

I'm still catching up, but I just wanted to recommend again the book "When you and your mother can't be friends" , which is one of the links at the start of this thread. I've had it on my shelf for ages without reading it, but I had some time to really delve into it during lots of travelling downtime these past few days, and I've found it really very useful.

I find it more measured than "Toxic Parents", very relevant to my own experience, and also resonating very much with what I want from this process: the author focuses on working through first awareness, then anger, and finally acceptance, and has a very useful discussion of what constitutes appropriate "forgiveness".

I'm not all the way to the end yet, but so far it gets the thumbs up!

I identified with the Deserter, Super-Achiever, and Angel out of the 5 models of daughters of inadequate mothers she gives, and I also could see how I might easily become the Smotherer model of inadequate mother. The author is very compassionate but straightforward about the what makes each of the types of inadequate mothers, what makes each of the types of emotionally abused daughters, and the weaknesses of each. That compassion - and the warnings about weaknesses - makes it easy to identify and understand which particular issues we still carry and risk passing on to the next generation. Since it's one of my fears - passing on my issues - it helps to identify the specific issues I personally need to watch out for, rather than just be aware that I have Issues.

Also meant to say duvet that I recognise your problem with the sibling hierarchy thing. My older db is usually in the right, regardless of what he does and younger db and I share the blame. As we get older, top or bottom dog depends on what we've done (or not done) to enhance dm's life (married, had dc, let her have her own way, etc.)

...and I also need a venting place and any advice regarding my current dilemma wrt my parents.

They keep calling. They keep writing. And I keep not picking up their calls or replying to their e-mails - which now have titles like "We miss you!!!!" on them.

I am, after several months of depression, getting back into my life with gusto. I'm taking care of myself, I'm excited by my work, I'm seeing lots of friends, I'm doing interesting things, I'm sparking lots of interest in other people due to my palpable enthusiasm and renewed vigour... but then I see my parents' name on my mobile phone or my inbox, and my stomach knots, and I just don't know how to deal with it.

I just want them to Go Away, but I don't actually want to tell them that directly. I feel like their calls and e-mails are taints on the shiny new life I'm enjoying at the moment. And I can't identify my own feelings very well; I don't fully understand what's holding me back from picking up the phone or replying.

Often I avoid things for ages, and become irrationally afraid of them, and I always feel better when I eventually tackle it. But what is it that I'm avoiding tackling by avoiding their calls?

• Am I avoiding having to tell them upfront that I don't want contact?
• Or am I avoiding the start of a new, emotionally detached way of communicating with them, because it's new and I'm unsure of how to go about it?
• Or am I staying away because I feel that any interaction with them is unhealthy for me, or is a surrender of sorts?

All of these sound plausible. I am so confused. What does the "authentic" me really want?

Hmm, OK here I go attempting to answer my own question, since writing things out on this thread helps so much: I think I feel all three of those feelings; they are not mutually exclusive. I do not feel safe communicating with them for now. This is obviously a difficult message to pass on to them because of the FOG. I do not feel safe talking to them, because my dominant feeling towards them is incompletely processed anger. I cannot speak to them in an emotionally detached way when I am this angry: I will only hurt myself, by leaving myself open to being hurt by them.

You know, I think I just need to tell them that bit in bold. Somebody hold the vomit bucket ready for me. Oh god this is scary.

Urrgh, I can't do it.

Read e-mail. It's from sweet, cowardly, enabler Dad. He says he misses me and loves me, and wants to know when it would be convenient to call.

I hate to hurt him, because he's spent his whole life being kicked, first by his mother, then by mine.

He won't understand/accept my reasoning, which is why I'll never bother explaining it to him, but it will hurt him if I say I find it too difficult to talk to them. My mother won't understand or accept it either, but her it will enrage to hear the same message. (A rage coming from her own hurt, I know.)

It's not my job to make them feel good. But doing something that I know will hurt them is not easy. Is it even worth it? I have knots in my stomach now from avoiding them. I'll probably have knots in my stomach from confronting them.

Exercising personal responsibility within a dysfunctional family sucks !

Hi, the beauty of this thread is that someone from the outside can assess whether what you are doing is ok or wrong. I would honestly say that if you emailed and said 'I'm sorry but I just can't speak to you right now' then that is an ok thing to do.

Yes it is sad for them. But anger is an inappropriate response, it may be natural in a way but it is not right to be angry with someone who is sad enough to have needed to get away.

I would be devastated if my children did that to me. But I would assume I needed to make some changes, I would try to find out why they felt this way, I would want to make things different.

And that is the thing about our type of parents. They don't take any responsibility for their part of the problem.

You are right - it really does suck!

I suppose it was made easy for me, as my "mother's" behaviour was SO despicable, I could never bring my self to utter a single word to her ever again. I would, if I saw her, want to punch her fucking lights out.

There, that's me expressing anger, bitch, cow, evil fucking slag.

That doesn't really help puppy does it? Sorry. :(

((()))

I remember finding the emails she had sent to h about me. I still have them, but the first time I read them was like being in freefall. I felt sick, and dizzy and so over adrenalised.

And yet I went to a consultative meeting at the school, and just got on with being sparkly. It was surreal. My memories of those few days are stark with such negative emotion and fear, and terror, and being not remotely surprised by what I'd found. In a strange way, it was a comfort to know that my instincts had been right all along.

And I'm still here, and my kids are already happier, they are standing up to the bullies in their lives. There is payback.

Does THAT help any?

I am so fucking angry. And hurt, and deflated, and angry.

My brother told my DS today that my mother and I had a falling out. He then told DS that there are always 2 sides to every story. Then he went home.
I came down from sorting out the washing to make tea, and DS said that he is really worried about something his uncle just told him. He told me what his uncle had said and asked me what had happened. He said he is really worried about her coming with us on holiday.

I told him that I had asked my mother to be mindful that it sounds like she is criticising me, and asked her to respect me as a parent. I told him how she reacted and how I reacted. I told him that there is a long history of me feeling disliked and disrespected by my mother, but that she loves me. I told him she loves him so very much and worries excessively. I wish that I had known I would be asked about this, I wish I had been prepared. DS felt that it was all his fault, which is most certainly is not his fault at all!

I'm struggling to find a reasonable explanation for my brother to have said all this but I can't find one. I did not tell DS about the argument because I want to protect him. It was not my brother's place to tell him. I also feel that him telling DS that there are 2 sides was an implied request that my explanation will not be the whole truth. Am I losing it here?

I have no-one I feel I can talk to about this. I find these situations so confusing, and tend to exhaust those around me trying to understand it all, and I've already done that once this week.

Whenever I have problems with my mother I am always left feeling that my family as I know it is in tatters, and that is how I feel right now. I have never intentionally hurt anyone in my family, never. Why do they hate me so much? Why do they feel the constant need to undermine me? Do they not want DS to be able to trust and respect the only parent he has?
I'm trying not to cry; DS would be shocked if he found me in tears. He was gutted earlier, gave me a hug and made a cup of tea. I wish I had known he was going to ask, I feel like I have rocked his world too. He said he always thought his family was great and that everyone loves each other.

Puppy I was in a similar situation to you a while ago. As I was so angered by my mum's actions towards DD, I told her to leave me alone, let me cool down because I was too angry to speak to her, and then I would speak to her when I was ready. I didn't contact her for 4 months, because she wouldn't leave me alone, she kept texting and calling and trying to follow me on Facebook and my blog. She sees DD once a month for an hour at mine, and that are the rules I've laid out. I told her I'm having nothing to do with her, that from now on, our relationship is over and she isn't my mother, and she was to speak to DP to arrange dates/times of visits. And what do you know, lots of texts and calls from her still. She even rang 4 times this evening, left me a voicemail and sent me a text. I get so angry everytime she does.

I also realised something about me yesterday. I am very very lonely. DD's at school all day during the week, DP works nights, so sleeps late into the morning/early afternoon (plus DP doesn't live with us at the moment, long story). I am self employed so I don't have a job that I can speak to other human beings in, though I am job hunting (and have been for 3 months now) and not having any luck. At the weekends when we're all home together, I am so happy, but the week just drains me and I feel miserable, and having my mother constantly pissing me off isn't helping either.

maristella How dare your brother do that!? Who does he think he is!? It sounds to me like he wanted to get at you for reacting the way you did with your mother and to make you feel guilty, and the only way to do that is through your DS. Just disgusting behaviour. Poor you and poor DS :(

My DD doesn't really know everything that goes on between me and my mother, but that's because I don't think she needs to know at her age. She knows we don't get on.

How old is your DS? I think you should definitely stop your mother from going on the holiday now. Wouldn't surprise me if it was between her and your brother that they thought it would be a good idea to tell DS.

Lots of hugs to you.

Hi Maristella

Nice of your brother NOT to drop such a bomb on you before leaving. How dare he; his actions are reprehensible. Not that he will ever apologise though to either of you; he doesn't think he's done anything wrong besides which toxic people never ever take any responsibility for their actions. Perhaps too his mother put him up to it and fed him a lot of nonsense which he has chosen to believe.

I would have no compunction about cutting the pair of them off as of now. How dare they drag your son into this, toxic people like your mother and brother will drag the next generation into it.

Do NOT go on holiday with your horrid mother either; if you do you there will be consequences for you and your DS if you do and you'll have a ruined holiday as a result because of her. I would personally take the financial hit and remove her from the booking now.

They hate you because they are toxic and you are not. You're basically not playing along with their mindgames and manipulation and they don't like it. They feel threatened by you because you're okay.

Maristella - your son is a real credit to you!.

Thanks I could use that hug! I am devastated, head in my hands, feeling completey defeated one minute and the next I am so angry, I want to smash things. I want to drink wine like it's going out of date and throw the bottles at them. I want to denounce them as my family. I'm not going to do any of those.

I completely identify with that feeling of utter loneliness. When the people who are supposed to love you the most just want to hurt you it makes you wonder doesn't it?

duvet I'm probably not in the best place to give the measured advice that you deserve, but if you are able to disconnect from your toxic relatives before they are able to hurt your DCs then please do it as soon as you can my love x

BTW experience has taught me never to leave the child/ren when toxic rellies are around because they will use the child/ren to get back at what they see as their scapegoat for their inherent ills.

Maristella - that was wrong of your brother, really he shouldn't be dragging your poor DS into it.

It does sound like guilt tripping, trying to force you to get along so your DS isn't affected. I think other relatives use the children a lot, I have this a lot from my family if I am upset with my Mum - that it is unfair on my kids. It gets to me.

that it never stops, even into adulthood. Apalling behaviour by your brother Maristella and sorry to hear that you feel so alone Bear1984.

Actually, I feel really guilty and mean that I've posted something 'nasty' about my mum outside of my dh, younger db and his wife and 2 very good friends. I feel like I've opened Pandora's box and it's all going to fall apart. She's not bad enough to cut off contact by any means, she just has to managed and not enabled and her shifting attitudes to my dc monitored. Maybe I'm being too harsh. Yes, I felt shit a lot of the time as a child but she's been behaving herself much better these last few weeks.

Oh arse, what to make of it all.

I agree with Attila. I learnt that the hard way. I now won't even allow her to speak to my DD on the phone.

Funtime that is how I have felt for the last few years, that my mother is just troubled and difficult. Please don't feel disloyal about posting, you have talked anonymously about your worries, and there is nothing wrong with that. It would be so much worse if you had posted on your facebook status for example :)

Attila thank you. I absolutely cannot let her come with us. I can't honestly say that she would return in one piece, and I will not be pushed into that position. Being completely honest I came very close to manhandling her out of the house the other day, and then when she was hesitant about opening the door I wanted to push her out and kick her away from the house. I'm not proud of that, but I don't feel like that about anyone else, apart from that shit bastard brother of mine! I knew at that moment that if she was to push me to my limit on holiday she would end up in the pool/sea/corridor, and I do not like feeling like this.

My head hurts so much. I can't believe I'm in this position

Bear - I'm sorry about the loneliness you describe. I can really empathise, I'm SAHM and sometimes it feels so empty with just me and a small child.

Do you think you want to address your loneliness, as in find ways to connect with more people? Or find ways to feel less lonely when on your own?

Do you know, this thread is hard. I feel like every other post shows me something i hadn't realised about my life, something I hadn't correctly placed. Cos I feel lonely cos I don't have a Mum, not one I can call and ask something of. Sorry, I was trying to post about Bear's loneliness and just fell into a pit of my own!

Funtimes, don't feel guilty or mean. I understand why you do, as I use to feel like that too. Don't be too harsh on yourself, because your feelings are real.

Why is it just in the last few weeks that her behaviour has improved?

maristella I have been like that with mine. I remembered it when I was in counselling. I can't remember why I was so angry, but I remember just screaming blue murder at her, and also being close to just dragging her out of my house when she refused to.

duvet don't apologise! I find that a lot as well, that when I'm replying, it's suddenly unlocked a memory or feeling I've had. I do want to do something about it, but I am painfully shy as well which doesn't help. Like DP said to me the other day after my disastrous interview, it takes me a while to warm up to people and once I know I can trust them, I can be really outgoing and bubbly. I know other people within my line of business and they often get together and invite me, but I can't because I have noone to look after DD. I can't afford a babysitter and DP works so I feel trapped a lot of the time.

Though that's reminded me about when I split with my ex and I felt lonely and I had a book that challenged it, so an example would be to eat at a restaurant on my own and embrace the fact that I was alone. I did it once and I was surprised as to how okay it felt, as I imagined I would have felt really insecure or embarrassed. I may have to see if I've still got that book.

Bear1984 - they've been on holiday, so she's been out of her little town bubble for a bit which has helped. We've had a break from each other and I think that she's missed my dc (one more than the other, but that's par for the course) and has been a bit more polite to me.

Unfortunately, I got swept up in the moment of my reformed dm and invited her and dad for Christmas Day . There will be sniffing about the dc having 'too many' presents (5 each, 2 from FC and 3 smaller ones from us) and ds1 being boisterous, having grown out of the cute baby/toddler phase. Lunch will be eaten without a word of thanks or appreciation, but it's only for a few hours so I'm hopeful and there's always gin.

Ahh I see. Unfortunately your mother will probably step back into her usual behaviour soon and you'll be back to how you felt when you first posted. Can you say that you've had to cancel on them coming round for Christmas? I've had to ban mine the past couple of years because to me, Christmas was always a miserable time of year for me, and DP knows that and knows that I actually hate Christmas, but I'm slowly starting to enjoy it since being able to just spend it with him and DD.

Mine is also polite or "apologetic" (gives me a hug, says she's sorry, but never means it, it's just a way to sweep it under the carpet) when she's missed DD and wants to see her.

That must be really hard Bear1984, such conflicting messages . My mum hasn't touched me in years and I have no memory of being cuddled. In my family you don't address stuff, you don't argue, you don't comfort each other. As long as no-one says anything to disagree with mum it should be fine .

I don't remember the last time I was cuddled as a child either. I don't remember being told I am loved.

Ok I'm going to share my toxic family xmas list with you because I need to get out of this mood.

For my darling mother: A bottle of water

For my darling brother: A wooden spoon, and some scissors should he wish to cut the umbilical cord at some point.

That felt good! What would you really like to buy your toxic 'close' family?
Self help literature is cheating.......................