Did he cross the line or do I need to just pull myself together?

[pinkcardi]

I wonder if you can give me a little perspective? Mostly I just want to tell someone but am too embarrassed to discuss this in RL. Has my dp crossed the line?

This weekend we were at the inlaws and after a fair amount of wine went to bed. The lights were off but I was playing on my phone. He started getting kissing and touching me etc. I didn't fancy it so I crossed my legs, batted him away, moved to the other side of the bed, still good natured. I then turned off the phone and tried to sleep. At which point he persisted. I said that I didn't want to, that his parents were next door and I really didn't want to. But he carried on, not roughly but still not stopping. Anyway, eventually I said it more firmly. He seemed to take this as a sign to take things further......I just lay there a bit in shock. I didn't move at all throughout it, didn't resist him but didn't participate really.

He did say, at one point "if you really don't want to just say" And I don't know why I didn't. Perhaps I felt that it would cause a scene, or that I didn't want to upset him.

I told him when we finished that he'd made me feel like a piece of meat. He was very sorry, and sorry the next morning. I told him that I didn't want to talk about it when he tried to.

I just feel a bit numb. I'm not angry with him. I just wondered what you thought? Is this a big deal, am I making a mountain out of a mole hill (not that I've said anything about it) I just feel a little numb. Normally we are very happy, I love him v. much.

You shouldn't sweep it under the rug - especially as you are getting married in a few months.

If you feel like you need someone else to talk to there's Rape Crisis, a charity in the UK that offers non-judgmental advice and help for people in a range of situations including rape within marriage: www.rapecrisis.org.uk/aboutus1.php

Their freephone helpline is 0808 802 9999.

They also have a list of rape crisis centres, there may be one near you: www.rapecrisis.org.uk/centres.php

Please don't be afraid to talk to someone about this. There are resources out there that can help you sort through your feelings and have dealt with situations just like the one you've experienced.

I don't know when and how you should talk to them about this, but I do think that in situations like these what happened can get buried under silence and I don't think that should happen. It shouldn't be ignored.

You say that he is stressed. But men who do not force their partners into sex find more acceptable -although no means good, don't get me wrong- ways of relieving that stress. Drinking more alcohol, spending more time in the pub/men's club/whatever, eating more/less.
Perhaps being snappy and abrupt.

ALL of the above can be sorted out and can be overcome without damaging the relationship beyond repair. Your dp's stress has led him to rape you.

I don't think that that is sort-outable, if I am truly honest here.

Yes you should address it, especially if you're intending to get married to him -work on problems before making that commitment. If you do decide to move past this, be prepared for the fact that it might be a long journey to recovery, for example, whether it will affect how you feel about the prospect of consensual sex with him again.

Please get some support.

I would delay getting married for a long time until you have resolved this issue.

At the moment if he uses your body for his sexual pleasure against your will with no thought or care for you again then it is relatively easy to separate and go your own way.

If you are married there are a lot more things to sort out.

I was raped by my ex-fiance; I ignored it and pushing it down in my mind for months and months, and eventually I realised. I left him and I was glad of it.

Think about what you'd say to a friend who was telling you this had happened to them? Someone who rapes you does not love you, does not respect you, and - from my experience - he will do it again.

Jesus, you're not even married yet and he's behaving like this? (not to say that men behave differently when married ).

I've been with my DH for nearly 30 years and he's never forced me to have sex against my wishes, not at 18, not when drunk, not after months of no sex, never. Good men don't.

I think perhaps it all sounds so much more dramatic than I intended it to. I don't feel that I was raped. I know you will disagree with this, but really, I don't feel that the 'r' word describes it.

I will talk to him tonight. tell him how he made me feel, and that he can't ever ever repeat it. I really will. He'll be so upset, really really cut up about it.

I promise I'm not an abused women etc, I don't want you all to think that I am. I just wanted some perspective from you, and you've all be so helpful. Thank you.

You haven't made it sound more dramatic than it was. Please don't think that. If it helps you for now, then so be it, but your feelings on this will most likely change in the future - that's fine, I imagine you feel quite numb, want to go back to before this happened and looking forward to your wedding, but you need to know this is not loving behaviour.

Don't you sleep in the spare room. You aren't the one who can't be trusted.

I would be sending him back to his parents.

You have to understand, it's no coincidence he did this shortly before you're due to get married. He is relying on you being too embarrassed, not wanting to inconvenience everyone, not wanting to have to let outsiders know your troubles, to make this into the very big deal it is.

He will get worse when you are married and trapped that little bit more. And worse again when you have kids.

To do this to someone means you don't see them as a person but as a thing. Personally I don't think there's any coming back from it but if you were to try, it will take a very long time and he needs to move out, give you space and begin sorting out the mammoth issues he has that led him to do this to you.

It sounds dramatic because it is dramatic. Men who regard their partner's bodies as something they have no automatic entitlement to may make clumsy passes at their partner in bed. But as soon as that women says 'no' or indicates that sex is off the menu for that night. They accept it. Men are not saints. They may feel disappointed in not having sex. They may even slope off to the bathroom to relieve themselves sexually.
But that's all OK, really. We don't live in a sanitised world.

Please don't let him fob you off with stress being the cause of this; stress causes normal men to drink more, smoke more, do more drugs, lose concentration and get snappy and abrupt. Only men who rape are stressed into it.
What about when he is stressed next?

When you talk to him he may say "But I said we could stop if you said so and you didn't say anything"- please please ask him why he'd carried on before that when you said you didn't want to and made it clear that you didn't want to have sex. You need to get his response to that question. It's important.

And you didn't sound dramatic at all! Don't worry about that.

Thank you Wardrobe. I think he will say that. He'll think that because he said that, it's not as bad. I will push it back to him. "why did you carry on before that when I said I didn't want to?" I will also tell him how crap I feel. And that I don't understand why he'd do that, why he would carry on when I said no. That's really useful. thank you. He's home fairly soon.

Rape is a very emotive word, which is probably why people avoided using it in the early answers. I do think you should speak to rape crisis though, as whether you would class it as rape or not, they will have experienced people in a similar situation and could advise you where to go from here - what he should be doing to address the problem. I would definately be telling him that it needs sorting out before you discuss marriage any further, and it may well have an impact upon your immediate sex life, so maybe you should put that on hold until the matter is at least addressed.
What did you reply when he asked if you really didnt want to.... Nothing I am guessing - too much in shock?? Or a mumbled 'its OK' which might be why you are feeling its partly your fault? Its not your fault, you had told him indirectly by pushing him away in a jokey fashion, telling him a bit more firmly and directly that you didnt want to and why, and then completely unequivicably and he ignored you. Call that what you like, its not your fault.

He took advantage of the fact that you were at his parents' house and they were in the next room. And you wouldn't make more of a fuss.

Yes, the reason you didn't say something when he said that was because you had already told him multiple times to stop and HE IGNORED YOU. You knew there was no point.

Yes, bells. And he's going to take advantage of the fact you've spent lots of money and your family and friends are so excited about the wedding to prevent you from making this a big deal.

He is going to get very upset when he comes home. Don't be tempted to comfort him. You are the one who should be upset. The only acceptable response from him is to move out of your bedroom, where he is unable to prevent himself hurting you, and arrange to see a therapist.

Yes, you do need to talk to him (you know that)

You need to tell him something very similar to your OP:

• here is a list of all the signals that said 'no'
• here is a list of all the words that said 'no'
• yet he carried on

You know it wasn't right.
He knows it wasn't right.

Tell him that other people (even if you and he don't) would classify that as rape.

If he is stressed, if he has performance issues that is another topic completely. You and he can NEVER, never connect the two, unless you want to excuse what happened by saying he was stressed, and he wants to use stress as an excuse for not listening to what you want in the future.

So the next time he has worries about being able to get it up, when he does manage it, he will make sure he "completes" whether you consent or not

Think about what you are rationalising here

OP, you say 'he's going to be very upset'. Why are you more concerned with his feelings that your own on this?

Having performance issues does not mean that he must 'finish' what he starts with you to ensure he is functioning well.

Whatever you may or may not do tonight, you must get an answer to wardrobe's question. Do not let him deflect you from it. If he keeps harping back to his giving you an opportunity to say no, then you must ask him why it had ever got to that point when he should have stopped long before that, are you only allowed to say no on his terms?

Best of luck OP. Get emergency counselling before the wedding if you can.

Do you think he was aware of the fact that you felt uncomfortable with his parents next door and so there was a limit as to how much you would protest.

The r word does describe it, exactly, it perhaps just isn't what we - you - would think of when we think of the r word.

Rape doesn't have to be violent, or between strangers. Rape quite simply means that someone has sex with you when you haven't consented to it.

That is what happened.

I believe you - or rather, I believe that you believe it - when you say that your partner is a good person, not an abuser. I believe you when you say that you don't feel that you were raped, and can see why you say that.

But. You need to think very seriously about this.

What happened here is very serious, and you brush it under the carpet - forget about it because he is 'so upset' - at your peril.

Last night, your partner showed you that:

• he is prepared to push your boundaries time and again, until he gets what he wants
• he is prepared to stop listening to you, even when your message is CRYSTAL CLEAR, because what he's hearing isn't what he wants to hear
• he is prepared to take advantage of your reluctance to cause a scene to get his way

All that, you don't even need to mention forced sex - all that - it isn't good is it?

Do yourself, and your partner, and your future marriage, the best favour you will EVER do it.

Take this seriously. Make sure he is, indeed, upset. He needs to be. Call this what it is - what it was. RAPE.

Let him know that he has taken a big step towards trashing the most important things that will make your marriage work - trust, respect, care.

Tell him that unless he books some counselling, quick smart, so that you can discuss how and WHY this happened, your wedding is going to be postponed.

And think. Open your eyes. Do you think that any of the women who post here the details of their violent, sometimes not so violent but equally horrible, abuse, do you think any of them wouldn't have described their partners as lovely, caring, gentle, at the start of their relationships? Of course they wouldn't. So just take a minute to think, and think to the future, and take action here to make sure that you give your caring gentle partner such a fucking shock here that he never DOES end up as an abuser.

I'm trying to understand how you are excusing him, what do you think he thought he was doing OP? How is he justifying your lack of consent in his mind?

I think once you can honestly answer that you will understand what happened.

Bells - I love him, I don't want to hurt him and I know he'll be gutted when we talk but I know that I have to.

I am not excusing him. But I know that if I had said a very forceful no he would have stopped. Perhaps I'm upset that I didn't say it....does that make sense? This doesn't condone it, but I know he would have stopped. If I had just said it again I wouldn't be in this mess. Also, whilst I didn't want to, and didn't really enjoy it, my body was 'ready' for him. If you see what I mean. God, so embarrassing to say that.

I have written down what I want to say to him, and I will absolutely say it to him.