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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Did he cross the line or do I need to just pull myself together?

136 replies

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 18:47

I wonder if you can give me a little perspective? Mostly I just want to tell someone but am too embarrassed to discuss this in RL. Has my dp crossed the line?

This weekend we were at the inlaws and after a fair amount of wine went to bed. The lights were off but I was playing on my phone. He started getting kissing and touching me etc. I didn't fancy it so I crossed my legs, batted him away, moved to the other side of the bed, still good natured. I then turned off the phone and tried to sleep. At which point he persisted. I said that I didn't want to, that his parents were next door and I really didn't want to. But he carried on, not roughly but still not stopping. Anyway, eventually I said it more firmly. He seemed to take this as a sign to take things further......I just lay there a bit in shock. I didn't move at all throughout it, didn't resist him but didn't participate really.

He did say, at one point "if you really don't want to just say" And I don't know why I didn't. Perhaps I felt that it would cause a scene, or that I didn't want to upset him.

I told him when we finished that he'd made me feel like a piece of meat. He was very sorry, and sorry the next morning. I told him that I didn't want to talk about it when he tried to.

I just feel a bit numb. I'm not angry with him. I just wondered what you thought? Is this a big deal, am I making a mountain out of a mole hill (not that I've said anything about it) I just feel a little numb. Normally we are very happy, I love him v. much.

OP posts:

Wamster · 31/10/2011 18:52

I think that this is a big deal. A very big deal. He had sex with you against your will. I'm sorry.

WardrobeYeti · 31/10/2011 18:52

I'm really sorry you're going through this. You don't need to pull yourself together at all. He did a terrible thing and you said no over and over again but he still carried on. As for this: "if you really don't want to just say". YOU DID SAY. You said it multiple times and then he had sex with you and he said that once he'd begun and after you'd repeatedly told him you didn't want to. He knew that you didn't want to but said that as a way of making what he was doing "okay" imo.

Anniegetyourgun · 31/10/2011 18:54

"if you really don't want to just say"? But you'd already said it twice and he didn't stop. I won't use the R-word at this point but technically, that's what it is.

Personally I think you should pull yourself together all right - and run for the hills. But if you believe he will never do that again now he knows it's unacceptable to you, maybe it's worth giving him another chance ( if you really want to).

GrownUpZombieKiller · 31/10/2011 18:55

This is a very big deal, you didn't consent to it. You said no several times and he kept going, then whilst he was assaulting you he said just say if you don't want to, despite you having said so already?

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 18:56

I didn't ever say 'no' but I did say things like 'i don't want to' 'not tonight' etc. It wasn't against my will as such, as I could have said no when I had the chance, don't you think? More, without my active participation.

It's such a relief to be talking to someone about it, have been composing this in my head all day at work. (I do tend to be rather introspective)

I am a little shocked, this is entirely out of character, he is the most caring and gentle man. Perhaps that's wine for you, we were both drunk

OP posts:

Beachcomber · 31/10/2011 18:58

It is a big deal and you are not making a mountain out of a molehill.

Your DH has sex with you against your will. Without your consent.

You have every right to be very very upset about this, on many different levels.

Hope you are ok - hugs.

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 19:00

I am fine, really am, just so nice to have some other opinions.

Ok, so he did cross the line, I can see that. And I shouldn't have let it happened, I just should have said no again when I had the chance. It's not all his fault.

So what do I do now? Pretend it never happened or talk to him about it?

OP posts:

NatashaBee · 31/10/2011 19:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 19:02

But if I said no, why did he carry on?? I don't understand why he didn't just stop???

OP posts:

Wamster · 31/10/2011 19:02

You must know yourself that what he did was unacceptable. We've all been drunk with an intimate partner and said 'no' to sex, they may try to persuade us a bit further (all reasonable but irritating) but the key point is this: they do not actually HAVE SEX with us if we have said no to it.

He 'crossed the line' by actually having sex with you. You know what he did was wrong. Hard to accept and I bet you want somebody to tell you to shrug it off.
Understandable, I am not knocking you for it. I can't help you further but I am sure others will be able to here.

HarderToKidnap · 31/10/2011 19:03

A decent man who would only want sex with you with your consent would not need to hear the actual word "no" before he stopped. Saying "I don't want to" or "not tonight", moving away, crossing your legs - this would be enough (more than enough) to show a non rapist that you weren't consenting.

Consent has to be explicitly given. You are not responsible for making sure he knows you aren't consenting. He is responsible for making sure you consent. Please don't take this on yourself. He had sex with you without your consent. That's on HIM, not you.

I don't know what you should do. I know what I would do, which would be to throw him out, get joint or single counselling whilst you evaluate your options and if he fully accepted that he had a) raped me and b) explained why and c) had enough counselling/treatment to make me feel that he understood what he'd done and wouldn't do it again, then I might take him back, if I still respected and loved him.

Beachcomber · 31/10/2011 19:03

Sweetheart it is the same thing - no enthusiastic participation/I don't want to/not tonight/no.

They all mean exactly the same thing. I imagine you didn't want to shout 'no' at your DH because you didn't want to hurt his feelings/cause a scene/have other people hear.

You clearly did not consent to sex though.

This is very seriously entitled behaviour on the part of your DH. No wonder you are upset.

The name for what happened to you is rape. I know that is a horrible word, but that is what sex with no consent is. Unfortunately it happens in couples/ supposedly loving relationships, quite a lot.

Jux · 31/10/2011 19:04

OP, what is the difference between saying "I don't want to", "not tonight" and "no"?

They all indicate the same thing very clearly.

fuzzywuzzy · 31/10/2011 19:04

You said 'I don't want to' how is that even an implied yes? It's blatently a no.

You need to talk to someone who can help you sort your thoughts out.

Personally I would leave, such a massive breach of trust is a deal breaker for me.

Malificence · 31/10/2011 19:06

If my DH had behaved the way yours did, I would never let him into my bed again, what he did was unforgivable, too much wine is no excuse.
A decent man would have stopped the very first time you said you weren't interested, unless he's very stupid he would have realised you weren't participating from the outset, I take it you don't usually just lie there and let him just use your body?.

WardrobeYeti · 31/10/2011 19:06

I have to agree with NatashaBee and the others, you did make it clear that you didn't want to have sex. Your words and your actions made it obvious. I know you might not think you did enough or that you weren't explicit about not wanting to, but everything you said "no". Verbally and in body language. You aren't responsible for the fact that he persisted, and it isn't because of you not doing enough that he did so.

bellsring · 31/10/2011 19:07

If you two weren't married and you were two people on a first, second or third date, how would it be viewed.

What will you do if he ignores your wishes the next time?

WardrobeYeti · 31/10/2011 19:07

*everything you said meant "no".

AnyPhantomFucker · 31/10/2011 19:07

what BC said

I expect you didn't make more fuss at the time out of embarassment at being overheard by his parents

You have had sex without giving consent

BC used the word...those are the terms by which he had sex on you

I am very sorry

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 19:13

I think that I know it wasn't acceptable, or I wouldn't be posting here if I'm being honest with myself. You have all confirmed my secret thoughts.

What do you think I should do? I don't fear he'll do it again, it was so out of character and in 6 years he's never shown a hint of similar behaviour.

He's a bit stressed at the moment. Partly as sometimes he worries that he won't be able to 'perform' but he always does in the end. Hence it's a sensitive subject.

I think maybe he did it as he was asserting his manliness over his performance worries, if you see what I mean. Hence he got carried away. He would ever have meant to upset/hurt me. never.

I do need to talk to him about it don't I. I really don't want to talk about it.

OP posts:

HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 31/10/2011 19:15

i am so sorry that you were raped.

you partner is a rapist.

you ave every right to make a huge deal out of this, he very obviousliy will want to play this down and pretend that you are the one with the issue but i can assure you that normal men would not do this. normal men stop when you batt him away, normal men stop when they realise that their partner doesn't want to have sex, because they know that to have sex with someone who doesn't want to, isnt sex, it is rape. normal men enjoy mutually consentual, pleasurable sex, normal men do not get off on their partner's fear. your partner is not normal, dont let him tell you that what he did was fine.

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 19:18

He was really really sorry in the morning. He knows he was in the wrong, he's not tried to imply otherwise.

OP posts:

nailak · 31/10/2011 19:18

it is not your fault, stop thinking you could have done more.

NeedABrew · 31/10/2011 19:19

I'm so sorry to read this.

I'm afraid he has hurt/upset you and you need to address this.

I know you say he's stressed - lots of us are in life, but we don't have sex with the person we love against their will. I know you say you don't fear he will do it again...but could you imagine it would have happened before this?

Un-mumsnetty-hugs to you.

Original poster

pinkcardi · 31/10/2011 19:20

Do you think I should talk to him when he comes home? I've just carried on as normal, a bit less affectionate, but I've not mentioned it.

Should I reiterate that he crossed the line, and that it can NEVER happen again? Perhaps sleep in the spare room? I don't want to break up with him, we're getting married in a few months

OP posts:

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